3
0

George Washington and Jefferson should be removed.


 invite response                
2017 Aug 15, 3:59pm   13,064 views  118 comments

by MisdemeanorRebel   ➕follow (12)   💰tip   ignore  

They owned slaves!

Right, Pelosi, Waters, Schumer? Let's see you guys state unequivocably they should stand or be removed.

Shit or get off the Pot with the radical AltLeft.

We have AltLeft Radicals in government removing General Lee Statues, and now AltLeft mobs are vandalizing generic Confederate Solider statues, which are public property.

Comments 1 - 40 of 118       Last »     Search these comments

1   Dan8267   2017 Aug 15, 4:48pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says

George Washington and Jefferson should be removed.

I agree. It's time we stopped deifying the founding fathers. They were greedy assholes and rapists. Both Washington and Jefferson were literally child rapists. Of course, most male slaver owners were rapists as most men who had complete control over a woman would force her to do his sexual bidding, but that's no excuse especially when the girls were between 12 and 15.

If anyone acted like the founding fathers today, they'd be shot to death without trial for pedophilia and rape.

Can't we just admit that just because King George sucked doesn't mean the revolutionaries didn't as well? America started out sucking and our entire history has been about making America a better place, and that means breaking from past practices.

2   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 4:53pm  

We have neo-Nazis using ISIS tactics like racing their cars into large crowds of Americans, murdering one and maiming dozens. What is the appropriate response?

3   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 4:54pm  

errc says

We have neo-Nazis using ISIS tactics like racing their cars into large crowds of Americans, murdering one and maiming dozens. What is the appropriate response?

We have Alt Lefties shooting Congressmen at ballgames, punching reporters, burning cars and buildings, illegally tearing down statues. What is the appropriate response?

Democrats must unambiguously denounce.

4   Dan8267   2017 Aug 15, 4:55pm  

errc says

We have neo-Nazis using ISIS tactics like racing their cars into large crowds of Americans, murdering one and maiming dozens. What is the appropriate response?

Invite them to PatNet so they can see how real assholes behave.

5   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 4:56pm  

errc says

We have neo-Nazis using ISIS tactics like racing their cars into large crowds of Americans, murdering one and maiming dozens. What is the appropriate response?

So you refuse to unambiguously denounce the AltLeft's violence and destruction?

Yes or No.

6   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 4:57pm  

Dan8267 says

I agree. It's time we stopped deifying the founding fathers. They were greedy assholes and rapists. Both Washington and Jefferson were literally child rapists. Of course, most male slaver owners were rapists as most men who had complete control over a woman would force her to do his sexual bidding, but that's no excuse especially when the girls were between 12 and 15.

Meh, not at all unusual in those days, including between whites.

But I liked your post for Honesty.

7   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 4:59pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says

errc says

We have neo-Nazis using ISIS tactics like racing their cars into large crowds of Americans, murdering one and maiming dozens. What is the appropriate response?

So you refuse to unambiguously denounce the AltLeft's violence and destruction?

Yes or No.

Link me to what you are referring to so I can answer

8   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 5:02pm  

errc says

We have neo-Nazis using ISIS tactics like racing their cars into large crowds of Americans, murdering one and maiming dozens. What is the appropriate response?

How about you answer my question, first. That's what civil people do in an honest discussion

9   Strategist   2017 Aug 15, 5:15pm  

Dan8267 says

If anyone acted like the founding fathers today, they'd be shot to death without trial for pedophilia and rape.

Can't we just admit that just because King George sucked doesn't mean the revolutionaries didn't as well? America started out sucking and our entire history has been about making America a better place, and that means breaking from past practices.

We have broken from past practices. Like you said, today, the Founding Fathers would be shot to death.
Nevertheless, their thoughts on religion and freedoms is what made America a Superpower that it is today.

10   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   2017 Aug 15, 5:23pm  

Wow. Comparing the founding father's to the traitors who fought to keep slavery legal 75 years later . Can't seem to see the difference, huh?

11   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 5:32pm  

errc says

Link me to what you are referring to so I can answer

Charlottesville: AltLeft demonstrator punches mainstream reporter, thinking she is White Nationalist - a few days ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4785564/Reporter-punched-face-Charlottesville-rally.html

Chicago: Man beaten by mob in Chicago, assailants scream "That's a White Boy" and "He Voted Trump". Racist Attack and Political Violence - November 14th, 2016
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/11/14/man-viciously-beaten-chicago-bystanders-scream-he-voted-donald-trump/93787862/
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/11/11/man-describes-brutal-attack-crowd-yelled-thats-a-white-boy-trump-supporter/
Symone Sanders says "Poor White People" in mocking tone, an endorsement of Racial and Political Violence. (includes unambiguous video)
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/14/cnn-commentator-freaks-out-oh-my-goodness-poor-white-people-video/

San Diego: Officer Assaulted , people caught on tape punching Trump Supporters, People Pelted (assault), property damaged.
Radical AltLeft Symp Mayor's City Government files few charges, holds cops back (see also Charlottesville). Video at Link.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-rally-california-20160602-story.html
www.youtube.com/embed/JC5hWfpkp1g

Chicago Again - Trump rally cancelled because of potential violence; two arrested for Battering a Police Officer. Dem Dirty Trickster Bob Creamer, who visited Obama frequently in the White House, is on tape confirming he encouraged his team there to incite the crowd.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/20/what-really-happened-with-trumps-cancelled-chicago-rally/
The NYT spins it so it's Trump Fault for even daring to hold a political rally in a major US City, as if US Election Candidates should have their speech locations determined by likelihood of Mob Violence and the Potential Violence of Anti-American, Hard Left Militants.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/12/us/trump-rally-in-chicago-canceled-after-violent-scuffles.html

Washington DC - Unprecedented Republic-threatening Protests by Alt Left on Inauguration Day. 200+ arrests, Two officers hospitalized, storefront windows damaged, rocks thrown, tear gas used, multiple arsons, and yet in a standard example of Double Standard Biased Fake news, CNN called the protests "mostly peaceful" anyway.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/19/politics/trump-inauguration-protests-womens-march/index.html

74-year old man assaulted and thrown to ground by 23-year old Black Lives Matter because he chanted "All lives matter". The Perp, an "Anti-Bullying Ambassador", is booked for Felony Assault.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3927716/Female-anti-bullying-ambassador-23-arrested-Trump-Tower-protest-pushing-man-74-ground-fight-new-President-elect.html

11-year old boy beaten and taken to the ER for supporting Trump.
http://www.fox26houston.com/news/216600137-story
Imagine if this was the other way around, we'd never, ever be allowed to hear the end of it. The Media would mention it twice a week, even a year later. That's the power of bias, baby.

US flag waver and Trump Supporter beaten by two Men.
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/2-Men-Attack-Trump-Supporter-in-Meriden-Police-400947415.html

Atlanta Man beaten to death for joking about voting for Donald Trump.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/16/atlanta-man-jokes-about-voting-for-trump-gets-shot-to-death/
Totally forgot about this one. Yet another death

Steve Scalise and Four others shot by Resistance Follower and AltLefter Bernie Bro James Hodgkinson
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/alexandria-shooting-multiple-victims-reported/
Notice how quick CNN goes to "Already a Political Football", within hours of the shooting, while they avoid any discussion of that re: Charlottesville. More Bias from Fake News.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politics/steve-scalise-shooting-political/index.html

Unsurprising, it's from Chris Cilliza, the guy who said 100s of pages of McCains Medical History weren't enough, then years later told everybody it was out of line to ask for Hillary's Medical Records -- a one-page letter of vague "good health" from her personal physician was more than enough, anything more was political.

That's all for now, more digging later.

Where do these people get the idea that political violence is okay? From Hollywood, from Rappers, and Academia. They must unambiguously disavow Political Violence in no uncertain terms. Long overdue.

12   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 5:37pm  

Where do these people get the idea that political violence is okay

-------------

Is there anything more American? This country was born of political violence. Why are you attempting to re-write history?

13   Dan8267   2017 Aug 15, 5:39pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Meh, not at all unusual in those days, including between whites.

Ah, but that gets right to the point. Does commonness excuse atrocities? I think not. Some examples...

It was commonplace in Nazi Germany to murder Jews. Should Nazis not have been prosecuted for these crimes?

It was commonplace in the Catholic Church to molest boys. Should those priests not be prosecuted?

It is commonplace in Africa to kidnap boys and turn them into blood-lusting soldiers. Should not such kidnappers be punished?

It is commonplace for young women to lie about rape and sexual assault. Should not they be prosecuted?

Something being commonplace in a culture does not excuse its moral atrociousness. In the very least, we should not look up to people committing such despicable acts no matter how common or culturally acceptable those acts were.

14   HEY YOU   2017 Aug 15, 6:42pm  

A good solution to all the two party political fighting would be solved if All Republicans & Democrats, DIE NOW!

15   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 6:53pm  

@Thunderlips. Weak Sauce. Why is it so hard to produce proof that Charlottesville was chocked full of violent leftists?

You're only link to anything Charlottesville, is Daily Mail click bait of one guy allegedly "punching " some feminist who claims to be Media, AFTER THE NEO NAZI HAD JUST SLAMMED HIS CAR INTO THE CROWD, MURDERING AN INNOCENT AMERICAN GIRL. I thought that the Soros bussed in Antifa people were inciting violence?

One guy allegedly punching some lady after the car slammed into the crowd, is hardly evidence.

How about you try again.

Charlottesville. Focus

16   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 6:56pm  

Everyone is holding cameras in all the pictures I've seen. Recording everything all the time

One would think it the Republicans claims were true, and Antifa was there inciting violence, there should be some footage, no? Like, lots and lots of it.

I've seen a bunch of footage of the Neo Nazi Trump supporter slamming his car into the crowd. And this was a sneak attack from behind by a coward. Still, there's tons of footage.

Where's the proof that Antifa was there en masse, inciting violence?

17   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 6:57pm  

Dan8267 says

It was commonplace in Nazi Germany to murder Jews. Should Nazis not have been prosecuted for these crimes?

It was not commonplace before that.

Dan8267 says

It was commonplace in the Catholic Church to molest boys. Should those priests not be prosecuted?

It's not acceptable in society while it was happening and later when the accusers came out. The accusers were punished, and the organization sued.

All of the other things are unacceptable NOW. In the US Civil War, most civilizations in the world openly practiced Slavery. It was the United Kingdom that ended Slavery worldwide. Had there been no British Imperialism, Slavery would probably openly exist today, rather than semi-secretly like in Qatar or Mauretania. Was British imperialism a good thing? I think so. Had there been no British Empire, India would be a land of petty warring tyrant states or under the thumb of an Islamic Caliphate, like it pretty much always was, instead of a Democracy.

Should we destroy all statues of Socrates because he liked to fondle teenage boys? Acceptable in his day.

Anti-Slavery was very much a new thing in the entire world when the Civil War was fought, a concept barely a generation or two old, and solely conceived of and first placed into action by the unequaled, unmatched glory of Western Civilization.

18   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 7:02pm  

errc says

@Thunderlips. Weak Sauce. Why is it so hard to produce proof that Charlottesville was chocked full of violent leftists?

Unbelievable strong. Compare the violence to previous elections.

You asked me to produce evidence of Left Wing Violence. I provided a ton. Another one; That lady who drove a Congressman off the road, I just remembered.

After several deaths of Dallas Cops (ANOTHER one I forgot to mention - multiple cops assassinated) by a avid BLM Follower, attempted murder of 5 people including a Congressman with the Alt Left Bernie Volunteer perp, people getting beaten for wearing the hat of a major party political candidate, and the constant references to violence from Madonna to the Cast of Hamilton, and the absolute false demonization of Trump as Hitler endorsed by Lady Gagme, Miley Cyrus, Sarah Silverman, etc. - not to mention Academia's War on Unpopular Speech and White Males generally - where DO these people get their violent ideas from?

I'm waiting on the rest of the Board to weigh in.

19   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 7:06pm  

errc says

You're only link to anything Charlottesville, is Daily Mail click bait of one guy allegedly "punching " some feminist who claims to be Media, AFTER THE NEO NAZI HAD JUST SLAMMED HIS CAR INTO THE CROWD, MURDERING AN INNOCENT AMERICAN GIRL. I thought that the Soros bussed in Antifa people were inciting violence?

If you go by body count, the AltLeft - with multiple perps clearly connected to BLM and AltLeft Thinking - is wayyy more than the right since the last campaign season began

Much like Islamic Attacks, the media writes off the identity and motivation of "Cool, Non-White" Attackers as soon as possible, concentrates instead on any potential missteps "that could have prevented it", and concentrates on potential blowback to innocent Muslims.

Has the media mentioned the potential of blowback on innocent Trump Supporters? I don't even know if it's been mentioned at all, and nowhere near the degree when it's left or Islamic violence.

Very sad.

20   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 7:24pm  

So that's a lot of words, yet still NOT ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE OF LEFTIST VIOLENCE IN CHARLOTTESVILLE PRIOR TO THE ISIS STYLE ATTACK BY THE TRUMP SUPPORTING NEO NAZI?!?!

This is getting strange.

A thinking person might start wondering, if it even exists.

21   lostand confused   2017 Aug 15, 8:07pm  

Just like the taliban who destroyed those Budhha statues in Afghanistan. No wonder lefties love the jihadis-they are of the same mindset.

22   Y   2017 Aug 15, 8:09pm  

Another lie.
The founding fathers did not find jack shit.
The indians found this chunk of earth...

Dan8267 says

I agree. It's time we stopped deifying the founding fathers.

23   Y   2017 Aug 15, 8:14pm  

Which is why georgies shut down, another sign of Trump MAGA!!

Dan8267 says

America started out sucking and our entire history has been about making America a better place, and that means breaking from past practices.

24   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 8:14pm  

lostand confused says

Just like the taliban who destroyed those Budhha statues in Afghanistan. No wonder lefties love the jihadis-they are of the same mindset.

Just like the Trump Supporter Nazis that slammed the car into a crowd of innocent Americans. Eerily similar to ISIS in so many ways, they're indistinguishable

25   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 8:19pm  

errc says

So that's a lot of words, yet still NOT ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE OF LEFTIST VIOLENCE IN CHARLOTTESVILLE PRIOR TO THE ISIS STYLE ATTACK BY THE TRUMP SUPPORTING NEO NAZI?!?!

BONK.

"There was no police presence," Brittany Caine-Conley, a minister in training who locked arms with other clergy members in counter-protest, told The New York Times. "We were watching people punch each other; people were bleeding all the while police were inside of barricades at the park, watching. It was essentially just brawling on the street and community members trying to protect each other."

Princeton professor and activist Cornel West, who was also at the protest, told The Washington Post "the police didn't do anything in terms of protecting the people of the community, the clergy."

The Unite The Right rally's organizer, Jason Kessler, was also critical. "Charlottesville refused to honor permit as ordered by a federal judge. CPD didn't even show up until 1.5 hrs into the permit," he tweeted. "Inside the park was peaceful. Outbreaks of violence occurred where police refused to separate or even pushed the feuding groups together."

White nationalist Richard Spencer, another organizer, said the police had failed to protect the people who had gathered for the rally. "We came here as a demonstration of our movement," Spencer told the Post. "And we were effectively thrown to the wolves."

The ACLU's Hastings also criticized the policing on Saturday, which she said "was not designed to be ... effective in preventing violence."

"I was there and brought concerns directly to the Secretary of Public Safety and the head of the State Police," said Hastings. "They did not respond. In fact, law enforcement was standing passively by, waiting for violence to take place, so that they would have grounds to declare an emergency, declare an 'unlawful assembly' and clear the area."


http://wbaa.org/post/charlottesville-violence-highlights-cities-struggle-balance-rights-and-safety#stream/0

There you go, reports of people punching each other from a minister who was almost certainly anti-White Supremacist. Also reports from White Supremacists/Nationalists. And then you've got ACLU criticizing the police passivity. So you've got reps of 2 groups indicating there was violence on all sides and 3 groups criticizing Corrupt Crony McAuliffe.

Nothing like a moment of chaos to blame on TRUMPHITLER! After all, the Governor is a top, if not the top, Clinton Crony.

Or Just pre-emptively ban speech

McAuliffe argues officials need help from the courts if governments are to maintain public safety while allowing people to exercise their First Amendment rights.

"We've got to get a better understanding with these judges to understand our job is to keep our community safe," he said. "The judiciary needs to do a better job of working with us."


Either works for an Oligarch Associate.

Keeping in mind Charlottesville and Virginia had weeks to prepare.

26   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 8:23pm  

More accounts of mutual violence, again before the Psycho crashed the car:

Neo-Nazis, skinheads, Ku Klux Klan members other white supremacists made their way to the park at the same time as counter-protesters, and the two sides clashed. People threw punches, screamed, set off smoke bombs, hurled water bottles and unleashed chemical sprays. Some came prepared for a fight, with body armor and helmets. Others darted around, trying to avoid the chaos.

“I’ve never seen that kind of hatred up front. It was pretty raw, pretty coarse,” scholar and activist Cornel West, one of the most high-profile counter-protesters, told The Associated Press in an interview Sunday.


http://helotesecho.com/charlottesville-virginia-ripped-open-by-weekend-violence/

Here's your chemical sprays. I see a fat guy who seems to fit a white supremacist, and a black guy who I have a feeling isn't a White Supremacist.

And of course, similar AltLeft violence has happened in Berkeley, Portland, and elsewhere.

27   lostand confused   2017 Aug 15, 8:25pm  

errc says

Just like the Trump Supporter Nazis that slammed the car into a crowd of innocent Americans. Eerily similar to ISIS in so many ways, they're indistinguishable

Nah, not even Trump supprots thatguy and neither do most Trump supporters. but when a jihadi kills people dems and Obama can't bear to call it radical islam. When leftie goons bloodied and bruised Trump supporters, violently disturbed his rally-where were you lefties condemning such behavior. When antifa burns down Berkley-because a gay person speaks-where were you lefties. When the leftie shot and seriously injured congressmen-where were you lefties> When leftie shoot at pickup trucks with MAGA stickers -where is the outrage??/

That is why the left is far more dangerous. When someone who is perceived on the right does something horrible-condemnation is swift and immediate.

But when lefties terrorize, kill ,maim, shoot-lefties refuse to show the same outrage-that si dangerous-because it means you accept violence against people whose only crime is to express freedom of thought.

Only trump has the courage to publicly point that-he is what this nation needs to fight the terror of the left from imposing their terrifying belief system on us. Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, venezuela, Cuba are all examples of what happens when leftie ideology takes over completely.

28   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 8:28pm  

lostand confused says

Nah, not even Trump supprots thatguy and neither do most Trump supporters. but when a jihadi kills people dems and Obama can't bear to call it radical islam.

This is a key difference.

Imagine if Trump said "Nazism and White Supremacy is a peaceful ideology, the vast, vast majority of neo-nazis and Klan members/followers never kill anybody. What happened here was a mentally ill individual who was misled about the True Nature of 1488 and the positive nature of White Pride Worlwide."

The Oligarchs and their PR Team, the Legacy Media, wants Americans to believe that all Trump supporters are Neo-Nazis. They may be desperate enough to start a race war.

29   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 8:41pm  

More AltLeft violence:

The despicable bitch's defense is that opposing fascism is no crime. Well, she's not being charged with opposing fascism. She's being charged with assault. No one has the right to commit assault. She's lucky the cops didn't break her arms while taking her down. Many others aren't so lucky.


This is Dan's thread about the bitch who thinks she has the right to assault people for what she believes is double plus ungoodthink (if the person she attacked is a fascist to begin with, I don't know)
http://patrick.net/1308921/2017-08-12-berkeley-teacher-filmed-punching-man-at-protest-arraigned-in-sacramento

Here's another AltLeft Radical, this one a Teacher, and also from California.

A former community college professor has been arrested in connection with using a U-shaped bicycle lock to violently attack several people during an April pro-Trump rally in Berkeley, California.

Eric Clanton, a former adjunct professor of philosophy at Diablo Valley College in Pleasant Hill, was arrested in Oakland on three counts of suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon that isn’t a firearm and assault causing great bodily injury, East Bay Times reported.

Video of one of the attacks during an April 15 demonstration at Civic Center Park in Berkeley, showing a man gushing blood from a strike to the head, went viral in the days following clashes between Trump supporters and so-called anti-fascists. Police said Thursday that the video ultimately helped them in identifying Mr. Clanton, the Times reported.

Berkeley police said Mr. Clanton is suspected of “violent assaults” on three people, who received “significant injuries” in the attacks.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/26/eric-clanton-former-calif-professor-arrested-in-vi/

All of these, like most of my other examples, predate Charlottesville by months.

Democratic Leaders and Hollywood Lefties must disavow.

#AltLeftViolence

30   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 8:47pm  

That is why the left is far more dangerous. When someone who is perceived on the right does something horrible-condemnation is swift and immediate.

But when lefties terrorize, kill ,maim, shoot-lefties refuse to show the same outrage-that si dangerous-because it means you accept violence against people whose only crime is to express freedom of thought.

---------------

I disagree. I've seen right wing lemmings explaining away the atrocities committed by the Nazis in Virginia this weekend...

Yea but Antifa in Cal blah blah

Yea but Alt Leftists (whatever that's supposed to covefe) forced the poor white Neo Nazi victim to speed his car into a crowd of innocent Americans, just like ISIS commands.

Here's what an appropriate response would look like:

"That was terrible and we disavow the Neo Nazis and their hateful acts"

Fin

Instead, y'all are bending over backwards to explain it away, and respond with a plethora of "yea, buts". Grow up and get a clue. You don't have to march lockstep with Trump on everything, all the time. Pause, take a step back, and reflect. Ask yourself, what the hell am I defending here, and why?

31   anonymous   2017 Aug 15, 8:50pm  

This is Dan's thread about the bitch who thinks she has the right to assault people for what she believes is double plus ungoodthink (if the person she attacked is a fascist to begin with, I don't know)
http://patrick.net/1308921/2017-08-12-berkeley-teacher-filmed-punching-man-at-protest-arraigned-in-sacramento
Here's another AltLeft Radical, this one a Teacher, and also from California.

-------------

Wow just wow, yous are right. Feminism has destroyed this country. A man gets punched by some wimpy broad, and he pressed charges. I'm tipping you've never been in a fight. Very beta of the Trumpcucks, but no big surprise

32   lostand confused   2017 Aug 15, 8:53pm  

errc says

Pause, take a step back, and reflect. Ask yourself, what the hell am I defending here, and why?

That should be you. Who here is defending that murdering lunatic. All we are saying is he is evil-so is antifa, BLM and the violent thugs who do far worse-like shoot up congressman, shoot at pick truck with MAGA stickers-with driver in said truck.
It is you who absolutely cannot refuse to accept the dangerous violence in the left.

nobody is saying what this fellow did is right, but no one the left is accepting that the left is committing far greater violence-shooting and killing -that you folks absolutely refuse to accept.

Only Trump has the courage to accept it openly-despite the hate the left flings at him-that is courage. The dam will break soem day-the sooner the better-when it becomes ok to have the same level of revulsion at a leftie madman as it is on rightie madman.

33   Dan8267   2017 Aug 15, 9:17pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says

It was not commonplace before that.

The same can be said of slavery. There was a time before it was common.

In any case, commonness does not excuse villainy, and future generations should not ignore such despicableness simply because it was common at the time. A hero, by definition, is not common and being heroic means not doing the common.

34   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 10:55pm  

Dan8267 says

In any case, commonness does not excuse villainy, and future generations should not ignore such despicableness simply because it was common at the time. A hero, by definition, is not common and being heroic means not doing the common.

Look at the Drug War. What if one day 50 years from now, when the war ends, people say "JFK didn't do enough to end the Drug War. In fact, he increased narcotics enforcement. Let's tear down all his memorials. Nevermind all his other stances and accomplishments."

I think people oughta be judged by the standards of their time. If they did some good by the standards of our time, that's extra credit. It was politically impossible for Jefferson and Washington to get rid of slavery. They did leave behind a pretty good system that provided the basis for making things better, economically and in terms of Personal Freedom.

35   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 10:57pm  

lostand confused says

nobody is saying what this fellow did is right, but no one the left is accepting that the left is committing far greater violence-shooting and killing -that you folks absolutely refuse to accept.

I'd be happy if they admitted that the Alt / Conservative Left is committing political violence against ordinary citizens (not just cops at a G8 meeting like they usually do).

Soros has done a great job redirecting them from opposition to Globaloney to fighting "Fascism" who just happens to be a moderate economic nationalist, what Soros detests the most.

36   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Aug 15, 11:08pm  

@Rew @Bob

I want to hear their Yes or No answer.

YesYNot says

Wow. Comparing the founding father's to the traitors who fought to keep slavery legal 75 years later . Can't seem to see the difference, huh?

So some slave owners were okay, but others are not?

How about Margaret Sanger -- the Eugenicist who believed Blacks an inferior race? Can we remove any public memorials to her? Rename streets? She was roughly contemporary with Hitler, who also was a eugenicist and racist.

I disagree with Dan about the moral culpability in different times. However, he ponied up an cogent, consistent viewpoint. I'm struggling to see yours.

37   Dan8267   2017 Aug 15, 11:46pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Look at the Drug War. What if one day 50 years from now, when the war ends, people say "JFK didn't do enough to end the Drug War. In fact, he increased narcotics enforcement. Let's tear down all his memorials. Nevermind all his other stances and accomplishments."

Considering the effects of the drug war, that may be reasonable. There are things called deal killers. A hundred rights can be outweighed by one atrocity.

Perhaps instead of building monuments to people, we should build monuments to ideas.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

I think people oughta be judged by the standards of their time.

Just because an evil is accepted by the ruling class of a time does not mean the people don't know that it's evil. The victims of the evil would most certainly have had different standards.

Again, should there be monuments to women who falsely accuse men or rape? Maybe some of those women also do other things like protest against an unjust war, but I would still not build a statue of them. The fact that their acts are common does not excuse it.

Slavery and genocides are deal killers no matter how much good those responsible do on the side. As to JFK and the drug war, that's up to history to decide. My understanding is that the drug war as a way of creating political prisoners started with Nixon in the 1970s.

38   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   2017 Aug 16, 3:38am  

TwoScoopsMcGee says

So some slave owners were okay, but others are not?

...

I disagree with Dan about the moral culpability in different times. However, he ponied up an cogent, consistent viewpoint. I'm struggling to see yours.

You are struggling to see my point, because you are being dishonest about what other people are saying. You are doing the exact thing that you accuse CNN of doing. You are pretending that the Lee statue was taken down, because the guy had slaves, which Jefferson and Washington also had. That's simply not true. It's bullshit. The statue of R.E. Lee was not taken down because the guy had slaves. It was taken down, because it was a revisionist statue erected in 1924 (60 years after the war) in an effort to keep the racist fuckers happy and continue to terrorize blacks. It was put up during a time when blacks were regularly lynched and were in no way equals under the law.

If the so-called 'alt-left' were going to go after Jefferson, they would have stolen the tiki torches from the Nazis and walked up the hill to torch Monticello. They didn't do that. If you go to Washington, the big monuments that you see on the mall are Lincoln and Washington. Lincoln is famous for keeping the Union together and fighting for what we know see so plainly as the just cause of getting rid of slavery. Washington is famous for fighting the Brittish to earn our freedom and being our first president. If you keep looking on the mall you will find monuments to people who fought and died in Vietnam, Korea, and WWII. If you keep walking around the tidal basin, you will find monuments to MLK, FDR, and Jefferson. MLK is famous for leading a peaceful civil rights movement and having courage and wisdom in the face of adversity. FDR is famous for leading us out of the Depression and to victory in WWII. At this point Jefferson may be most famous for the contradiction of slave ownership and writings about freedom. You can find this and many other quote right in his memorial. "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men." There are many books about this contradiction, and it is a big part of the tours you will find if you visit Monticello. There are literally many books written about Jefferson in this way. He was an embodiment of our country, though, which also has those contradictions written into our founding documents and even affecting our institutions like the electoral college to this day. We make a point of explicitly delineating what was profound and good from the parts of society (and Jefferson's behavior) that were tragically wrong. So, the point of this trip down monument lane in DC is to show that in our capital, we have a range of monuments to the founding fathers (two most famous), to our war heroes who gave us and helped maintain our freedom, and to those who fought for civil rights. There's room for a few more, IMO, but they don't go up easily. Note, that there are no monuments to General Lee or anybody else who fought for the South's right to own slaves in DC. There is a reason for that. It's because the statues of Lee represent something entirely different than the monuments to Jefferson and Washington and others on the mall.

If you truly cannot see the difference here, then we have some sort of fundamental problem. There is a reason that the ex-KKK leader (Duke) and his current-day mentees cannot see the difference. It is because the South's generals were heroes to them just as much as Jefferson and Washington were. But then they wish that slavery were still legal. Trump is pretending to not see the difference, because he wants to scare people into thinking that their whole society is being attacked.

39   lostand confused   2017 Aug 16, 4:59am  

YesYNot says

The statue of R.E. Lee was not taken down because the guy had slaves. It was taken down, because it was a revisionist statue erected in 1924 (60 years after the war) in an effort to keep the racist fuckers happy and continue to terrorize blacks. It was put up during a time when blacks were regularly lynched and were in no way equals under the law.

Oh please. Like you lived in 1924. Now the lefties want Teddy Roosevelt statue to be taken down. Oh they also want Columbus day to be called indigenous day. You guys-LOL!!!
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/08/next-came-teddy-alt-left-demands-new-york-museum-remove-teddy-roosevelt-statue/

40   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   2017 Aug 16, 5:13am  

lostand confused says

Oh please. Like you lived in 1924.

Now you pretend that one has to be alive to know what happened during an era that was less than 100 years ago. That's an 'interesting' point of view. I'd lolz if it were not so sad.

Comments 1 - 40 of 118       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions