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The Saudis Keep Changing Their Story on the Murder of Khashoggi. What Should We Do?


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2018 Oct 22, 5:54pm   2,818 views  13 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2018/october/22/the-saudis-keep-changing-their-story-on-the-murder-of-khashoggi-what-should-we-do/

The Saudi version of the disappearance and murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi seems to change every day or so. The latest is the Saudi government claim that the opposition journalist was killed in a “botched interrogation” at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Or was it a fist-fight? What is laughable is that the Saudi king has placed Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, a prime suspect, in charge of the investigation of Khashoggi’s murder!

Though the official story keeps changing, what is unlikely to change is Washington’s continued relationship with Saudi Arabia. It is a partnership that is in no way beneficial to Americans or the US national interest.

President Trump has promised “severe punishment” if the Saudi government is found to have been involved in Khashoggi’s murder, but he also took off the table any reduction in arms sales to prop up the murderous Saudi war on Yemen. It’s all about jobs, said President Trump. So the Saudi killing of thousands in Yemen can go on. Some murders are more important than others, obviously.

The killing of Khashoggi puts the Trump Administration is in a difficult situation. President Trump views Iran as designated enemy number one. Next month the US Administration intends to impose a new round of sanctions designed to make it impossible for Iran to sell its oil on the international market. To keep US fuel prices from spiking over this move Trump is relying on other countries, especially Saudi Arabia, to pump more and make up the difference. But the Saudis have threatened $400 a barrel oil if President Trump follows through with his promise of “severe punishment” over the killing of Khashoggi.

The Saudis have also threatened to look for friendship in Moscow or even Tehran if Washington insists on “punishing” the regime in Riyadh. For a super-power, the US doesn’t seem to have many options.

What whole mess reveals is just how wise our Founding Fathers were to warn us against entangling alliances. For too many decades the US has been in an unhealthy relationship with the Saudi kingdom, providing the Saudis with a US security guarantee in exchange for “cheap” oil and the laundering of oil profits through the US military-industrial complex by the purchase of billions of dollars in weapons.

This entangling relationship with Saudi Arabia should end. It is unfortunate that the tens of thousands of civilians dead from Yemen to Syria due to Saudi aggression don’t matter as much as the murder of one establishment journalist like Khashoggi, but as one Clinton flack once said, we should not let this current crisis go to waste.

This is not about demanding that the Saudis change their ways, reform their society on the lines of a liberal democracy, or allow more women to drive. The problem with our relationship with Saudi Arabia is not about Saudi Arabia. It is about us. The United States should not be in the business of selling security guarantees overseas to the highest bidder. We are constantly told that the US military guarantees our own safety and so it should be.

No, this is about returning to a foreign policy that seeks friendship and trade with all nations who seek the same, but that heeds the warning of George Washington in his Farewell Address that “a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils.” If we care about the United States we must heed this warning. No more passionate attachments overseas. Friendship and trade over all.

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1   Patrick   2018 Oct 22, 7:19pm  

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi-case-latest-updates-181010133542286.html

Trump said he had talked on the phone with both Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman and more details about what happened would be known within a day or two.
Review of facts around Khashoggi murder

"He says he is not involved nor is the king," Trump said of the powerful crown prince, declining to answer whether he believed his denials.


Hmmm. Right. And the prince is in charge of the investigation.

A Turkish intelligence source relayed that at one point Qahtani told his men to dispose of Khashoggi. "Bring me the head of the dog", the Turkish intelligence source told Reuters that Qahtani instructed. ...

Maher Abdulaziz Mutrib is reported to have been seen carrying a large bag, which was not checked as he bypassed security checks through a VIP lounge at Istanbul's Ataturk airport.


A large bag. Big enough to carry a human head?
2   richwicks   2018 Oct 22, 7:30pm  

Just so you realize, this whole Khashoggi story is just a distraction.

First of all, the story makes no sense - murdering him would have been trivial to do undetected. Second of all, the story keeps changing. Third, he was (maybe still is) a scumbag intelligence asset. All we hear about this story is from unreliable sources, so just ignore it. They lied us into a war in Iraq that murdered 100,000 to 1,000,000 people, why do you think they wouldn't lie about anything?

Governments murder people all the time, Saudi Arabia is murdering plenty of people in Yemen right now, but this one man - he's suddenly really important, because of human rights? What? We you all born yesterday?
3   Patrick   2018 Oct 22, 7:44pm  

I don't think Khashoggi was a good guy and am not going to cry for him. Far more people have been murdered by the Saudis in Yemen.

But this is an opportunity to finally finally get some discussion going about the horrors of the Saudi regime and whether we should have any relations with them at all.
4   Patrick   2018 Oct 22, 7:46pm  

Would be great if MBS were arrested when attempting to travel to a country with basic human rights:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2018/10/22/heres-how-the-saudi-crown-prince-could-face-international-justice/

MBS may believe he has enough power, influence and invincibility to escape real justice — and he may be proven right.

But he can never be sure. And for the rest of his life, MBS will enjoy the pariah status afforded to other international human rights violators. Whenever he or his accomplices travel to a country where human rights are enforced, they will have to worry if they would be held accountable for Khashoggi’s killing and various other crimes.
5   mell   2018 Oct 22, 7:52pm  

richwicks says
Just so you realize, this whole Khashoggi story is just a distraction.

First of all, the story makes no sense - murdering him would have been trivial to do undetected. Second of all, the story keeps changing. Third, he was (maybe still is) a scumbag intelligence asset. All we hear about this story is from unreliable sources, so just ignore it. They lied us into a war in Iraq that murdered 100,000 to 1,000,000 people, why do you think they wouldn't lie about anything?

Governments murder people all the time, Saudi Arabia is murdering plenty of people in Yemen right now, but this one man - he's suddenly really important, because of human rights? What? We you all born yesterday?


Have to admit that was a point well made.
6   Patrick   2018 Oct 22, 8:16pm  



Saudi investment site was hacked and picture of MBS as ISIS was posted on it, which is in fact very close to the truth. Saudi Arabia is ISIS, just with embassies and influence around the world.

Click for larger version.
7   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 22, 8:18pm  

richwicks says
Governments murder people all the time, Saudi Arabia is murdering plenty of people in Yemen right now, but this one man - he's suddenly really important, because of human rights? What? We you all born yesterday?


THIS.

As I said in the other thread, nobody gave a shit - least of all the Media or Former/Current State officials - when SA and Iran tortured and executed countless Gays, Protesters, and "Witches". Indeed the guy who gave Iran it's impounded money back while it was doing these things was hailed as a heroic diplomatic success by the same people bitching about Khashoggi's death today. Suddenly, after the Iran Deal was signed, Iran executed more gays than it had in 20+ years.

All of a sudden one Muslim Brotherhood shill and everything has to change.

That and almost all the sources are from Erdogan's Turkey, which has more journalists in prison than any country in the world - including China which has multiple times the population.,

MbS is the first Saudi in decades to actually liberalize Saudi Arabian laws. What happens if he is forced to resign? Anybody think his replacement will be another daring liberal? Or a member of the "Safe Old Guard" that wants to return to exporting Wahabi fanatics and restoring the now-reduced powers of the Religious Police?
8   clambo   2018 Oct 22, 8:18pm  

Saudis being jerks is one subject, the victim being a jerk is another subject, Turkey being jerks and anti-USA and anti-Saudi Arabia is another subject, USA having diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia is another subject, and the media trying to make a mountain over a molehill is another subject.

I can't keep track of it all. But, unless and until Iran decides to behave and Israel moves to a safer location, I guess we must have some dealings with the Saudis.

I think we should ignore it and focus on things which may actually matter to us.
9   Patrick   2018 Oct 22, 8:27pm  

clambo says
I guess we must have some dealings with the Saudis.


I disagree.

96% Of Americans Know Saudis Did 9/11 And Got Away With It
10   bob2356   2018 Oct 23, 5:33am  

richwicks says

First of all, the story makes no sense - murdering him would have been trivial to do undetected.


Murdering a political enemy in another country isn't trivial at all and usually blows up in peoples faces. Which is why it is so rarely attempted. The russians keep stepping on their dicks with this. Countries are very touchy about other countries murdering people inside their borders.
11   bob2356   2018 Oct 23, 5:40am  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
MbS is the first Saudi in decades to actually liberalize Saudi Arabian laws. What happens if he is forced to resign? Anybody think his replacement will be another daring liberal? Or a member of the "Safe Old Guard" that wants to return to exporting Wahabi fanatics and restoring the now-reduced powers of the Religious Police?


When did MBS stop exporting wahabi fanatics? ROFLOL.

Tell me about MBS's humanitarian peace mission in yemen. to help his fellow muslims lead a better life. through starvation and being blown apart. Oh right the saudi/US backed militia's spreading death and terrorism are called freedom fighters It's the other militias that are called terrorists. What a total joke.
12   Patrick   2018 Oct 23, 6:48am  

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says
Ragheads killing rag heads is what AMERICA! is all about.


The truth is the opposite: Muslims killing non-Muslims is what Islam is all about.

Jihad has always been central to Islam, a holy obligation to invade all non-Islamic lands and give them the choice of conversion, payment of the jizya, or death.
13   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 23, 9:45am  

bob2356 says
When did MBS stop exporting wahabi fanatics? ROFLOL.

My goodness, do you have proof?

Oh, and you were going to tell me which sanctions on Saudi Arabia were put in place by Obama to stop all the human rights violations of tortured and executed gays and witches. And why Obama gave Iran's impounded cash back despite regular and massive human rights violations.

Still no answer, except:

OrangeManBad! GoldenChildGood!

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