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Maybe it is climate change, but damn, no worries about California drought for years to come

By Patrick follow Patrick   2019 Feb 28, 7:52pm 3,754 views   65 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


https://www.sacbee.com/news/weather-news/article226878214.html

Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows ski resort hit 300 inches of snowfall for February, smashing monthly records at the Lake Tahoe area ski resort.

Squaw Valley came away from the most recent storm with 42 inches in 24 hours, according to the National Weather Service. The mountain smashed the previous February record by more than 100 inches, the resort reported, and the record for most snow in any month by 18 inches. Even more snow may fall before the month is out on Thursday.

As far as the two-day snowfall totals go, Boreal ski resort saw the most accumulation with 55 inches over two days, followed by 54 inches at Sugar Bowl, according to the National Weather Service.

It’s been quite a month for Lake Tahoe area resorts. Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows has received 557 inches of snow so far this season, which is more than 46 feet. At Heavenly Mountain in South Lake Tahoe, 386 inches of snow has come down so far this year.


300 inches is 25 feet.

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26   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 1, 7:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

socal2 says
We are already injecting treated wastewater into the ground to replenish aquifers and to prevent sea-water intrusion along the coasts.


Scope and scale - scope and scale - not enough to replace what is being drawn out at a faster rate.
27   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 1, 7:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

As for the no drought problem in the Great Plains...and do not forget about the Ogallala Aquifer, parts of it are already dry.

By 2050, the American Southwest and Great Plains will experience a megadrought. The drought will last 50 years, according to scientists at Cornell University. It will be similar to droughts that occurred in the region during the 12th and 13th centuries,

Irrigation uses 41% of the state's water supply. In 2014, irrigation costs resulted in higher prices for fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts. Fruit prices rose 4.8%.

The California drought cost the state an estimated $2.2 billion in 2016. Almost 17,000 farmers lost their jobs in 2014.

A 2017 study found that drought and other climate change impacts will make half of California's Central Valley no longer suitable for growing crops like apricots, peaches, plums and walnuts by 2150. That will grow to 90% by 2100.

https://www.thebalance.com/drought-definition-effects-examples-and-solutions-4157896

Without conservation efforts, a critical water source will soon go dry - Ogallala Aquifer

Every summer the US Central Plains go dry, leading farmers to tap into groundwater to irrigate sorghum, soy, cotton, wheat, and corn, and maintain large herds of cattle and hogs. As the heat rises, anxious irrigators gather to discuss whether and how they should adopt more stringent conservation measures.

They know that if they do not conserve, the Ogallala Aquifer, the source of their prosperity, will go dry. The Ogallala, also known as the High Plains Aquifer, is one of the largest underground freshwater sources in the world. It underlies an estimated 174,000 square miles of the Central Plains and holds as much water as Lake Huron. It irrigates portions of eight states, from Wyoming, South Dakota, and Nebraska in the North to Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas in the South.

https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/one-largest-aquifers-world-disappearing-because-farmers

Tapping unsustainable groundwater stores for agricultural production in the High Plains Aquifer of Kansas, projections to 2110

Groundwater provides a reliable tap to sustain agricultural production, yet persistent aquifer depletion threatens future sustainability.

The High Plains Aquifer supplies 30% of the nation’s irrigated groundwater, and the Kansas portion supports the congressional district with the highest market value for agriculture in the nation. We project groundwater declines to assess when the study area might run out of water, and comprehensively forecast the impacts of reduced pumping on corn and cattle production.

So far, 30% of the groundwater has been pumped and another 39% will be depleted over the next 50 y given existing trends. Recharge supplies 15% of current pumping and would take an average of 500–1,300 y to completely refill a depleted aquifer.

Significant declines in the region’s pumping rates will occur over the next 15–20 y given current trends, yet irrigated agricultural production might increase through 2040 because of projected increases in water use efficiencies in corn production. Water use reductions of 20% today would cut agricultural production to the levels of 15–20 y ago, the time of peak agricultural production would extend to the 2070s, and production beyond 2070 would significantly exceed that projected without reduced pumping.

Scenarios evaluate incremental reductions of current pumping by 20–80%, the latter rate approaching natural recharge. Findings substantiate that saving more water today would result in increased net production due to projected future increases in crop water use efficiencies. Society has an opportunity now to make changes with tremendous implications for future sustainability and livability.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/08/14/1220351110
28   socal2   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 1, 7:57pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag      

Kakistocracy says
Yes - it is that hard. What size is the pipe to be built ? What about the pumps needed to push that water into the existing infrastructure - are they in place ?


No - it's really not that hard. The pipe is only 54" in diameter and they installed it in about a year. It doesn't take that much pump energy as they can utilize gravity to push alot of the water to the existing water infrastructure.

The desalination project is nothing compared to the massive water works projects California built 100 years ago which are still in use today. Most of Southern California would be absolutely uninhabitable if we didn't redirect and transport water from Northern California through massive canals, dams, tunnels, pipes and pump stations.

Man made the desert bloom in California. Just like they did in Israel.

Humanity has no choice but to engineer solutions for our water supply and other environmental problems. It's absolutely doable and more sensible than thinking we can change society so we can change the weather.
29   just_passing_through   ignore (6)   2019 Mar 1, 8:31pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

socal2 says
more sensible than thinking we can change society so we can change the weather.


So much easier and cheaper to air-condition the INSIDE of the buildings instead of the OUTSIDE.
30   just_passing_through   ignore (6)   2019 Mar 1, 8:32pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Quigley says
More rain on the way this weekend. And next week as well.
I just don’t know how we will survive these drought conditions!
I’m doing my part though. I haven’t turned on my sprinklers in almost three months now!


No chit... What's a guy to do in SoCal these days with rain every weekend. I've finished my taxes and revamped my investment portfolio. It's movies I guess.
31   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 2, 12:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

socal2 says
No - it's really not that hard. The pipe is only 54" in diameter and they installed it in about a year. It doesn't take that much pump energy as they can utilize gravity to push alot of the water to the existing water infrastructure.


Yes - it really is that hard and by the way gravity pulls not pushes - just sayin. If it wasn't that hard, explain the need for a dedicated power plant to power the pumps to get that wonderful NorCal water over the mountains at the end of the Central Valley.

socal2 says
The desalination project is nothing compared to the massive water works projects California built 100 years ago which are still in use today. Most of Southern California would be absolutely uninhabitable if we didn't redirect and transport water from Northern California through massive canals, dams, tunnels, pipes and pump stations.


And grab as much as possible out of the Colorado River as well and fuck everyone else in the region - that's the true American spirit - I got mine and fuck everyone else.

socal2 says
Man made the desert bloom in California. Just like they did in Israel.


I know this will never get read by 99% of the people following this thread however should one wish to actually learn something - try reading it. The revised edition is even better than the original with updated information.



The story of the American West is the story of a relentless quest for a precious resource: water. It is a tale of rivers diverted and dammed, of political corruption and intrigue, of billion-dollar battles over water rights, of ecological and economic disaster. In his landmark book, Cadillac Desert, Marc Reisner writes of the earliest settlers, lured by the promise of paradise, and of the ruthless tactics employed by Los Angeles politicians and business interests to ensure the city's growth. He documents the bitter rivalry between two government giants, the Bureau of Reclamation and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, in the competition to transform the West. Based on more than a decade of research, Cadillac Desert is a stunning expose and a dramatic, intriguing history of the creation of an Eden--an Eden that may only be a mirage.

This edition includes a new postscript by Lawrie Mott, a former staff scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council, that updates Western water issues over the last two decades, including the long-term impact of climate change and how the region can prepare for the future.

socal2 says
Humanity has no choice but to engineer solutions for our water supply and other environmental problems. It's absolutely doable and more sensible than thinking we can change society so we can change the weather.


Better work on option two - it will cost a lot less and get faster results - that would be changing society.

Last time dude, the public as evidenced on the forum is loathe to pay for anything that involves new taxes - if that changes - than society has been changed now hasn't it ?

Read the book - study physics - it's much much harder than it looks - much.

Special treat for those who have not read the book recently, if at all, their is a section added to what happens when dams are tossed into the reengineering miracle mixture like was done in Egypt.

Spiffy shit - not good shit - but shows the fallacy of man's thinking he can alter things for the good without incurring some "unintended consequences".

Something to ponder - when the Colorado river flow falls to the point it results in bullets flying and people getting killed to see who gets that water - will that be a societal change or just another day in Los Angeles and SoCal?

Same goes for the possibility of one day California becoming two separate states and NorCal starts charging by the cubic foot or ton for that water coming down to La La land via the California aqueduct.
32   FuckCCP89   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 2, 1:07am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag      

Kakistocracy says
I know this will never get read by 99% of the people following this thread however should one wish to actually learn something - try reading it.....

Cadillac Desert is a stunning expose and a dramatic, intriguing history of the creation of an Eden--an Eden that may only be a mirage.


"Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?
33   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 2, 8:08am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Hugolas_Madurez says
"Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?



Great book - try reading it, might learn something along the way other than posting stupid comments.

Peak oil - nothing to recommend - Peak American Empire - that is doable.
34   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2019 Mar 2, 8:13am     ↓ dislike (9)   quote   flag      

Kakistocracy says
might learn something along the way other than posting stupid comments.


Speaking of stupid, hey Kaki, seems like you have a lot of time on your hands in retirement.

Enjoying going through "disliking" every one of my posts? Nice job! Feel better?

Someone has Wwaayyyy too much time on their hands....
35   socal2   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 2, 10:02am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Kakistocracy says
Read the book - study physics - it's much much harder than it looks - much.


I read the book 25 years ago while getting my degree. PBS did a good documentary on it too. It's not quite the indictment you think it is. It shows at the end of the day how people were able to engineer a paradise out of inhospitable and arid terrain capable of growing majority of the world's exotic foods and sustain some of the biggest population centers in the world.

I've been doing this business for 25+ years in SoCal. Trust me, the cost of generating desal water is not the huge cost driver in the scheme of things. It is all the existing water distribution system assets (pipes, canals, dams, pumps) let alone pensions and trains to nowhere that take up the most money.
36   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 2, 10:15am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

MrMagic says
Speaking of stupid, hey Kaki, seems like you have a lot of time on your hands in retirement.

Enjoying going through "disliking" every one of my posts? Nice job! Feel better?


Of course you know it was me without a doubt - and are able to prove your baseless allegation.

For what it is worth did give one token dislike on the comment given from Jersey just now for leveling baseless allegations which to Moi is a personal attack

Let's see the "proof" - waiting

Also in the "for what it's worth" department had Moi known it was this easy to get the respondent from Jersey wound up - Moi may have considered doing it long ago
37   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 2, 10:21am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

socal2 says
read the book 25 years ago while getting my degree. PBS did a good documentary on it too. It's not quite the indictment you think it is.


The reality is much worse.

socal2 says
I've been doing this business for 25+ years in SoCal. Trust me, the cost of generating desal water is not the huge cost driver in the scheme of things. It is all the existing water distribution system assets (pipes, canals, dams, pumps) let alone pensions and trains to nowhere that take up the most money.


Trust a trump supporter ?

Anyway congrats on the 25 years - hope you get to enjoy an early retirement and above all move out of California, life is so much better outside the Golden State - nice place to visit though.

Dealt with California for 20 years - was nice in the beginning - kind of like a blind date - then the bliss came off the affair.

Perhaps re-reading my comments - Moi said nary a peep about the DeSal plant per se, except for the small item about the taxpayers not willing/wanting to pay for it - Moi is talking about getting the water from the DeSal plant on a steady state condition over that mere 10 miles in a 59 inch pipeline.

As for the other that is preaching to the choir

Not only does the book explain how the water heist was accomplished - it also talks at length about how the state and the Central Valley is running out of water which is the more important aspect of the book.

The revised edition also talks in detail about the problems with dams that do not get any attention but which are as bad as not having enough water. There is an excellent chapter on the after effects of the Aswan Dam on the Nile River Delta

Would like to know though, how the Central Valley alone can supply the nations food considering the Central Valley supplies 8% of U.S. agricultural output (by value) and produces 1/4 of the Nation's food, including 40% of the Nation's fruits, nuts, and other table foods.

That isn't going to supply the nation let alone provide a surplus to the world.

But back to the water...going to take one hell of a lot of DeSal plants to make up the volume taken from the ground let alone replenish the water table.

•About 20% of the Nation's groundwater demand is supplied from pumping Central Valley aquifers, making it the second-most-pumped aquifer system in the U.S.

•Approximately 75% of the irrigated land in California and 17% of the Nation's irrigated land is in the Central Valley

Then there is this problem - California’s Central Valley food production found responsible for shocking amount of air pollution. What they found was that between 25 percent and 41 percent of all the nitrogen oxide emissions in the state came from farm soils where nitrogen-based fertilizers were used. It is said that the fertilizers end up simulating soil microbes that are capable of converting nitrogen, normally an essential plant nutrient, into nitrogen oxide. - courtesy of U.C. Davis

https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-02-15-californias-central-valley-food-responsible-for-shocking-air-pollution.html
38   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 2, 10:36am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Sustainability means to reduce an individual's or society's use of the Earth's natural resources, and one's personal resources. Not solving existing problems with more problems.
Can anyone really question the tight correlation btwn population growth and energy demand?


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274718268_Review_of_Fossil_Fuels_and_Future_Energy_Technologies
39   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 2, 1:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

socal2 says
Dude - I'm in the industry. I know a couple things about this topic.


What does that mean precisely ? "in the industry" ?

Sounds like it comes with an inherent bias towards a particular solution that may or may not be in the public's best interests but certainly is in the best interests of whatever solution is being promoted by a particular "industry".

socal2 says
It is not really needed east of the Rockies since they aren't under constant drought pressure.


It is under constant drought pressure and draining of the Ogallala Aquifer but then that would not be of interest to a particular "industry" since there is no money to be made there from a DeSal plant where it is not feasible.

Same with the sales pitch about 3 growing season, supply the nation's food.
40   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 2, 1:02pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

kt1652 says
Can anyone really question the tight correlation btwn population growth and energy demand?


One way to fix the problem is to stop giving aid to Africa, forbid Africans to leave, and only trade raw materials with them. Any post 1800-tech they have to make for themselves. Their own aspirin, pickup trucks, blood pressure meds, anti-HIV drugs.

It'll never happen.

Maybe putting birth control in the City Water supplies of Africa as a condition of foreign aid.
41   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 2, 1:02pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

socal2 says
We can desalinate all of the water we need. Sure it costs money and creates icky carbon emissions - but we already have the means to create all of the water we need. And desalination technology is getting better and better and will require less energy in the future.


Sales pitch or best solution for the taxpayers ?

If we can create all the water we need - why is the "industry" only concerned about coastal California.

What is the solution for the great plains and other areas with no access to salt water?

No other solutions worth looking into or only ones that benefit a particular industry or company?

Sounds like a sale pitch from any one of hundreds of vendors I have met over the years.
42   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 2, 1:05pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Hugolas_Madurez says
"Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?


Peak Oil, Manhattan/Miami Underwater, and needing SPF 5000 to go out in the sun of 2010... the Leftist versions of Illuminati Black Helicopters.

Which reminds me, what happened to the Ozone layer that was going to be completely destroyed unless we went back to 1700s standard of living?

And don't tell me about that stupid Ozone protocol. Chinese industry and emmissions went up an order of magnitude since then.
43   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 2, 1:32pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I mean this is hilarious, folks:

Ball and a team of researchers from institutions around the world wanted to more accurately measure trends in the ozone layer. For their study, they synthesized and then analyzed multiple satellite data sets of atmospheric ozone. The data cover the tropics and mid-latitudes, from 1985 through 2016. The team found ozone in the upper stratosphere has indeed rebounded since 1998. “It’s clear it's going back up,” Ball says. “This is exactly where we’d expect to see the Montreal Protocol working its best.”



If anybody thinks there isn't significantly more industrial output today...

(Chinese GDP per Capita)


Total Bullshit.

Let's see the Ozone Data from 1850 - oh, wait a minute.
44   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 2, 1:45pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

MisterLearnToCode says
Hugolas_Madurez says
"Disappearing Water"? Sounds interesting. Can you also recomment a book on "Peak Oil", while we are at it?


Peak Oil, Manhattan/Miami Underwater, and needing SPF 5000 to go out in the sun of 2010... the Leftist versions of Illuminati Black Helicopters.

Which reminds me, what happened to the Ozone layer that was going to be completely destroyed unless we went back to 1700s standard of living1

And don't tell me about that stupid Ozone protocol. Chinese industry and emmissions went up an order of magnitude since then.
The Montreal Protocol Strategic Ozone Protection. worldwide agreement to phase out ozone depleting refrigerants (R11, R12 and others) that were in widespread use and shift to (R22, R410A and R134A for cars) was perhaps the most successful environmental protection achievement ever. The Antarctic ozone hole has been basically healed. Sad, that something that is a more serious threat is politically unachievable today.
----
'Scientific observations of the rapid thinning of the ozone layer over Antarctica from the late 1970s onward—often referred to as the “ozone hole”—catalyzed international action to discontinue the use of CFCs. In 1987, the United States joined 23 other countries and the European Union to sign the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer (Montreal Protocol). This international treaty protects and restores the ozone layer by phasing out CFCs...
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-12/documents/mp30_report_final_508v3.pdf
45   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2019 Mar 2, 2:34pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Elgatouno says
That picture is crazy, and is/was a major obstacle for high speed rail in Cali.


Exactly..

Just remember, Miami is underwater because of sea water rise from Global Warming, while California is sinking because of pumping water out of the ground.

Any chance that same thing is happening in Miami with the aquifers being emptied and subsidence?

Nah... impossible, right?
46   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 2, 2:40pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Sea water, fresh water - all the same, right?
Don't quit your day job. lol
---
'Scientists from government and academia say rising sea levels caused by climate change will bring more salt water into the Delta, the hub of California’s water-delivery network. As a result, millions of gallons of fresh water will have to be flushed through the Delta, and out into the ocean, to keep salinity from inundating the massive pumping stations near Tracy. That will leave less water available for San Joaquin Valley farmers and the 19 million Southern Californians and Bay Area residents who depend on Delta water – eventually as much as 475,000 acre-feet of water each year, enough to fill Folsom Lake halfway, according to one study by the Public Policy Institute of California.'

Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article158679214.html#storylink=cpy
47   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2019 Mar 2, 2:42pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Herdingcats says
Wow 8 dislikes!


Does that include at least 6 from all your sockpuppet accounts?
48   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2019 Mar 2, 2:43pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

kt1652 says
Scientists from government and academia


You means the ones being PAID by the government to spew that hoax?
49   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 2, 2:53pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

ha, ha, the 97% of independent climate change scientist, concensus of NASA scientist, the US military strategic planners, AAAS, ACS, AGU, AMA, AMS, U.S. National Academy of Sciences , The Geological Society of America, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change ... I'm tired of typing.
Let me don my tinfoil hat.
I heard last night on AM talk show, it is the Aliens living under Antarctic ice caves that helped the Nazis, are now behind the climate change hoax.
I think I married one of them.
50   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2019 Mar 2, 2:55pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Elgatouno says
Also not sure where Miami gets it's water maybe it does pump from under it's feet or one is just pulling shit out of their ass.

Any links?


Where do you think Miami gets water for their increased population? Walmart?

Links, do a search of Miami and subsidence, they're all there.

I posted a bunch in a different GW hoax thread recently.
51   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2019 Mar 2, 2:55pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

kt1652 says
ha, ha, the 97% of independent climate change scientist, concensus of NASA scientist, the US military strategic planners, AAAS, ACS, AGU, AMA, AMS, U.S. National Academy of Sciences , The Geological Society of America, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change ... I'm tired of typing.


Dan, is that you..

Wasn't Cook the guy that claimed Manhattan would be underwater now?

oops....
52   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 2, 2:59pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

You paid me a great compliment. Besides, I have a full time job, can never do what Dan-the-man did and have a life.
53   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 2, 5:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

MrMagic says
Just remember, Miami is underwater because of sea water rise from Global Warming, while California is sinking because of pumping water out of the ground.

Any chance that same thing is happening in Miami with the aquifers being emptied and subsidence?

Nah... impossible, right?


Same thing is not happening in Miami - any soil subsidence would be more the result of the same type of phenomenon occurring in and around New Orleans and not from the Aquifers being emptied since they recharge so quickly.

The Biscayne Aquifer is an entirely different animal that what is in the Central Valley of California - it recharges very quickly from rain, not so in the Central Valley.

The aquifer is a composed up of mostly limestone and sandstone with some sands. The Biscayne Aquifer is a wedge shape of highly permeable limestone and less permeable sandstone in southeast Florida.

The Biscayne Aquifer is high susceptibility to contamination due to its exposure at the land surface and high permeable rates. The most common contaminate in the aquifer is saline water and chemicals carried by runoff into canals. During the wet season pesticides and fertilizers are use heavily and become susceptible to runoff. Other contaminates include landfills, septic tanks, sewage water treatment ponds and storm water disposal wells.

Where the aquifer is exposed at the surface or thin layers of soil allow the aquifer to response to rain rapidly. Rain, wetlands, canals are major part of recharge to the aquifer. During the wet season sheets of water move south towards the Everglades to recharge the aquifer.

http://academic.emporia.edu/schulmem/hydro/TERM%20PROJECTS/2009/Jenkins/Harry.htm

https://www.sfwmd.gov/science-data/gw-modeling

The next link talks specially about soil subsidence and the increase in flooding (400%) since 2006 - easy to understand graphics and only one page. Soil subsidence due to the city being built on swamps - aka - New Orleans.

http://www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf

Older article on the Miami flooding situation from back in 2015

Part 1 - https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article41141856.html

Part 2 - https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article41416653.html

Last August -- Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First.
https://www.bloombergquint.com/businessweek/miami-s-other-water-problem#gs.QEpwSGQr
54   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2019 Mar 2, 7:36pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Kakistocracy says
Soil subsidence due to the city being built on swamps - aka - New Orleans.

http://www.ces.fau.edu/arctic-florida/pdfs/fiaschi-wdowinski.pdf


Don't read your own links, do you:



Is the city flooding from the ocean because the land is sinking or not?

Also, try this:

...."Geological changes along the East Coast are causing land to sink along the seaboard. That’s exacerbating the flood-inducing effects of sea level rise, which has been occurring faster in the western Atlantic Ocean than elsewhere in recent years.

The study, published this month in Geophysical Research Letters, outlines a hot spot from Delaware and Maryland into northern North Carolina where the effects of groundwater pumping are compounding the sinking effects of natural processes.

Their study revealed that Hyde County — a sprawling but sparsely populated farming and wilderness municipality north of the Pamlico River — is among the region’s fastest-sinking areas, subsiding at a little more than an inch per decade.

The study shows that subsidence is occurring twice as fast now than in centuries past in a hot spot from Fredericksburg, Va. south to Charleston, which the scientists mostly blame on groundwater pumping."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sinking-atlantic-coastline-meets-rapidly-rising-seas/
55   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 3, 4:07am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

MrMagic says
Just remember, Miami is underwater because of sea water rise from Global Warming, while California is sinking because of pumping water out of the ground.

Any chance that same thing is happening in Miami with the aquifers being emptied and subsidence?

Nah... impossible, right?


Concerning the link cited in comment 59 the key word in that piece is "might" - not probable - "might" in the upper left hand corner box.

As for the conclusions comments box -3mm comes out to 0.11811024 inches and is limited to a particular area of Miami Beach.

No, overall - the city is not flooding because of soil subsidence - I read the article from the Daily Caller, try something different and yes, I read the King Tide thread. Wasn't worth commenting on.

Once again the land subsidence is not being caused by the Biscayne Aquifer being drained of groundwater since the aquifer restocks so rapidly which is not the case in the Central Valley of California.

Concerning the rest of the verbiage on comment 59 this is the tried and true PatNet formula for playing "gotcha" by changing the parameters and moving the goalposts of the discussion.

Homey didn't play that shit with MisterLearnToCode the other day and not playing it with anyone else.
56   mell   ignore (6)   2019 Mar 3, 8:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Another arctic blast coming. And we're already in March. Manbearpig! Manbearpig!
57   socal2   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 10:24am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Kakistocracy says
What does that mean precisely ? "in the industry" ?

Sounds like it comes with an inherent bias towards a particular solution that may or may not be in the public's best interests but certainly is in the best interests of whatever solution is being promoted by a particular "industry".


I work for an environmental engineering consulting firm that specializes in water and sewer rehabilitation - primarily the pipe and transport infrastructure. So I suppose I have some "special interests" in seeing money public spent on basic civilization necessities like clean water so cities can hire specialized firms like mine to help them fix their problems.

One of the many projects we are working on is trying to locate big soil voids to prevent massive sinkholes from deep 50 year old sewer lines swallowing up whole city blocks in Los Angeles. All the old concrete pipe is getting chewed to bits by the high H2S gas and recent rain storms and is at the end of it's life. Deep sewer lines are very difficult and expensive to repair or replace. We are also working on a project in San Diego to recycle over 50% of our sewage and use it for drinking water requiring new water treatment plants, pipes and pump-stations.

All I am saying is that there are so many more just run of the mill, yet massive engineering challenges facing water public works agencies every day. Building desalination plants to generate additional water is not that hard. Just dumb politics gets in the way.
58   just_passing_through   ignore (6)   2019 Mar 3, 11:30am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Some of that is slated to start a full 10 YEARS after the 2014 vote and if you read the article there is a lot of 'if else if' in it alongside 'environmental studies' and 'environmental group lawsuits'.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Once they blow some cash to shore up Lake Oroville so it's not about to fall over and flood Sacramento the Sacramento Socialists will balk faster than they do after spending 5.4 on a bullet train in the desert.
59   NoCoupForYou   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 3, 12:23pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Downtown Miami has flooded since the 1930s. South Florida crony pols constantly delay and underfund comprehensive water management solutions and have done so for almost the past century. They are always a generation behind the development.

Nothing to do with Global Warming.

Newsflash: South Florida is mostly swamp and the rest Dry/Wet Savannah that alternately is marshy then dry as a bone. Much of the coast is reclaimed Mangrove Swamp. It rests on Limestone and is mere feet about sea level.
61   HeadSet   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 4, 11:59am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Here is a real drought for you

In Cape Town, 'If It's Yellow, Let It Mellow' Is Practically Law
The South African capital’s crippling water crisis has spawned a host of new taboos and industries.
It’s 11 am on a Saturday, and both my Cape Town local mall and my bladder are pumping. After one B-grade Americano too many, I slip into the gents. Look at the state of it! Whoever went before me hasn’t just left the seat down (and wiped it too); they’ve even gone and flushed. Whatever happened to “if it’s yellow, let it mellow”?
The heady aroma of stewed urine is just one of the taboos Capetonians have turned up their noses at in response to the city’s crippling water crisis. At the height of the crisis, the city published the ultimate name-and-shame: a map of the city that showed which addresses were using the most water. Social media shaming added to the fervor, and neighbors would comment passive-aggressively about one another’s suspiciously green lawns.
City dwellers also have started to get excited about flushing No. 2s with a quarter bucket of three-day-old shower water (there’s a certain Pythagorean fun to it); embraced dirty cars and learned to live with parched lawns and half-full swimming pools. We save rinse water from washing machine loads and dish-filled sinks; even hotels have urged guests to save their shower water in buckets. It’s a whole new world … and it’s produced real change.

https://www.ozy.com/acumen/in-cape-town-if-its-yellow-let-it-mellow-is-practically-law/92468?utm_source=dd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=03042019&variable=a92f0de2a7e55f6797cd1f845edfa5ad

Now imagine how much water is saved in San Francisco when the homeless crap on the sidewalk rather than in a toilet.....
63   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 28, 4:37am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Who keeps buying California's scarce water? - Saudi Arabia !

Saudi-based Almarai owns 15,000 acres of an irrigated valley – but what business does a foreign food production company have drawing resources from a US desert?

Four hours east of Los Angeles, in a drought-stricken area of a drought-afflicted state, is a small town called Blythe where alfalfa is king. More than half of the town’s 94,000 acres are bushy blue-green fields growing the crop.

Massive industrial storehouses line the southern end of town, packed with thousands upon thousands of stacks of alfalfa bales ready to be fed to dairy cows – but not cows in California’s Central Valley or Montana’s rangelands.

Instead, the alfalfa will be fed to cows in Saudi Arabia.

The storehouses belong to Fondomonte Farms, a subsidiary of the Saudi Arabia-based company Almarai – one of the largest food production companies in the world. The company sells milk, powdered milk and packaged items such as croissants, strudels and cupcakes in supermarkets and corner stores throughout the Middle East and North Africa, and in specialty grocers throughout the US.

Each month, Fondomonte Farms loads the alfalfa on to hulking metal shipping containers destined to arrive 24 days later at a massive port stationed on the Red Sea, just outside King Abdullah City in Saudi Arabia.

With the Saudi Arabian landscape there being mostly desert and alfalfa being a water-intensive crop, growing it there has always been expensive and draining on scarce water resources, to the point that the Saudi government finally outlawed the practice in 2016. In the wake of the ban, Almarai decided to purchase land wherever it is cheap and has favorable water conditions to produce enough feed for its 93,000 cows.

In 2012, they acquired 30,000 acres of land in Argentina, and in 2014, they bought their first swath of land in Arizona. Then, in 2015, they bought 1,700 acres in Blythe – a vast, loamy, agricultural metropolis abutting the Colorado river, where everything but the alfalfa seems cast in the hue of sand. Four years later, the company owns 15,000 acres – 16% of the entire irrigated valley.

But what business does a foreign company have drawing precious resources from a US desert to offset a lack of resources halfway around the globe?

What Fondomonte Farms is doing is merely a chapter in the long story of water management in the west, one that pierces the veil on the inanities of the global supply chain – how easy it is to move a commodity like alfalfa, or for that matter lettuce or clementines or iPhones, across more than 13,000 miles of land and sea, how much we rely on these crisscrossing supply lines, and at what cost to our own natural resources.

More: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/25/california-water-drought-scarce-saudi-arabia
64   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 28, 4:43am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Governor Appoints San Joaquin Valley Grower William Lyons to New ‘Agriculture Liaison’ Position....

On February 12, California Governor Gavin Newson announced the appointment of William Lyons, 68, of Modesto, to serve in a new position — the Agriculture Liaison in the Office of the Governor.

Lyons, a San Joaquin Valley grower who has opposed increased San Joaquin River flows, has been chief executive officer of Lyons Investments Management, LLC since 1976. He previously served as Secretary of the California Department of Food and Agriculture from 1999 to 2004.

According to the Governor’s Office, “Lyons was selected as the western regional finalist for the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation 2010 Conservationist of the Year Award and received the United States Department of Agriculture National Environmentalist Award. He has an extensive background in agriculture and water policy.”

This position does not require Senate confirmation and the compensation is $175,008. Lyons is a Democrat.

The Governor’s Office’s press release didn’t mention that Bill Lyons owns Mapes Ranch, a3,500 acre “diversified farming and cattle operation” producing almonds, wheat, tomatoes, alfalfa, corn, grapes, oats, barley, beans, forage mix, and melons, adjacent to 3,000 acres of rangeland.

Nor did the Governor’s Office mention that Mapes Ranch gets water through the Modesto Irrigation District (MID), a water district that sued the State Water Resources Control Board over the Phase 1 Update to the Bay-Delta Water Quality Control Plan on January 10.


Eye on Modesto, a blog by Emerson Blake about his “thoughts and observations about Modesto and Stanislaus County” noted that Bill Lyons has been CEO of Lyons investments (read Mapes ranch) since 1976, “and that is around the time Bill began treating the Modesto Irrigation District (MID) as his personal fiefdom.”

“Bill and or his family and business associates controlled three of the five votes on MID’s Board as long as most can remember (until Jim Mortensen bungled it),” claimed Blake. “For years they funded any challenge to his votes/puppets by cutting a campaign donation check for $5,000 anytime they were opposed during an election (in most elections they ran unopposed due to lack of interest). For perspective a $5,000 check in past MID terms was more like a $50,000, check today.”

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/08/governor-appoints-san-joaquin-valley-grower-william-lyons-to-new-agriculture-liaison-position/
65   anonymous   ignore (null)   2019 Mar 28, 4:44am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

@Patrick - I wouldn't stop worrying long term or celebrating too hard or long....but to each his own.

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