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Tesla as an Investment

By Patrick following x   2018 Dec 22, 8:42pm 9,424 views   318 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


What do people think about Tesla (TSLA)?

It's over $300, with a loss of $10/share, but revenue just keeps going up. Hard to figure out what a fair price is since it doesn't make money yet.

How would you come up with a fair price per share?

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241   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 4, 7:10pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I'm really betting on Tesla's battery technology, which is more than half their revenue if I understand right.

Batteries are the limiting factor for solar power at the moment. With really good batteries, we might be able to replace most fossil fuels with solar.
242   socal2   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 4, 7:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
I'm really betting on Tesla's battery technology, which is more than half their revenue if I understand right.

Batteries are the limiting factor for solar power at the moment. With really good batteries, we might be able to replace most fossil fuels with solar.


Yep - batteries are everything. It will solve alot of the world's problems. I'm interested in seeing what Tesla does with the Maxwell Technologies tech they just acquired.
244   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 4, 8:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sept 1, 2014: Tesla was selling for $280 a share

Today Tesla is selling for around $285 a share

4 years and 5 months of no movement in the stock

Guru Focus shows the median 3 year revenue growth of about 92% for Guru Focs. It is currently 58.6%. So its revenue growth rate is decreasing yet its liabilities and debt are increasing now about $ 23 billion. And its profitability rating is only 6 out of 10; it should be at least 8 out of 10 given its over 10 years of age and has acquired a lot of debt. That is why it has a financial strength rating of only 4 out of 10. It has to hope that it can beat out the competition, just like debt-ridden Netflix hopes to beat out Hulu/Disney, and Amazon Prime.
245   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 4, 8:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I don't get it, I get a lot of flack for fucking hoes but guess what? I'm actually having sex w/o an associated relationship. That's freedom from both, palimony and faux rape charges, esp for a litigious society like the USA. And yes, I don't need to waste time, mopping around in a mall, waiting for some GF to finish her shopping. My cock is happy.

This Tesla EV fandom thing is what? ... being in a high horsepower "EV muscle" vehicle, which performs the same day to day transportation function as a Toyota Corolla and that's suppose to be some sort of world game changer?

If I wanted, I could rent a Porsche or a Maserati, any weekend I want, for a joyride. And really, a joyride is all that it is. Afterwards, you're back to your daily routine.

http://patrick.net/post/1318339/2018-08-20-i-have-a-friend-who-drives-a-tesla-i-say-so-what
246   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 4, 8:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Compare Tesla (financial strength score of 4 out of 10 and profitablility of 6 out of 10) to Amazon

247   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 4, 8:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
This Tesla EV fandom thing is what?


I think Tesla appeals to those who are environmentally conscious, and do not want a hybrid like a Toyota Prius and are willing and able to lay down at least $35,000 for an all-electric car. I don't see gas going up to $4 a gallon with the way fracking is occurring in the USA.

There are enough consumers to support Tesla, but can Tesla improve its financial strength enough ? Its Altman Z score is very bad, and points to a large chance for Tesla's bankruptcy (sans some major breakthrough with battery technology).
248   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 4, 9:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AD says
Rin says
This Tesla EV fandom thing is what?


I think Tesla appeals to those who are environmentally conscious, and do not want a hybrid like a Toyota Prius and are willing and able to lay down at least $35,000 for an all-electric car. I don't see gas going up to $4 a gallon with the way fracking is occurring in the USA.

There are enough consumers to support Tesla, but can Tesla improve its financial strength enough ? Its Altman Z score is very bad, and points to a large chance for Tesla's bankruptcy (sans some major breakthrough with battery technology).

Tesla isn't the "environmental hero." At this point, the Prius is a competitive car on its own merits: very low involvement & drama, very low cost of ownership, low driving & ownership effort; (now) profitable without subsidies. The Prius gives meaningful MPG improvements over conventional cars. For the battery expenditure of a Tesla, we can put 5 or more Priii (Priora ... Greek?) on the road. Therefore, at the current state of batteries, the Prius is the environmental hero.

I wonder what would happen if Toyota created a new car with 150 HP electric power, rear wheel drive, and 225mm summer tires. Sure, the result might "only" get 40 MPG, but you'd have a car that would hit 60 MPH in 5 seconds and handle a lot better. You'd still only need a 50 to 100 HP ICE, as that's all you need when cruising at 80 MPH on the highway.
249   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 4, 10:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

SunnyvaleCA says
Tesla isn't the "environmental hero." At this point, the Prius is a competitive car on its own merits


You underestimate the Tesla customer base who loath the "internal combustion engine" more than Bill Clinton loathed the military.

Tesla provides them a feel-good, cool car without the internal combustion engine. For them, the Prius is old-school and outdated especially since it has been around for about 18 years.
250   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 4, 10:31pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tesla has hit the $35k price point, reduced the price of the very popular Auto pilot feature, and are unveiling the Model Y this month. I'm tempted to buy.
251   clambo   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 5, 5:22am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Just a very cursory glance at the financials of Tesla shows it's going to drown, or crash and burn if you prefer.

Assets: about $9 billon

liabilities: about $30 billion

Of course, it may linger on for a long time as a continuing government welfare case; maybe Musk can use increasing welfare payments to solar city to continue to subsidize the cars.

As a rule I would never buy stock in a company run by a egomaniacal drug using liar, now also an SEC reprobate.
252   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 5, 7:58am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/feb/18/tesla-big-battery-is-holding-its-own-in-a-burgeoning-energy-storage-market

It also saw a record amount of pumped hydro used since 2008, a sure sign of the greater role for energy storage that is to come as the share of wind and solar continues to soar and more battery and pumped hydro systems, along with other forms of storage such as hydrogen and solar thermal, come into the system.

The performance and business model of the Tesla big battery has been a source of fascination for the industry since its opening more than 14 months ago. Tesla founder and CEO Elon Musk recently confirmed that the $95m facility was likely to pay itself back within a few years.
253   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 5, 9:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AD says
Tesla provides them a feel-good, cool car without the internal combustion engine.


Yes, it's a feel-good/cool thing, which in the way of business, is not a game changer outside of legislation.

The reason why the smartphone was a game changer was that it merged the heavy laptop with a mobile phone. In other words, ever since ppl started using a laptop for business on-the-go in large quantities, ala 1989-93, there was a need for something which merged the two capabilities. And thus, the emergence of low cost, hi-speed wireless internet made this 'pent-up' demand for smartphones come to fruition. Eventually, once fold-able screens come into production, then even the laptop of yesteryear will be completely phased out, as the office-on-the-go will be fully miniaturized and mobile.

In contrast, the EV is the fashion statement, the new designer shoe, etc, of the transportation world. Before EVs, ppl were driving ICEs like the Accord & the Camry, and then, during the run up of gas prices, hybrids like the Prius, filled some of the gaps in added fuel costs.

The average worker bee needs a vehicle for transportation, not just for work & back (as in metering concept for EV's distance limit) but also for freedom of mobility. Once the cool factor/cult classic status of EVs starts to wane, then it'll be just another car among a sea of ICEs, which get the job done with much less fanfare along with fights at charging stations.
254   socal2   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 5, 9:18am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
In contrast, the EV is the fashion statement, the new designer shoe, etc, of the transportation world. Before EVs, ppl were driving ICEs like the Accord & the Camry, and then, during the run up of gas prices, hybrids like the Prius, filled some of the gaps in fuel costs.


I can only speak for myself driving a dopey looking Chevy Bolt.

I didn't do it for the environment. I certainly didn't do it for looks or status (the car is fugly). I did it for the pure joy of driving an EV and saving over $200/month in gas and maintenance. It truly is a different experience. It is not just the acceleration and torque, but it also the awesome regenerative braking and one pedal driving........which is particularly fun and satisfying in hilly terrain.

I never once considered driving a hybrid over the last 10 years because I knew it would be a general step down in performance to the ICE cars I was driving. But once Tesla came out and some other automakers came out with pure EV cars that were a total blast to drive - it started pulling in a new market of people like me.

Whatever happens with Tesla - I think there can be no doubt that EV cars are the future. Personally, I'll never go back to driving ICE cars again.
255   B.A.C.A.H.   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 5, 10:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Once the cool factor/cult classic status of EVs starts to wane, then it'll be just another car among a sea of ICEs, which get the job done with much less fanfare along with fights at charging stations.

I think an EV can be a good fit for a certain kind of situation. Where the daily use can fit between charges, like commuting and charging at the workplace and also at home. People who pre-paid for their kwhrs by "investing" in a PV rooftop, the charging at home can be no added cost. Also for doing errands about town over reasonable distances. And... here in California, you can "buy your way in" to the HOV lane for three years. Plug-in hybrid, fuel cell, CNG will work for that also.
Until we have a lot more charging spots at our workplaces, the jockeying for the charging spots here in Silicon Valley can get ugly. We have folks commuting in from far away, some who recently got the EV to "buy" their way into the HOV lane to make the commute less miserable. It can lead to anxiety about getting a charging spot which can be a distraction from the job.
256   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 5, 10:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
As a rule I would never buy stock in a company run by a egomaniacal drug using liar, now also an SEC reprobate.


And it's getting worse by the day for poor Elon..

China Blocks Model 3 Sales After Suspending Customs Clearance.

Tesla's awful start to 2019 is getting worse, with the latest bad news hitting the company in its most important "growth" market: China.

Chinese customs have suspended clearance procedures for Tesla's Model 3, according to Reuters which cites Chinese financial publication Caixin. The customs authority in Shanghai found "various irregularities" in 1,600 imported Model 3 vehicles, including improper labeling of the vehicles.

As a result, China has effectively put a block on Model 3 sales, telling Tesla not to sell or use Model 3 vehicles that have already been cleared in the country. Inspectors at ports in China have also been directed by authorities to "step up inspections" of other imported Tesla models and suspend their release if similar problems are uncovered.

This news comes after a sizable fall in Tesla's stock over the last two trading days, as the market continues to digest last Thursday's $35,000 Model 3 unveiling – and the subsequent news that the company blindsided retail employees and investors by their spur-of-the-moment decision to close all of its retail stores.

Investor Alex Chalekian, who manages more than $150 million, said on Twitter: "This was a total 180-degree turn. Tesla had been talking about expanding stores, and all of a sudden they are closing them. To me, this signals a huge financial concern and a possible cash-flow issue for Tesla."

It's not shaping up to be a great year for Tesla.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-05/china-blocks-tesla-model-3-sales-after-suspending-customs-clearance
257   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 5, 10:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

(Bloomberg) -- Tesla Inc. shares continued a steep sell-off in the wake of Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk’s surprise move to close most of the electric-car maker’s stores and shift to online-only sales.

Many sales personnel first found out about the decision when Tesla published a public blog post Thursday afternoon, said three people familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified discussing sensitive matters. A Barclays analyst cut his price target on the stock Tuesday, adding to a chorus of concerns raised by some investors also caught off guard.

Tesla declined to comment on the sales shift beyond Thursday’s blog post and an email Musk sent employees later that day. Representatives didn’t immediately respond Tuesday to inquiries about a Chinese media report that said Model 3 sedans are being held up by customs over labeling issues.

The stock has dropped as much as 16 percent since Thursday, shaving more than $8 billion from Tesla’s market capitalization. The shares traded down as much as 5.3 percent to $270.10 as of 10:40 a.m. Tuesday in New York, to the lowest intraday in more than four months.
258   RC2006   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 5, 11:24am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I wish Tesla success.
I just want a house off the electric grid with batteries no electric bill and charge a electric car so I don't have to buy gas without much to worry about.
259   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 5, 11:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RC2006 says
I wish Tesla success.
I just want a house off the electric grid with batteries no electric bill and charge a electric car so I don't have to buy gas without much to worry about.


https://www.homepower.com/

Create a free account to access past publications.
260   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 5, 7:23pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tesla Unexpectedly Fires Even More Workers As Top Shareholder Concedes Musk No Longer "Needs To Be CEO".

As if the layoffs of - well, everyone - at the retail level and closure of all of its brick and mortar stores were not enough of an indication that Tesla is a "growth company", this afternoon the news broke that the company is also laying off an additional 81 people from its Fremont factory in California.

Citing California Employment Development Department data, Mercury News reported that this brings the total number of layoffs at the Fremont factory to 883 this month. Additional data shows that the company is ditching four other positions in Lathrop, which brings the total number of cuts at that location to 141.

Filings from Tesla in late January indicated 1,017 job cuts at Fremont, Palo Alto and Lathrop.

The news also seems to be at direct odds with what Musk reportedly told the media on last week's secretive conference call, where the eccentric CEO stated the company could be "significantly increasing headcount in service technicians."

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-05/tesla-unexpectedly-fires-even-more-workers-top-shareholder-concedes-musk-no-longer

Hmmmm, why would such an awesome company with a awesome CEO that makes awesome EVs, be laying off MORE employees, slashing prices, closing retail stores and hiring MORE service techs? Why does such an awesome car require ANY service techs yet Mush is hiring MORE???

Inquiring minds want to know?

261   clambo   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 5, 7:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tesla is toast. I like that nutty Elon picture.
262   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 5, 7:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Gee, I never knew awesome CEOs of revolutionary car companies who are worth billions, need to take out over $50 million in mortgages to keep their companies open... hmmmm..

Elon Musk Turns to Morgan Stanley for Five Monster Mortgages

When it comes to cars, tunnels and rockets, Elon Musk thinks big. The same’s true for his household finances.

The billionaire recently took out $61 million in mortgages on five properties in California, four in the Bel Air neighborhood of Los Angeles and one in Hillsborough, in the Bay Area. The Morgan Stanley loans, signed in the final days of 2018, represent about $50 million in new borrowing. One refinancing on a 20,200-plus square-foot property he bought in 2012 for $17 million turned a $10 million loan into a $19.5 million debt.

His monthly payment: about $180,000.

The loans show how even the wealthiest people use mortgages to maintain liquidity.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-22/elon-musk-turns-to-morgan-stanley-for-five-monster-mortgages



Nah, nothing to see here.......
263   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 5, 7:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
In contrast, the EV is the fashion statement, the new designer shoe, etc, of the transportation world. Before EVs, ppl were driving ICEs like the Accord & the Camry, and then, during the run up of gas prices, hybrids like the Prius, filled some of the gaps in added fuel costs.


B.A.C.A.H. says
We have folks commuting in from far away, some who recently got the EV to "buy" their way into the HOV lane to make the commute less miserable. It can lead to anxiety about getting a charging spot which can be a distraction from the job.


From my Prius/Leaf thread ...

http://patrick.net/post/1322772/2019-03-01-rin-spoke-with-prius-owners-on-the-nissan-leaf

=====

kt1652 says
If an ev with 200 mile range gets reduced to 100 mile in winter as a worst case, it would still satisfy 95-98% of daily trips of metropolitan drivers, without charging top-off, what is the problem?


There is this concept of 'metering'. In a sense, what the ICE did was eliminate that from the way of life. So sure, if a person is highly conservative and only drives exactly to work and back, and leaves the vehicle on a plug overnight, then sure, EVs are "a way" to go. Here's the thing, what the ICE accomplished was that it eliminated this from the horse and buggy tech of pre-1900 where yes, the animals were high maintenance and couldn't gallop across the country without rest, eating, and crapping.

Today, a person is free to go, wherever he wants and whenever, even if a sudden road trip to see a friend/relative in another state comes up or running errands around various ex-burb towns which can easily chew up 70+ miles from out of the blue. When I used to drive a lot, I would make road trips between Boston, NYC, and Philly regularly. And the worst that would happen is that when I get off that highway, exit 4 on the NJ Turnpike, I would just refill at a Wawa's to continue on my journey. If it were an EV, I'd be somewhere stuck in Connecticut, battling it out with angry drivers at the charge stations. Sorry, but no thanks, I prefer to be free and independent.


B.A.C.A.H. says
may doom "ICE" car sales more than the new competition from EVs.


There's the used market for Corollas and Civics, under $8K, which can accommodate many ppl's budgets. I've seen original engines last up through 250K miles.
====
264   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 5, 7:59pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Right now, if I had the inkling, I could get on the road immediately, hit my 24 hour gas stop in Boston for an instant fill-up, drive down to Philly to visit a friend, and I wouldn't have to worry about re-fueling until I got there. That's true freedom on the road.
265   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 5, 8:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tesla stock slides to 4-month low as analysts question recent decisions, fret about cash burn

‘Something just doesn’t add up,’ says Morgan Stanley analyst, while Barclays slashes price target to among lowest on Wall Street.

Tesla Inc. stock extended losses Tuesday after more analysts joined the chorus of Tesla doubters and criticized the Silicon Valley car maker’s recent decisions.

Tesla TSLA, -3.09% shares fell 3.1% to close at their lowest since Oct. 22 and are down more than 13% in the past three sessions in the wake of company news that stoked demand fears. The stock fell by as much as 5.4% on Tuesday.

Adam Jonas at Morgan Stanley said in a note Tuesday that investor feedback on Tesla has been “firmly in the ‘something’s wrong’ camp rather than ‘this is a great buying opportunity’ camp.”

You can put us in the ‘something just doesn’t add up’ camp,” he said. Recent events “are communicating to investors a sense of growing tension in the organization.”

The new sales model is “uncharted territory” for Tesla, a company that used to highlight its advantages in promoting the brand and engaging with customers without a middleman, he said.

Brian Johnson at Barclays cut his price target on the stock by 9% to $192, representing 30% downside to Tuesday share prices.

The sooner-than-expected $35,000 Model 3 announcement, “rather than reflecting dramatic progress on manufacturing and distribution costs, likely reflects the need to replenish cash after the convert repayment, perhaps exacerbated by the weak first two months of U.S. sales,” the Barclays analysts said. Tesla made its biggest-ever bond payment on Friday on $920 million of convertible debt and likely used up nearly a quarter of its cash, as The Wall Street Journal reported.

Moreover, “gross margins will now be appreciably lower, and thus a significant amount of additional volume is needed to offset price cuts even considering the cost saves,” they said.

David Tamberrino at Goldman Sachs also raised concerns that a lower-priced Model 3 implies lower demand for the sedan’s pricier trims. It will “drive a downward mix impact for Model 3 margins,” he said in a note Friday.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-stock-slides-another-4-as-analysts-question-recent-decisions-fret-about-cash-burn-2019-03-05

266   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 9:21am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"35 Pounds" Of Dirt Trapped In Tesla Model 3 Reveals Stunning Design Flaw

When one of the best known pro-Tesla blogs on the web says that the Model 3 has a substantial design flaw, it’s time to pay attention.

The "mass accessible" electric car, which become infamous for having its bumpers fall off, was found to have a design flaw in its underbody that causes the car to trap and retain dirt, water and sand from roadways, according to electrek, who this week published an article detailing the flaw.

The blog points out that Tesla has "often been accused of designing cars for the Californian climate" and that water, dirt and sand used to de-ice roads in colder climates are susceptible to getting trapped in the underbody of Model 3 cars.

And the reality check keeps on coming for electrek's editor, who has now learned - firsthand - about yet another problem with the Model 3 in cold climates.

Eric Bolduc, who owns a body shop in Quebec has "found significant amounts of sand and dirt accumulating in the underbody panel at the back of every Model 3 he has worked on so far."

This mechanic has worked on about 25 Model 3 vehicles and he says that he always finds about 10 to 20 pounds of sand and dirt stuck in the panel, due to what he believes is a lack of proper drainage. In one case, he extracted over 35 pounds of dirt from the underbody of a Model 3. He believes that the dirt is coming from behind one of the wheels.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-07/35-pounds-dirt-trapped-tesla-model-3-reveals-stunning-design-flaw

I wonder if this is any factor in the rear bumpers ripping off?



So, beside carrying around massive batteries, instead of a fuel load that lightens as you drive, you get to haul additional ballast. Nice!!

I wonder if you can use all that dirt to put out the future fire?
267   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 10:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rin says
Right now, if I had the inkling, I could get on the road immediately, hit my 24 hour gas stop in Boston for an instant fill-up, drive down to Philly to visit a friend, and I wouldn't have to worry about re-fueling until I got there. That's true freedom on the road.

"you" = anecdotal. If Rin can't bother with route planning or whatever EV inconveniences because his life is on the lower left quadrant of driving behavior, there is an alter-Rin who drives 200 miles a day in predominately warm climate region that will save a ton of fuel money and will love his EV. Just as important, the battery charge tech is catching up fast.
New V3 Superchargers let drivers fill up faster, 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/07/tesla-debuts-new-v3-superchargers-to-let-drivers-fill-up-faster.html
Even 25% of the auto market = 20 million/year, that is exponential growth potential for EV.
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus? Here is some anecdotal thoughts, it seems every month, there are more new EV's competing for my workplace "free charge" spots.
268   theoakman   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 10:17am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Face it...this car was a prototype that they touted as a car ready for market. They rushed it to the market and things like this are what happens when you do that.
269   socal2   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 10:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


This -

I simply can't imagine buying an ICE car in the future after just 2.5 months of driving an EV car. And my loyalty has nothing to do with being environmentally conscious or even saving hundreds a month in gas. It is simply a better driving experience compared to any other car I've owned or leased.

If Tesla truly goes tits up, all of these Tesla drivers are going to gravitate to the other automakers making EV cars. I don't see many of them going back to ICE cars.

IRT - Tesla. When was the last time a US car start-up churned out this many cars and had such high demand? Of course there is going to be scaling challenges to meet the growing demand. Most of the quality issues have been minor things like paint and body stuff. The core technology of Tesla (safety, motors, batteries, software) have been rock solid.
270   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 10:28am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

theoakman says
Face it...this car was a prototype that they touted as a car ready for market. They rushed it to the market and things like this are what happens when you do that.
What car are you talking about? X, S, or 3?
If 3 than, data says it is the best selling luxury car of 2018.
Back your opinion or credentials. You can't be an authority on everything. lol
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/teslas-model-3-was-2018s-best-selling-luxury-car-in-us.html
TSLA is a volatile stock, carrying too excessive risk as my core holdings.
I may trade it's channel patterns, but if held for long term, daily fluct is noise.
Tesla has a reputation of reaching it's goals, even if late.
If you worked in SiliValley top tier techs, you'd understand why this is purposeful from Musk.
271   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 7, 10:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


Less need to interact with $tealers, probably?
272   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 10:31am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Hugolas_Madurez says
kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


Less need to interact with $tealers, probably?

amen. Last new car "negotiation", I almost punched the closer. Never again.
273   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 12:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

kt1652 says
Still trying to rationalize why nearly every EV owner loves his car and tesla has the highest loyalty of any brand, even beating Beemers, Audi's, Lexus?


Isn't that the same thing all the Apple fanboys said when they paid DOUBLE for their first iPod or iPad?

274   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 12:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

socal2 says
Most of the quality issues have been minor things like paint and body stuff. The core technology of Tesla (safety, motors, batteries, software) have been rock solid.


So, getting incinerated by Autopilot is just a minor thing?
275   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2019 Mar 7, 1:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Oh my........................

Tesla Shares Slide On Reports Musk's Pentagon Security Clearance Under Review.

Another day, another headline about the CEO of Tesla has sent the carmaker's shares lower...

As Bloomberg reports, The Pentagon is reviewing Elon Musk’s federal security clearance following the billionaire’s marijuana toke on a California comedian’s podcast in September, according to a U.S. official.



Bloomberg details that Musk has refiled his SF-86 security form, which requires a federal employee or contractor seeking a clearance to acknowledge any illegal drug use over the previous seven years, according to the official, who asked not to be identified. The entrepreneur has a secret-level clearance because of his role as founder and CEO of Space Exploration Technologies Corp., which is certified to launch military spy satellites.

Elon Musk - ASSet or liability?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-07/tesla-shares-slide-reports-musks-pentagon-security-clearance-under-review

Well, at least, the stock is showing great signs of stability and growth!! Just look at the one year chart...




Oh, wait....
276   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 1:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
socal2 says
Most of the quality issues have been minor things like paint and body stuff. The core technology of Tesla (safety, motors, batteries, software) have been rock solid.


So, getting incinerated by Autopilot is just a minor thing?
only minor point, no car under $100k can outperform any tesla's acceleration.
Name one ICE that upgrades w/ new function over the air. Take your swt time.
277   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 1:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

True that I'm EV fanboy, just Tesla is tech leader w 5-7 year ahead of pack. G M could have don't it, but they sat on their complacent ass, after the Volt & Bolt. Maybe Hyundai will show right stuff.
278   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 1:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Isn't that the same thing all the Apple fanboys said when they paid DOUBLE for their first iPod or iPad?

The original iPod with original box and other materials now sells for 10x the list price, so ... not the same thing. The original iPad, however, isn't worth much.
279   socal2   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 7, 2:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It's funny reading all the Musk haters. If Tesla were to go bankrupt today, Musk already accomplished more in the auto industry than most of his peers. Let alone us internet armchair warriors. Tesla is setting the bar on the future of the auto industry. Not to mention the miracles Musk has achieved with SpaceX sending fucking rockets up into space cheaper and better than NASA, Russia and China.

If Musk was your standard Silicon Valley SJW - I can see why some in the zerohedge orbit would be all bent out of shape. But Musk has largely stayed out of goofy liberal identify politics and truly appears to be a hard worker unlike the majority of Silicon Valley billionaires living off past achievements.
280   kt1652   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 7, 3:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

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