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1   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2018 Jan 29, 8:55am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

This sounds like an awful idea. In practice and the acronym they used for it: universal basic income, or UBI. This sounds like a disease. I suppose it kind of is for those that need a UBI.
2   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 29, 10:00am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag      

Whitey is a minority there. Mostly Indian, I.e., Hispanic.
3   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Jan 29, 10:00am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

The AG of California has already legitimized illegals stealing folks’ SS numbers. If Spanish speaking Indians become the majority through legal and illegal means, laws and policies will change to accommodate them.
4   FuckCCP89   ignore (6)   2018 Jan 29, 10:15am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

"Tubbs is coordinating an effort to test a new way to sustain residents: universal basic income, or UBI. For one year, several dozen Stockton families will get $500 a month, no strings attached."

How the fuck "several dozen families" is "universal"? That fucking mayor need a fucking dictionary too look up these big words.
5   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2018 Jan 29, 10:26am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Satoshi_Nakamoto says
That fucking mayor need a fucking dictionary too look up thes big words.

That's why they created the acronym UBI. They don't even need to use the words. If you say UBI and not mention the word universal, then it doesn't have to be "universal" right?
6   Goran_K   ignore (3)   2018 Jan 29, 10:31am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag      

Stockton. lol
7   Ceffer   ignore (4)   2018 Jan 29, 12:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Stockton is part of the Delta, and it has some incredibly beautiful parts with rolling hills, lagoons and boat harbors. However, they are mostly gated because the rest of Stockton is up there with Oakland and Richmond for crime and danger. They just don't publish what happens because even in the nice areas, you have guys in trucks cruising around all the time and trying out garage doors to steal every goddam thing that isn't nailed down.

They have had Asian gangs for decades. It is at the forefront for the third-worldization of California where government is irrelevant.
8   NDrLoR   ignore (1)   2018 Jan 30, 9:01am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

WookieMan says
UBI
You give me $1,000, I'll give you $1,000.
9   Booger   ignore (7)   2018 Feb 10, 9:41am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

It’s intentional.

Here’s the plan:

Raise minimum wage so that companies need to lay off workers.

Import refugees that will work off the books for low wages.

Promise government hand outs and assistance to convert unemployed conservatives to liberalism.

Get liberal votes from illegals.

Come up with great idea for “universal income” so that the unemployed support the idea cause they have no choice.

Implement universal income.

Government has now implemented communism with total control over the population.

Government can do whatever they want with guaranteed votes because of universal income and dependence on government for providing for your family.

This is the plan that will get Communism implemented.
10   FuckCCP89   ignore (6)   2018 Feb 10, 11:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Booger says
It’s intentional.

Here’s the plan:

Raise minimum wage so that companies need to lay off workers.

Import refugees that will work off the books for low wages.

Promise government hand outs and assistance to convert unemployed conservatives to liberalism.

Get liberal votes from illegals.

Come up with great idea for “universal income” so that the unemployed support the idea cause they have no choice.

Implement universal income.

Government has now implemented communism with total control over the population.

Government can do whatever they want with guaranteed votes because of universal income and dependence on government for providing for your family.

This is the plan that will get Communism implemented.


... and then the fucks will run out of money Venezuela-style....
11   Strategist   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 10, 12:03pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

... and then the fucks will run out of money Venezuela-style....


And it will all be the fault of capitalism.
12   Malcolm   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 10, 12:51pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag      

UBI seems to me, a basic form of capitalism. Even in Monopoly, everyone gets something to start out with. As population increases and efficiency increases, there is a lessening need for workers. I like a model of transitioning to a UBI, instead of multiple entitlement programs. Think about it; if you add up all of the waste in managing different programs, plus the actual benefits, there actually is no change to the budget, and the UBI can actually go up, for each individual. Individuals can then buy what they would otherwise get from the State anyway, but in the marketplace,

The problem becomes that if just one area does it, they are swamped with people looking for a handout, or a freebie. Work will one day be valuable again, because it will be voluntary. People will earn more money by becoming real capitalists, with at least a basic safety net. It won't lead to a lazy welfare state, to the contrary, I believe it leads to a more prosperous society with much more commerce. The reason the welfare state, mainly among the black communities, becomes a model of crime and misery is because the current programs are so controlling that they reward the wrong behavior. For instance, getting married to someone successful loses a benefit, going to school loses unemployment, earning too much loses free health care.

We are not a lazy society because we all had a right to free education. Why not charge for education, still mandate it, and let people shop for the best one with an income? Why not allow food stamps to be valid at restaurants? Wouldn't that help restaurants? Don't restaurants create tons of jobs? Wouldn't someone getting mental counseling maybe get a better benefit if they could just go to Disney once in a while, or maybe actually travel somewhere interesting? A large growing segment of the economy are adventure businesses. Those are the ones that put on 5Ks and sporting competitions that the public participates in. We would not need an arts endowment if people had incomes to buy art, or support performing arts. And I don't mean just the elitist circles, people with a modest income get creative, so more people would gravitate to arts and music. That is one thing that I really like about San Diego, there is unlimited, almost free entertainment. That's actually what gives an area a culture. It isn't just a bunch of minimum wage workers who live near a factory trying to eek out a living, all the while being worried that they will lose the only job available.

We need to start having a healthy debate on this issue.
13   Ceffer   ignore (4)   2018 Feb 10, 12:57pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

We could call it "Drug Dealer Subsidy" income!
14   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 10, 4:43pm     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag      

Ceffer says
We could call it "Drug Dealer Subsidy" income!

Or simply the inevitable consequence of the permanent mass unemployment that will occur in the not too distant future.
15   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 10, 5:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Malcolm says
UBI seems to me, a basic form of capitalism


I'm not really sure what captialism is, but giving everyone the same amount of money for doing nothing is the opposite of a free market, and the very definition of socialism. If you like it, move to California. 8th largest economy and we're broke due to the socialist paradise we've created.
16   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostakovitch   ignore (55)   2018 Feb 10, 7:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Again FREEDOM! is the answer!

Starving to death in the dark? Find a patriot who loves the 2nd Amendment and is armed and beg him to shoot you in the head, right behind the ear.

WIN! WIN!
17   Strategist   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 10, 7:35pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

NuttBoxer says
Malcolm says
UBI seems to me, a basic form of capitalism


I'm not really sure what captialism is, but giving everyone the same amount of money for doing nothing is the opposite of a free market, and the very definition of socialism. If you like it, move to California. 8th largest economy and we're broke due to the socialist paradise we've created.


Here is my definition of capitalism and socialism"
Capitalism is what makes most of us prosperous. Socialism is what makes only a few politicians prosperous.
I dare any socialist on this board to prove me wrong.
18   Malcolm   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 11, 1:00am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

No offense intended to anybody, but everyone starting out on the same level playing field is capitalism at its purest. Socialism just means that government owns the means of production and plans your life for you whereas what I propose here is giving people the money to do with as they will, which is the basic definition of a free market.
19   Y   ignore (3)   2018 Feb 11, 6:53am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Monopoly is a communist leisure activity...

Malcolm says
but everyone starting out on the same level playing field is capitalism at its purest.
20   Y   ignore (3)   2018 Feb 11, 6:55am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

No giving, but provide everyone the opportunity to earn.
If you need money to eat, a place to sleep, etc, make the opportunity always readily available to everyone.
Always get something of value to the community in return.
21   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 11, 7:34am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

1. Where does the money "given" to everyone come from? (Note if you use tax dollars to redistribute wealth, you are stealing from those that have money and/or earned income which is socialism).
2. When the people that you gave $ to spend and waste it all on the first of the month and go the rest of the month with no money, no food, homeless and with no health care and them come whining for more or resort to crime, what then? More handouts, or does government finally admit it can't end poverty, end homelessness or even feed everyone without stealing more money from everyone else?
22   mmmarvel   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 11, 8:22am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Malcolm says
We need to start having a healthy debate on this issue.


I've run across this issue in a number of places and no one can answer me this. When and where do we stop??? So the government will give you $1000 - so what? Will that pay for heath insurance??? I don't think so, so do we need to GIVE health care away, as a right? Then where do we stop on that (who draws the line?). Yes it's okay to have society pay for your arm got hacked off and we need to stop the bleeding, but what about the 'person' who 'feels' that they need their dick chopped off to 'feel' whole and human (and even later 'feels' the need to get one put on again)? Most would agree that having your gallbladder removed because it isn't working any more (and causing EXTREME, debilitating pain) is/would be okay, but what about the 90 year old who needs a heart transplant??

Let's go back to the $1000. What will that actually buy you? Can you get lodging with heat, sanitary, shelter? Depends on where you live. You MIGHT do okay in someplace like Casper WY (where I found, on line, a one bedroom, one bath for $475 a month) but it certainly won't get you a cardboard box in SF. And how many people would be happy living in Casper WY??? I would be fine, but I don't think a lot of people would be okay with it.

All the other questions - transportation? Internet? Cable? Cell phones? And we haven't even addressed power/water/food bills. Yes, to say okay you get $1000 is fine, but there will be thousands upon thousands who won't be able to/can't do squat with a mere $1000 a month. Not happy with the way many of the handouts are handled today, but to just give a blanket amount and step back looks (to me) like an even worse choice.
23   Malcolm   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 11, 10:50am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I think there are many valid points mmmarvel brings up. The first concern is geography. People seem to think they have a right to live in a particular zip code, then call it a housing shortage even though there are depressed neighborhoods just 25 miles away. Then I consider the misery of a hypercomminter forced to drive hours a day for a job that not only has to sustain the employee, but also a logistics nightmare. A basic income would take the pressure off of the crowded area, the employee could take a different job nearer to him or her. What are your thoughts on that part of the issue?
24   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2018 Feb 11, 11:04am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

This is like North Korea, government taxes working people, takes our money and buys votes with hand outs. Fucked up system I tell you.
25   Malcolm   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 11, 11:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

anon_0def3 says
1. Where does the money "given" to everyone come from? (Note if you use tax dollars to redistribute wealth, you are stealing from those that have money and/or earned income which is socialism).


Please take note that I don’t propose any change to the current tax structure, the money is already being spent on entitlements and administration. I propose to eliminate the administration part of the equation. Conservatives would traditionally favor this approach.
26   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 11, 11:43am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Don't know if this was mentioned already, but Stockton declared bankruptcy just a few years ago...and now they are giving money away?
27   anonymous   ignore (null)   2018 Feb 11, 3:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I guess Stockton's pension obligations are fully funded???
28   mmmarvel   ignore (0)   2018 Feb 11, 5:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Malcolm says
A basic income would take the pressure off of the crowded area, the employee could take a different job nearer to him or her. What are your thoughts on that part of the issue?


And they don't have that choice why??? Oh, because the 'close' job pays less. So you suddenly get an extra $1000 a month, what does that do? Well, it gets you a $1000 a month raise. So do you take that and work at the local WalMart? I don't think so, I think you take it, stay with the long commute times and laugh all the way to the bank. I mean you are all ready putting up with the commute times, its just now someone has given you a bonus. Sorry, I don't think even 1% would take a 'local' job just because they now get an extra $1000 a month.
29   Strategist   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 11, 8:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

P N Dr Lo R says
WookieMan says
UBI
You give me $1,000, I'll give you $1,000.


You give me $1,000 first. Thanks.
30   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 12, 11:16am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Malcolm says
I don’t propose any change to the current tax structure


So taxation is government mandated wealth re-distribution, i.e. socialism. Just to be clear, that is what you are advocating. Someone who knows better than us, taking our money, and giving to someone else, rather than that person being responsible for their own life and it's success or failure.
31   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 Feb 12, 11:19am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

anon_5130c says
Don't know if this was mentioned already, but Stockton declared bankruptcy just a few years ago...and now they are giving money away?


I know, my post title was a very intentional dig at that. Because, you know, bankrupt cities have lots of money to give away.

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