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How much money do you need to retire?


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2017 Feb 18, 9:53am   14,833 views  40 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

I'd say that you just need enough so that your investment income exceeds your expenses.

But then you could also spend down according to your life expectancy. No point in being the richest guy in the graveyard.

So you can actually retire without enough investment income to pay your expenses.

#investing

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1   Ceffer   2017 Feb 18, 10:39am  

Why not just look up the Internet Caligulan Splendor Calculator?

2   Ceffer   2017 Feb 18, 10:46am  

The only real way to know this is to have to exact day you (and/or your spouse) are going to die and what the state of your health will be over that time. I suppose you don't want so much money that somebody will kidnap you for ransom, but not so little that you don't have reasonable access to a middle class existence with travel, amenities etc.

Most of the retirement grifters just want your money to make them money, so they don't really want you to spend it, and act like you need enough for a 4,000 sq. ft mansion on the ninth fairway, with country club dinners every night and exotic travel packages once a month.

Most people actually become simpler and more abstemious as they age, and don't want to take care of an obnoxious, flashy pile of boards and mortar.

It is amazing the number of people, even educated ones, who just don't think about it and have the idea that relatively small savings amount will be enough.

3   Strategist   2017 Feb 18, 10:48am  

Patrick says

I'd say that you just need enough so that your investment income exceeds your expenses.

Investment income + 401K's + SS should exceed your expenses.

4   Dan8267   2017 Feb 18, 10:49am  

Patrick says

I'd say that you just need enough so that your investment income exceeds your expenses.

You have to factor in unforeseen expenses including medical expenses, which can be very high near end of life.

5   Dan8267   2017 Feb 18, 10:52am  

Patrick says

How much money do you need to retire?

This depends on where you want to live when you retire. Working in an expensive area like NYC or Silicon Valley and then retiring to the boondocks or a central or south American country is a good strategy if you don't mind living well in a poor country where few people speak English. But if you want to spend your golden years in a nice place where other people also want to live or where you lived your entire adult life while working, it's going to be a lot more expensive.

7   Ceffer   2017 Feb 18, 11:01am  

I take that back. Just consult the "Goddam, I Am So Fucking Fucked" calculator on the internet.

8   Patrick   2017 Feb 18, 11:19am  

Ceffer says

The only real way to know this is to have to exact day you (and/or your spouse) are going to die and what the state of your health will be over that time.

Yes, this is the hard part to predict. Could die next year, or could live to 102.

If it's next year, I want to have a fucking huge party every day until then.

9   Tenpoundbass   2017 Feb 18, 11:43am  

I don't plan on retiring. To enjoy what? Margarittaville with $9 beers, and crappy DJ's, $16 parking at the Beach if the garage isn't full, Hip Hop in Irish bars?
What me cruising along in a classic convertible Detroit era ride, with my Bermuda shorts, Lemmon Chiffon shirt, on my way to the Post office and community center to play Dominos.
To be harrased by punks on the way, because Bernie sanders told them I robbed their money from them, because I'm on a fixed income.

Fuck that, I'll be driving to work, and I'll pull my gun on them and tell them to fuck off. And get out my way assholes! I'm on my way to work so I can pay taxes, so you idiots can bitch about the responsible adults.

10   Patrick   2017 Feb 18, 11:51am  

I don't plan on retiring to do nothing either.

I just want freedom from having a boss.

Then I'll work on patrick.net all day.

11   Blurtman   2017 Feb 18, 11:52am  

rando says

If it's next year, I want to have a fucking huge party every day until then.

And then on the last day, test drive the most expensive car you can find, ask the salesman to step out, and head right toward that reinforced concrete barrier at maximum speed.

12   Dan8267   2017 Feb 18, 1:42pm  

rando says

Then I'll work on patrick.net all day.

As we all have proven during the past ten years, you don't have to quit your job to spend all day on PatNet.

13   Dan8267   2017 Feb 18, 1:47pm  

Best retirement plan... Run for president appealing to the lunatic fringe. Embezzle like crazy from your campaign. If you win the election, have your son-in-law run the country while you embezzle from the tax payers. Spend your days tweeting about how mean everyone is to you.

14   FortWayne   2017 Feb 18, 3:22pm  

In every retirement plan they always like to assume 8% return rate, while reality is closer to 4% when all is averaged out.

15   Tenpoundbass   2017 Feb 18, 3:43pm  

rando says

I just want freedom from having a boss.

Then in that case I'll consider my self retired when I leave this company and can market my kickass Middleware I brought with me.

16   CBOEtrader   2017 Feb 18, 4:39pm  

a camper van and an etsy shop

17   OneTwo   2017 Feb 18, 4:50pm  

I imagine a lot of people will get income from down-sizing/moving to cheaper areas. There are probably a lot of people on here who can sell up and move to a (potentially) nicer area and save a considerable amount of money in the process - Silicon valley hotspots to say Monterey would be a pleasant switch in retirement (if you like a bit more nature of course) and that would bring you a fair chunk of change and still be within driving distance of friends/family. I'm sure the same applies all over the country.

18   OneTwo   2017 Feb 18, 4:53pm  

Tenpoundbass says

My black buddy I mention here, get's 3 grand a month in disablity. He still has to work at Jimmy Johns to make ends meet.

Is he paying rent? $3,000 with no rental payments sounds fine to me. The older I get, the less I actually seem to spend in many ways. I can imagine being retired and spending next to nothing (certainly if I wasn't fit enough to travel).

19   Booger   2017 Feb 18, 7:27pm  

How much (in today's dollars) is it going to cost to live in Caligulan splendor for 30 years?

20   Booger   2017 Feb 18, 7:35pm  

My best guess is about 3.5 million in liquid assets, plus a house you own that is fixed up to your liking. No debt of any kind, and some sort of medical and dental plan paid for (even though you do pay for Medicare, that would suffice). For planning purposes, living till 90.

21   RealEstateIsBetterThanStocks   2017 Feb 18, 7:42pm  

i will retire in a poorer country. get more bang for my buck that way.

just need to find a town with a decent hospital.

it won't be un-American because i will have paid a lot of taxes already.

22   Booger   2017 Feb 18, 7:50pm  

Ironman says

Booger says

For planning purposes, living till 90.

Why?? That doesn't sound like any fun

You pretty much have to pick a number, so I am picking 90.

23   Ceffer   2017 Feb 18, 8:03pm  

It also depends on how young you are. The younger you are, and the younger you want to retire, the more money you'll need. If you retire in your 50's, you'll need a lot more, unless, of course your are in one of those cushy gov jobs that cover all your insurance with the pension. 2 million now won't be the same 2 million in 10, 15, or 25 years.

24   Patrick   2017 Feb 18, 8:26pm  

Booger says

My best guess is about 3.5 million in liquid assets, plus a house you own that is fixed up to your liking. No debt of any kind, and some sort of medical and dental plan paid for (even though you do pay for Medicare, that would suffice). For planning purposes, living till 90.

$3.5M would put you between the 95th and 99th percentiles:

Surely some people beneath the 95th percentile are able to retire, aren't they?

25   Booger   2017 Feb 19, 5:47am  

rando says

Surely some people beneath the 95th percentile are able to retire, aren't they?

Anyone with a defined benefit pension plan, like a government worker, can retire with little or no assets. Everything is already paid for then by the taxpayers. For everyone else, yes you need a shitload of money unless you are going to work until you drop dead or maybe only retire for a few years. I plan on being retired for at least 20 years.

Besides that, I'm guessing that 3.5 million is an amount that most Patneters can obtain during the working lifetime.

26   MrEd   2017 Feb 19, 6:09am  

hmmm.

Booger says

You pretty much have to pick a number, so I am picking 90.

27   Booger   2017 Feb 19, 6:14am  

I'd like to see some of your retirement numbers

28   anonymous   2017 Feb 19, 7:11am  

If you can pay off your house so that it's only fixed costs are taxes and insurance, than all you need is an income stream to cover your needs and you can free yourself from the boss.

29   Tenpoundbass   2017 Feb 19, 7:17am  

Rashomon says

Is he paying rent? $3,000 with no rental payments sounds fine to me. The older I get, the less I actually seem to spend in many ways. I can imagine being retired and spending next to nothing (certainly if I wasn't fit enough to travel).

He bought a house a few years ago. Being a Vet, and disabled he gets tax, and interest breaks. He's doing better than renting in his case, only because of that.
He's a walking disabled person btw.
He was ordered to do some things, and saw somethings. Then when he read the news the next day and saw the reality of what he did. Did not match the objective of the orders. When he mentioned to his officers about his suspicions. They gave him a PSD disability before there was even a name for it. They discharged him and he was stateside within a week.

30   Strategist   2017 Feb 19, 8:08am  

rando says

Excellent chart. they should come up with one for retirees only. I would expect retirees to have a higher net worth than the rest of the population.

31   missing   2017 Feb 19, 9:42am  

Strategist says

I would expect retirees to have a higher net worth than the rest of the population.

Maybe in developed countries... And then a lot of that net worth is locked in real estate.

32   Ceffer   2017 Feb 19, 12:04pm  

It is a sacred duty to spread the superior attributes of the enlightened, sanctifying balm to the impoverished, benighted heathen races.

33   missing   2017 Feb 19, 2:24pm  

Also vacationing in Turkey - cheap (from Europe) and just amazing!

Red Sea in Egypt used to be a very popular destination from western European countries until recently...

Then camping in southern France, Italy, Corsica, the Greek Islands - nothing comparable here in the States.

34   Jimbo in SF   2017 Feb 20, 7:32pm  

Booger says

My best guess is about 3.5 million in liquid assets

I'm aiming for roughly the same number - about $4mm. At 5% withdrawal, that should be $200K yearly salary.

35   Patrick   2017 Feb 20, 7:44pm  

Jimbo in SF says

At 5% withdrawal, that should be $200K yearly salary.

OK, that's 20 years of withdrawals. But if you live longer, you'll need more. Or do you mean 5% return?

$200K sounds like more than anyone really needs to live. I'm thinking $80K per year would do for me.

36   Jimbo in SF   2017 Feb 20, 7:51pm  

rando says

Jimbo in SF says

At 5% withdrawal, that should be $200K yearly salary.

OK, that's 20 years of withdrawals. But if you live longer, you'll need more. Or do you mean 5% return?

5% return on the $4mm might cover yearly withdrawal, that's the goal.

$200K sounds like more than anyone really needs to live. I'm thinking $80K per year would do for me.

I think this might be a more likely outcome, but I'd live in Spain or Portugal under this scenario.

Also, $80k today might be do-able ... but you might need $200K in 20 or 25 years.

37   Heraclitusstudent   2017 Feb 21, 11:39am  

zzyzzx says

Why is living next to Turkey so bad?
Does infographic take into account Greek taxes?

For Greece:
You have to learn the language and also to read/write the local alphabet.
And prepare for what will happen when they exit the euros.

For Macedonia: you have to learn Macedonian and also a new alphabet. But hey... old people need to work their brains.
It's not next to Turkey, just close to it.

38   Dan8267   2017 Feb 21, 12:53pm  

Strategist says

It's not the Black Sea that caught my attention.

Once you go Black Sea, you never go backsie.

39   Ceffer   2017 Feb 21, 2:21pm  

Dan8267 says

Tall, check.

Thin, check.

Blonde, check.

Not overly large breasts, check.

You forgot the "mean, drunken Russkie pimp, check."

40   Strategist   2017 Feb 21, 6:11pm  

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

It's not the Black Sea that caught my attention.

Once you go Black Sea, you never go backsie.

hhmmmm, never tried "Black Sea" How does it taste?

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