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Why are consitutional rights not enforced in the workplace?


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2016 Feb 14, 7:59pm   9,179 views  22 comments

by resistance   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Freedom of speech means exactly and only freedom of offensive speech.

Speech which offends no one does not need any protection, and never did. The essence of freedom of speech is that it applies specifically to speech others do not want to hear, or do not want you to say to third parties.

You might say that the workplace is a private space, so constitutional rights do not apply, but why should that be? Workers have many other rights in the workplace, so why do they have to give up their constitutional right to free speech as soon as they walk in the door? Most people are obligated to work for others to live, so to demand that they give up their rights in a place they are economically required to be in is clearly wrong. And freedom of speech is the most important freedom. It is the first amendment. Without it, all other rights are harmed.

I propose that the constitution should actually be enforced as the law of the land, even in the workplace. No one should be fired or censured in the workplace for any speech that would be legally allowed in public.

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1   FortWayne   2016 Feb 14, 8:24pm  

This is an interesting topic resistance. And I'm all for it, however debate needs more than one side.

Isn't "freedom" also freedom to fire any asshole who you don't like to work as well? I think my question is, what kind of speech should be protected? Say political disagreements, religious objections? And what falls into the "anything goes" category?

2   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2016 Feb 14, 8:31pm  

Some people get exceptional constitutional rights in the workplace while others get none.
And you are only queen for a President's term. Then you're spat out and the next politically expedient token takes your place.
at one point in the 80's you couldn't fire a fat person without fear of getting a discrimination lawsuit. But they over did it and a Judge ruled against a fat lady.
Now not only can you fire them for being fat, you can send them a Richard Simmons dance agram while you tell them. Now we're on to VH1-Visa workers and their right to piss in your coffee and stand next to your desk while they place their penis in your ear, and the prohibition of you doing dickall about it.

3   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 Feb 14, 8:41pm  

resistance says

I propose that the constitution should actually be enforced as the law of the land, even in the workplace. No one should be fired or censured in the workplace for any speech that would be legally allowed in public.

This is absolutely correct. If your speech does not DIRECTLY interfere with your work, ie you are a cashier who lectures every customer about religion or politics, then it's good.

An IT Guy's political, religious, whatever perspective should have nothing to do with anything unless he tells a co-worker he's going to kill them.

4   mell   2016 Feb 15, 7:02am  

Good post.

5   JasonM   2016 Feb 15, 9:00am  

Sounds great til you try to get rid of the au pair who you find out has been indoctrinating your kids with Feminazi poison.

Me - Sorry Gina we are gonna have to let you go.
Gina - HUH, just last Xmas you guys gave me that bonus, gushing about how I was the best Au Pair ever. Nothing has changed other than the fact that you found out what I was saying and didnt like it. You cant fire me asshole - free speech! Now sit there silently, pay me, and watch me turn your kids into IHLs!

6   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 Feb 15, 9:02am  

I don't know, I think this is important because it is probably the best way to stomp out Diversity Brainwashing in the Workplace. The only other way would be union rules.

7   Entitlemented   2016 Feb 15, 9:05am  

resistance says

I propose that the constitution should actually be enforced as the law of the land, even in the workplace. No one should be fired or censured in the workplace for any speech that would be legally allowed in public.

Why work at all? We could have Lawyers in the workplace, that already we have created so many barriers to anything productive, that the Lawyers like the devil himself, tempt people to not be productive. If you look around at the workplace, and at the colleges, we are headed in this direction.

8   JasonM   2016 Feb 15, 10:21am  

Earl - Hey Adam, did you know that there is a guy in front of your building with a big sign saying he thinks your products are worthless shit. Is he a disgruntled employee or something?
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Adam - No, he is our janitor. He does a good job of timely cleaning our toilets so I cant fire him for doing that during his breaks.
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Earl - Christ Adam, that guy works for you? You pay him? He is really putting your company and your employees jobs at risk.
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Adam - I know. I talked to our lawyer, but ever since the patnet constitutional enforcement of free speech at the workplace bill was passed, I cant do anything about him. Its not libel since he is merely expressing his opinion. As long as he does a good job cleaning up, he can say whatever he wants. Our hands our tied.

9   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 Feb 15, 10:24am  

You know, it's funny. The same people who don't want employees to have free speech are the same ones who get bent out of shape when the public criticizes what owners and managers say about "I raised my Corporation Christian".

An Employee is only trading labor for money. Their whole existence is not being leased out to an employer, only the labor.

Obviously, making direct statements against the company's interests is incompatible with employment. However, calling the diversity policy bullshit, or telling your manager that his anti-gay marriage ideas are retarded when he whinges about Adam and Steve tying the knot - something that has nothing directly to do with work and production - should be Protected Free Speech in our Great Nation.

10   Ceffer   2016 Feb 15, 10:27am  

Free Speech is alien to the Great Socialist Paradise. If somebody says it's a steaming crock, then the Great Socialist Paradise must take the appropriate measures for re-education.

11   JasonM   2016 Feb 15, 11:16am  

Earl - Hey Adam, did you know that there is a guy in front of your building with a big sign saying Hitler is the best leader ever, and has pictures of aborted fetuses, and 9/11 and Sandy Hook. Is he a disgruntled employee or something?
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Adam - No, he is our janitor. He does a good job of timely cleaning our toilets so I cant fire him for doing that during his breaks.
-
Earl - Christ Adam, that guy works for you? You pay him? He is really putting your company and your employees jobs at risk.
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Adam - I know. I talked to our lawyer, but ever since the patnet constitutional enforcement of free speech at the workplace bill was passed, I cant do anything about him.

Earl - You do realize that customers are talking about this. His being there alienates many potential customers who wonder if his views are the companies, but who really just want to buy your shit and go about their day.

Adam - I know. I asked him, "look I dont give a shit about Hitler or abortion, or conspiracies, I truly dont, but cant you do that on your own time? You know this company doesnt stand for or against any of that shit - we are all about just doing our work and going home - so cant you just do all that shit somewhere else?" He said no, he cannot shut up, and since he does a good job cleaning up, and does not directly disparage the company's interests, he can say whatever he wants. Our hands our tied.

12   JasonM   2016 Feb 15, 11:33am  

Latrell. Persecuted, or just an asshole?

www.youtube.com/embed/e3h6es6zh1c

13   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 Feb 15, 11:36am  

So, Employers can ban crucifixes? If you can't have political opinions at work, you certainly can't express religious views like putting ashes on your forehead. How about employees parking cars on the employer's lot with political bumper stickers?

Who cares? If it becomes as prevalent as your extreme example, people will quickly learn that no employee speaks for the company.

Again, employers are only leasing labor for money. They should have no power over the employees' liberties at work.

14   lostand confused   2016 Feb 15, 11:41am  

I think it depends. For example if you are a a business that caters to the Mormon community and your employee insists on his free speech rights and goes to all your customers and tries to convince them that Mormonism is a cult-would you fire him or is the employee protected under the free speech rights.

While I hate PC, businesses exist to make money and if an employee's free speech impacts your bottom line -then shouldn't the business be able to terminate?

While I think it should be protected, we also have to see of the impact on the business.

15   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 Feb 15, 11:44am  

lostand confused says

I think it depends. For example if you are a a business that caters to the Mormon community and your employee insists on his free speech rights and goes to all your customers and tries to convince them that Mormonism is a cult-would you fire him or is the employee protected under the free speech rights.

Depends. Only if it directly interferes with the job. Telling every customer at the checkout at a Mormon Survival Store that Mormonism is a cult might qualify. But expressing the idea that Mormonism is a cult in the break room would be protected speech.

16   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 Feb 15, 11:44am  

lostand confused says

While I hate PC, businesses exist to make money and if an employee's free speech impacts your bottom line -then shouldn't the business be able to terminate?

Does the right to make money always trump free speech?

17   lostand confused   2016 Feb 15, 11:49am  

thunderlips11 says

Does the right to make money always trump free speech?

Depends again. For example if I run a business that caters to far lefties/commies/socialists. I will probably have to keep my libertarian views to myself and also be careful on how me/the company/employees project ourselves on social media. Else we lose our business and have to find a new line of work.

It is difficult, because I hate PC, but also am looking at it from the practical side of how business works in the private realm.

Gubmnt should absolutely not hinge on the 1st amendment-private am not sure what the solution is. There should be a balance between the individual vs the business as a whole. For example if the profession demands someone come in a suit, dressing like a beach bum might be you expressing yourself, but bad for business.

18   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 Feb 15, 11:53am  

Right. This is a reasonable objection. Certainly you can't jump around in every customer's face at a retail store and talk about the Zionazis running America.

At the same time, you should be free to object and reject Diversity remarks like this:

This is social engineering, not Business.

What's most interesting about SJWs is their attempts to avoid Class issues, esp. if it involves poor Whites.

19   mell   2016 Feb 15, 11:59am  

JasonM says

Sounds great til you try to get rid of the au pair who you find out has been indoctrinating your kids with Feminazi poison.

Me - Sorry Gina we are gonna have to let you go.

Gina - HUH, just last Xmas you guys gave me that bonus, gushing about how I was the best Au Pair ever. Nothing has changed other than the fact that you found out what I was saying and didnt like it. You cant fire me asshole - free speech! Now sit there silently, pay me, and watch me turn your kids into IHLs!

This example is not suitable. In that case the job of the au-pair or educator is to bring up the kid according to the parents liking, if she doesn't do that she's not doing her job. You will unfortunately always need lawyers and judges for edge cases at bigger companies. But what you do at home or your personal beliefs have nothing to do with your conduct at the workplace. The problem arises when others dig into your personal life and then bring it to the attention of the employer and then start a campaign that would "reflect badly" on the employer. But you brought up an interesting conundrum. So, to play along, what if an employer only caters to Christian or Muslim or White or Black or LGBT people and deems it good to their bottom line, should they then not be free to fire employees who call them out on the obvious discrimination, even if those employees are just exercising their free speech? One can't have it both ways.

20   JasonM   2016 Feb 15, 12:00pm  

lostand confused says

It is difficult, because I hate PC, but also am looking at it from the practical side of how business works in the private realm.

Exactly. The way it works right now, whether its crucifixes, or hitler, if you are a good employee you can express yourself within reason. But remember what started this:

resistance says

I propose that the constitution should actually be enforced as the law of the land, even in the workplace. No one should be fired or censured in the workplace for any speech that would be legally allowed in public.

No one?

Any?

Sorry, but no thank you, because as lostand confused said, it depends. If Latrell is a kickass employee pulling in 10X the revenue of anyone else, I dont give a shit about his penis whistles driving other good workers away. However, if Latrell is just average and acts like that disrupting the workplace - he should be fired.

21   MisdemeanorRebel   2016 Feb 15, 12:21pm  

mell says

The problem arises when others dig into your personal life and then bring it to the attention of the employer and then start a campaign that would "reflect badly" on the employer. But you brought up an interesting conundrum. So, to play along, what if an employer only caters to Christian or Muslim or White or Black or LGBT people and deems it good to their bottom line, should they then not be free to fire employees who call them out on the obvious discrimination, even if those employees are just exercising their free speech? One can't have it both ways.

This has happened to many people, particular women in science who were targetted by SJWs for not towing the Patriarchy/Rape Culture line and spoke out at Science and Skepticism Conferences. 1000s of asshole social justice warriors bombarded their employers. Also Thunderf00t, famously. Though his Czech Employer didn't give a flying F.

22   zzyzzx   2016 Feb 15, 1:21pm  

When i was working at Wells Fargo, I got the impression that the only thing that was acceptable as per company policy to post in my cube were cat pictures.

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