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What am I missing? N.Korea etc...


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2018 Jun 12, 2:06pm   18,499 views  74 comments

by joshuatrio   ➕follow (4)   💰tip   ignore  

I read the comment section on various articles about Trump/N.Korea blah blah...

All the liberals/SJW's are melting down about how Trump gave everything to China/Russia. Am I missing something here?

From my understanding, the only thing Trump agreed to was stopping the twice a year joint exercises that can be restarted at a moments notice. Doesn't seem like much of a concession, AND North Korea halted nuclear and missile testing, gave us our hostages, and verbally agreed to denuclearize. While there is a massive way to go still and an official treaty still needs to be done with verifiable checks - how is this a loss? Why are all the libbies claiming Trump gave it all to China/Russia and all this other conspiracy theory bullshit?

In my opinion, this is a great step towards peace, and aversion to nuclear war.

WTF???

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1   joshuatrio   2018 Jun 12, 4:58pm  

Feux Follets says
Potus legitimized Kim on the world stage, something that will have far reaching and unintended consequences. Far from being marginalized Putin and Xi have also been raised by riding on the coat tails of this.


Oh please. Kim has been part of the world stage for years. He's been on the front page of national headlines and has an arsenal of nukes for years.

I think libs just hate a win when they see it. In fact, I'm more and more convinced of this everytime I read slanted headline.
2   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Jun 12, 5:10pm  

BREAKING NEWS:

9th Circuit Court of Appeals orders DPRK Nuclear and Ballistic Missile Testing to continue.
3   Patrick   2018 Jun 12, 5:21pm  

This is truly an epic win for The Donald, and it very difficult to spin it otherwise.
4   bob2356   2018 Jun 12, 5:30pm  

Patrick says
This is truly an epic win for The Donald, and it very difficult to spin it otherwise.


An epic win is NK with no nukes So far the only thing that has happened is an agreement to talk. We've talked for 30 years including 2 treaties. If just agreeing to talk is an epic win what was signing a treaty then? Exponential epic win?
5   joshuatrio   2018 Jun 12, 5:41pm  

bob2356 says
Patrick says
This is truly an epic win for The Donald, and it very difficult to spin it otherwise.


An epic win is NK with no nukes So far the only thing that has happened is an agreement to talk. We've talked for 30 years including 2 treaties. If just agreeing to talk is an epic win what was signing a treaty then? Exponential epic win?


I already explained this to you:

joshuatrio says
bob2356 says
Where is the winning? There were 2 actual real signed nuclear deals already and nothing happened. All that has happened so far is trump and K saying let's do lunch some time. I'll applaud after there are results not self promoting.

Where is the negative in pointing out the realities of the situation anyway? It's called analysis which is neither positive or negative.


For starters, I'd say two countries having an open dialogue is a great start. That's more than previous Presidents.

If the end goal is de-nuclearization, why all the media hate? If Obama had done this, he would have been given a gold star and a key to the city.

Better than threats, tweets, lines in the sand etc..
6   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Jun 12, 6:20pm  

Patrick says
This is truly an epic win for The Donald, and it very difficult to spin it otherwise.


B-B-B-ut, anonymous, probably unemployed former State Department Revolving Door People say this was impossible, would lead to nuclear war, and now that it's successful, it's all Moon's doing.

hahahahahahahaha You can't believe the 180s they do...
7   Booger   2018 Jun 12, 6:21pm  

This is what you missed:
8   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Jun 12, 6:23pm  

Feux Follets says
Kim has not gotten this kind of legitimacy as a major player before. He has been on the outside looking in however that is now in the past.

Like it or not being asked to take part in the summit by a sitting U.S. President elevates him to an entirely new level and for better or worse the leader of a nuclear armed nation that is powerful enough now to warrant this kind of attention.


Notice how playing ball with Trump comes with rewards. You go from Rocket Man to Chairman Kim.

Feux Follets says
Can't stay away from Obama now can we ? Let's keep this laser focused on Trump


Oh, I'm sure they were failing under Bush as well. Those experts with a long list of failed attempts at diplomacy and what few agreements they did get were underwhelming.

Victoria "Nurse Ratched" Nuland must be frothing at the mouth.
10   Booger   2018 Jun 12, 6:43pm  

I don’t recall all the “experts” criticizing Obama when he met with a brutal dictator in Cuba who also oversaw a police state & also killed & jailed his opponents. #DoubleStandard
11   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Jun 12, 6:44pm  

Man, it's amazing to watch some folks call others delusional, as they deny massive progress towards a breakthrough 70-years in waiting.
12   RWSGFY   2018 Jun 12, 6:47pm  

I personally don't see any special #win there, but I don't see any #loss either. So far the situation is similar to Bush removing NK from terrorist-sponsoring countries list in exchange to desctruction of a reactor cooling tower. It's too early to tell whether this new talks end up the same way (i.e. nothingburger) or lead to something bigger. I just don't trust the fucking commie fucks. Unless these regimes are completely dismantled they will continue playing fucking games. One look at the Russian fucks is all proof you'll ever need.
14   Booger   2018 Jun 12, 6:54pm  

This is what you missed:
15   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 6:57pm  

joshuatrio says
All the liberals/SJW's are melting down about how Trump gave everything to China/Russia. Am I missing something here?

From my understanding, the only thing Trump agreed to was stopping the twice a year joint exercises that can be restarted at a moments notice.


He also said he would pull our 28K military personal out of SK.

I'm not judging it bad, but to deny it's a big concession ?

Interesting where we've gotten with our politics. If someone is critical of Trump, they must be a liberal/SJW.

In other words, I guess if you're a republican, it's impossible for Trump to fuck up, and if you're liberal that's all he ever does.

Isn't being an American wonderful ?

Case in point:
Patrick says
This is truly an epic win for The Donald, and it very difficult to spin it otherwise.
17   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 7:07pm  

Trump’s vow to end South Korea military drills and pull out troops confounds Seoul and contradicts Pentagon stance

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/2150491/trumps-vow-end-military-drills-south-korea-contradicts-pentagon

Seems like pretty classic Trump to me.

I guess that guarantees we will be the first ones not to honor our side of the deal.

I guess removing the troops is a carrot for a future deal, and not include with this "deal."
18   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 7:13pm  

Booger says
I don’t recall all the “experts” criticizing Obama when he met with a brutal dictator in Cuba who also oversaw a police state & also killed & jailed his opponents.


Were you applauding him ?
19   Patrick   2018 Jun 12, 7:17pm  

marcus says
He also said he would pull our 28K military personal out of SK.


Woah, that's excellent if true. At least a billion dollars in savings every year.

Another win.
20   Shaman   2018 Jun 12, 7:26pm  

Since I have a friend who was decently deployed to Korea, I’m glad for peace. Oh and no impending nuclear doom on our Left Coast is also good for us in California. I’m sorry if that hurts your policy wonk pride or feelings. Sure NK is still an awful place with awful human rights abuses. But if Cuba is any measure, isolation just makes the situation worse. While China, with the same horrible communist past, came out of isolation and became prosperous and much improved over the bad old days of Cultural Revolution.

Giving an opponent a measure of legitimacy is the ONLY way to resolve a conflict without a fight. Trust must go both ways, and if your position is that your enemy is completely incapable of being trusted, there can be no conflict resolution beyond total war.

Nobody but Libtards want that.
21   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 7:27pm  

Patrick says
marcus says
He also said he would pull our 28K military personal out of SK.


Woah, that's excellent if true. At least a billion dollars in savings.



I'm not qualified to know if it's a win or not. But it turns out it wasn't promised as part of this deal.
22   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 7:29pm  

Quigley says
Nobody but Libtards want that.


Funny how it takes a right wing TrumpCuck to know what the libtards want.

I would think you could just ask 10 libtards to find out what they want, but no, more fun to lie out your ass about what they want. You know, becasue of some Bill Maker meme. Isn't it great being an American ?
23   Patrick   2018 Jun 12, 7:30pm  

Quigley says
Giving an opponent a measure of legitimacy is the ONLY way to resolve a conflict without a fight.


True. You can't really win and have peace unless you give them a bit of honor as part of the deal.

America did not totally squash Germany after WWII, and also left the emperor in nominal charge of Japan, and those worked out well.

GW Bush was both an asshole and a moron and completely destroyed the Iraqi power structure and murdered Saddam, who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. We are still suffering the consequences. Bush should be in jail.
24   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 7:35pm  

joshuatrio says

What am I missing? N.Korea etc...


This is what relatively neutral people are saying.


The statement, which American officials negotiated intensely with the North Koreans and had hoped would be a road map to a nuclear deal, was a page and a half of diplomatic language recycled from statements negotiated by the North over the last two decades.

It made no mention of Mr. Trump’s longstanding — supposedly nonnegotiable — demand that North Korea submit to complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization. It made no mention of North Korea’s missiles. It did not even set a firm date for a follow-up meeting, though the president said he would invite Mr. Kim to the White House when the time was right.

“This is what North Korea has wanted from the beginning, and I cannot believe that our side allowed it,” said Joseph Y. Yun, a former State Department official who has negotiated with the North. “I am quite simply surprised that months of negotiations produced so little.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/world/asia/north-korea-summit.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
25   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 7:36pm  

OH, but the Iran deal is TERRIBLE, just terrible.

Isn't it great being an American ?
26   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Jun 12, 7:37pm  

Patrick says


Woah, that's excellent if true. At least a billion dollars in savings.

Another win.


Here's another thought, @Patrick.

The fact that these meeting even happened is a slap in the face to China. They were counting on using the North Korean issue as leverage in keeping their unfair trade practices.
27   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Jun 12, 7:40pm  

Patrick says
GW Bush was both an asshole and a moron and completely destroyed the Iraqi power structure and murdered Saddam, who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. We are still suffering the consequences. Bush should be in jail.


The Pentagon has a constantly revised plan for occupying Iraq. One of them was keeping Baa'thists in power to administer the country, at least in parts. Instead, they dropped the plan entirely on the eve of the invasion, along with the person who was supposed to run the show and had prepped for months to do so. Then they fired ALL the Baa'thists right off the bat, and they all ended up in Sunni Militias and many eventually in ISIS.

We didn't even fire all the low level Nazi party members running the Railroads and Post Offices after WW2. It would have been stupid to do so. Hell, the founder of the EU was leader of the Lawyer's Association under the Nazis.
28   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Jun 12, 7:42pm  

marcus says


Obama said he'd meet with Kim without preconditions.

Trump established preconditions - suspension of all nuclear and ballistic missle tests, plus release of imprisoned Americans - that Kim met.

Just like Obama gave Iran all the cash and an end to sanctions upfront.
29   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 8:01pm  

joshuatrio says
What am I missing? N.Korea etc...


What are we getting ?

My guess is yes, peace. The same peace we've had with NK for many decades. The same game we've played with NK for decades (except now they have nukes). I guess now we drop sanctions and turn on the money spigots ? ALthough NK gets that from China too. Is NK going to stop being a puppet of China ? Doubtful. Are they going to get us to decrease our military presence in that part of the world ? I don't know. Maybe.

Is not testing your misslies and nukes now that you know they work, denuclearizing ? I don't know. I don't think so.

I'm basically a conservative on the issue of NK. I don't want war, but as far as I could tell, the only reason we've been worried about war with NK was provocation by Trump in response to Kim's provocative tests.

Does Kim look like a big winner here, who basically got everything he wanted out of this ? I think so, yes.
31   MrMagic   2018 Jun 12, 8:29pm  

Feux Follets says
Potus legitimized Kim on the world stage, something that will have far reaching and unintended consequences.


He certainly did..

Did you see when NK nuked Guam, like they threaten Trump that they were going to do?

Oh, wait.... Guam is still here...

Looks like Trump made Kim blink..

Next target Guam, North Korea says
Guam has long been a focal point of North Korea's anger against the US and is often a target of North Korean saber-rattling. It was threatened specifically by North Korea in 2013 and again earlier this month, following a fiery exchange of threats and insults between Trump and the North Korean regime.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/29/asia/north-korea-missile-launch-guam-threat/index.html

It was threatened specifically by North Korea in 2013 and again earlier this month, following a fiery exchange of threats and insults between Trump and the North Korean regime.
32   MrMagic   2018 Jun 12, 8:34pm  

marcus says
This is what relatively neutral people are saying.


Tt months of negotiations produced so little.”

<...


marcus says
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/world/asia/north-korea-summit.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


Hmmmm, when did NYT become "relatively neutral"?

Did Hell freeze over?
33   marcus   2018 Jun 12, 8:44pm  

Another very reality based analysis. It includes the positives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/world/asia/trump-kim-meeting-interpreter.html
34   Patrick   2018 Jun 12, 10:06pm  

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
The fact that these meeting even happened is a slap in the face to China. They were counting on using the North Korean issue as leverage in keeping their unfair trade practices.


Good point. I wonder if that was a big part of The Donald's motive. If so, yet another level of winning. Let's count the wins:

1. North Korea agrees to de-nuclearize
2. We pull out 28,000 troops from Korea, saving at least $1B/year and doing the right thing.
3. China has less to power to keep us buying 5x more from them than they do from us.
35   bob2356   2018 Jun 13, 4:03am  

Patrick says
If so, yet another level of winning. Let's count the wins:

1. North Korea agrees to de-nuclearize
2. We pull out 28,000 troops from Korea, saving at least $1B/year and doing the right thing.
3. China has less to power to keep us buying 5x more from them than they do from us.


and the yankees have won the world series already since they say they will. winning. Oh wait, They have to play the season, playoffs, and world series first. Bugger.
36   socal2   2018 Jun 13, 5:09am  

Patrick says
America did not totally squash Germany after WWII, and also left the emperor in nominal charge of Japan, and those worked out well.

GW Bush was both an asshole and a moron and completely destroyed the Iraqi power structure and murdered Saddam, who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. We are still suffering the consequences. Bush should be in jail.


Oh come on Patrick! We firebombed numerous Japanese cities killing hundreds of thousands and escalated to using nukes. Germany was completely rubbled and cut in half between the West and the USSR. We had war crime trials and executed many senior leaders in Germany and Japan. Compared to Germany and Japan, we went in with a scalpel in Iraq not inflicting a fraction of the destruction (most of the destruction was done by the insurgency after).

Most importantly - we occupied both of these countries for decades, wrote new Constitutions and still have troops there 70+ years later.

If anyone should be in jail, it should be Obama for abandoning Iraq to ISIS and chaos after less than 10 years.
37   Y   2018 Jun 13, 5:33am  

Bottom line: this.
Hassan_Rouhani says
I just don't trust the fucking commie fucks. Unless these regimes are completely dismantled they will continue playing fucking games. One look at the Russian fucks is all proof you'll ever need.
38   Y   2018 Jun 13, 5:38am  

when you have two professional liars negotiating, a concession is not a concession until it is actually implemented...
I put the odds of the 28k withdrawal about 500-1...

marcus says
He also said he would pull our 28K military personal out of SK.

I'm not judging it bad, but to deny it's a big concession ?
39   Y   2018 Jun 13, 5:41am  

Never happen until NK truly denuclearizes.
Anything said otherwise is just smoke...

Patrick says
marcus says
He also said he would pull our 28K military personal out of SK.


Woah, that's excellent if true. At least a billion dollars in savings.

Another win.
40   Y   2018 Jun 13, 5:43am  

Certainly not like the olden days...
marcus says
Isn't it great being an American ?

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