patrick.net

Fails miserably by

All that may be, but the point is where is the general public outrage, the threatening to burn down their bakery compared to that provoked by the Christians? I'll bet they didn't get thousands of angry tweets.

4

Dan8267 2015 Apr 3, 2:52pm

HIDDEN CAMERA: Gay Wedding Cake At Muslim Bakeries

New Fox comedy series?

5

curious2 2015 Apr 3, 2:57pm

where is the general public outrage

He's right that pseudo-liberals seem to ignore that Islam and Muslim countries are worse, but there are at least three reasons why people in America react more to purportedly "Christian" bigotry.
1) Most Americans grew up attending Christian churches, so they react more strongly to seeing their own religion twisted into hate by bigots.
2) Republicans are in thrall to Pat Robertson's "Christian" coalition, which has had at least three consequences:
a) when Pat and others could fool a majority into believing their nonsense, Republicans used those issues to bash Democrats;
b) now that most Americans can see through Pat's lies, Democrats use the same issues to bash Republicans;
c) now that many of Pat's lies have been obviously disproved, his allied fund-raisers need to make up new issues to stay in business.
3) Christians are a large enough voting bloc to change the outcome of elections, including especially primaries; Muslims aren't.

Also, regarding the video, the guy was obviously setting up something, and the store owners were probably sensing a trap and trying not to get dragged into his crusade. If the same request were presented sincerely by an actual customer, it might get a different result. Even with all his attempts, he could never get any of the Muslim bakeries to say that they would never do a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, or that they had any objection to that. Small business owners get a sense of when someone is trying to trick them. A guy who ran a small restaurant told me his peeve was people who would come in and order something just so they could use the toilet and then leave without paying; he said if all they wanted to do was use the toilet, they could do that, then at least then he wouldn't have to prepare a whole lunch that nobody wanted. The guy in the video said he was going out of his way to appear "extra" gay or whatever, and the people in the stores may have sensed that he was not being honest with them and that doing business with him could only ensnare them further.

6 AussieGothamite 2015 Apr 3, 2:57pm

Probably because they're not directly comparable. Nobody was asking the pizza place to write or draw anything on top of the pizza. Keep swinging, though. You'll connect sooner or later.

Still, if you're you decide to be in business, be in business. Jesus told his crew to stop being fishermen to go work in the God-bothering field. So far as I know they weren't running back to do part-time work selling haddock. Maybe that's a message they need to look into.

7

HydroCabron 2015 Apr 3, 3:01pm

All that may be, but the point is where is the general public outrage, the threatening to burn down their bakery compared to that provoked by the Christians? I'll bet they didn't get thousands of angry tweets.

The Muslims weren't seeking legislative protection, as they do not own the state legislatures in most U.S. states.

Why not look into countries where Christians do not own the government? There is serious persecution going on in Iraq and Syria these days.

8 AussieGothamite 2015 Apr 3, 3:08pm

Let's be clear, though. If you're threatening to burn down a business, you're a criminal. Even if that business is run by a douche.

9

NDrLoR 2015 Apr 3, 3:18pm

3) Christians are a large enough voting bloc to change the outcome of elections, including especially primaries;

Didn't seem to work in the last two...

10

Dan8267 2015 Apr 3, 3:24pm

Also, regarding the video, the guy was obviously setting up something, and the store owners were probably sensing a trap and trying not to get dragged into his crusade. If the same request were presented sincerely by an actual customer, it might get a different result.

I thought that as well.

He's right that pseudo-liberals seem to ignore that Islam and Muslim countries are worse

True, but the people in those Muslim countries aren't threatening my civil rights. Christians in America are. I'm always going to pay more attention to the dangers around me than those that don't affect me. That's just common sense.

11

curious2 2015 Apr 3, 4:11pm

Dan8267 says

3) Christians are a large enough voting bloc to change the outcome of elections, including especially primaries;

Didn't seem to work in the last two...

I'm flattered that you misattributed my comment to Dan, but your comment puzzles me, as your comments tend to do.

One thing I've noticed about people who claim to be very religious, many of them don't seem to believe in anything other than their own counterfactual opinions and sectarian allegiances. For example, I never see them acknowledge that if all things are the will of an omnipotent deity, then that deity must really like President Obama (first to win a majority twice since Eisenhower) and same-sex marriage. In 2012, the Democratic convention coincided with a rare double rainbow over San Francisco, and the Republican convention was disrupted by a hurricane, but the signs and wonders crowd averted their eyes and covered their ears and mouths. Muslim fundamentalists in their home countries struggle with an even bigger problem, as their populations are doing worse than Christian countries and in fact even worse than people in the same places prior to the arrival of Islam; that's why ISIL and the Taliban destroy evidence of prior civilizations, in order to establish "terra nova" with no history. This is a basic issue with religion, i.e. continuing to believe in spite of clear disproof. If people really believed they had an omnipotent deity on their side, they wouldn't be so frightened all the time, but instead it's the opposite: they start out frightened, and adopt an imaginary friend to protect them from their fears, and then they become even more frightened by anything that might dispel their own belief in their imaginary friend. If somebody sold you an "omnipotent" deity that lost two elections in a row, maybe you should demand a refund on your tithes, or stop tithing, or change to a more successful religion, or at least a more successful denomination.

If somebody sold you a supposedly powerful truck that they said could haul a boat out of the water on a trailer, and you bought it and found it couldn't do what they said, you'd complain. You'd want to return it and get a different truck. Well, surely an "omnipotent" deity must be more powerful than a truck, so why the low standard? Why the fear? Go demand a refund, and next time demand proof before paying for something supposedly omnipotent.

12

indigenous 2015 Apr 3, 5:33pm

I think this discrimination talk is horseshit, as who in business wants to turn away customers?

13

NDrLoR 2015 Apr 3, 7:17pm

Republicans are in thrall to Pat Robertson's "Christian" coalition,

I think Pat Robertson has less influence today in anything than even Sarah Palin, and that's probably a good thing.

regarding the video, the guy was obviously setting up something,

And do you think the one in Indiana wasn't a setup? Do you really believe that some poor soul had no food at her wedding because the pizzaria declined her business?

surely an "omnipotent" deity must be more powerful than a truck

You want to talk about power? How about being present at the creation? How about being King of kings and Lord of lords? How about executing final judgment? How about having defeated death itself? These are what I reference as Power and what Christians can access.

I believe Dan8267's recent thread Why religion (particularly Christianity) is vile, evil, narcissistic & dangerous is a microcosm of how a huge and growing part of the population (and most on this site) feel about religion, and as he specified, particularly Christianity. These things like making a cake for a gay couple are skirmishes. The ultimate decision is whether or not you are going to worship man or God, the theme of Whittaker Chambers' magnificant book Witness.

On a practical basis, I believe Christianity has some elements that are completely incompatible with public sentiment today:

1. God exists - that statement in itself causes apoplexly in today's world, and

2. Jesus is the only way to know Him. All other religions, beliefs, including the flying spaghettic monster, are figments of the mortal mind and are of no value in this world or the next. This is probably more objectionable in a world where diversity is the do-all and be-all than even the statement that God exists.

3. Christianity is judgmental - again, completely forbidden to call things right and wrong.

4. Sin exists - 'nuf sed.

5. People are bad, not good

And yes, I'll be in my pew on Sunday singing Christ the Lord is Risen Today because we're people of the Resurrection.

14

Strategist 2015 Apr 3, 8:31pm

curious2 says

He's right that pseudo-liberals seem to ignore that Islam and Muslim countries are worse

True, but the people in those Muslim countries aren't threatening my civil rights. Christians in America are. I'm always going to pay more attention to the dangers around me than those that don't affect me. That's just common sense.

You are very disappointing, Dan. :( Your attitude is very selfish. People in Muslim countries are humans too. African Americans and gays being discriminated does not pose a danger to me because I am neither Black or Gay, so it's OK for me to look the other way when they get discriminated? We live in the same planet. You have heard the phrase "what goes around comes around"
Watching people get slaughtered, raped and enslaved anywhere is not acceptable.

15

Strategist 2015 Apr 3, 8:43pm

1. God exists - that statement in itself causes apoplexly in today's world, and

No evidence. Just a belief.

2. Jesus is the only way to know Him. All other religions, beliefs, including the flying spaghettic monster, are figments of the mortal mind and are of no value in this world or the next. This is probably more objectionable in a world where diversity is the do-all and be-all than even the statement that God exists.

That's the logic all religions use. Silly.

3. Christianity is judgmental - again, completely forbidden to call things right and wrong.

Duh!

4. Sin exists - 'nuf sed.

Belief in God is the root of all sin.

5. People are bad, not good

"Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. It takes religion to make a good person do bad things"

And yes, I'll be in my pew on Sunday singing Christ the Lord is Risen Today because we're people of the Resurrection.

I'll be catching up on some well deserved sleep. Please don't sing too loud.

16

NDrLoR 2015 Apr 3, 9:00pm

Strategist says

Just a belief

That's my point, they are objectionable, but the responses are all like the first, stock-in-trade, right out of central casting.

Strategist says

well deserved sleep

That's questionable.

17

curious2 2015 Apr 3, 9:12pm

People are bad, not good

Speaking for yourself, of course.

These are what I reference as Power and what Christians can access.

Interesting use of the word "access," where others might have said "claim" or even "usurp." Do you pay money to sit in your pew and sing? If a deity is already omnipotent, why would He/She/It need money from you? Have you considered the possibility that you've been tricked into paying money to charlatans, just like the believers in all the other religions that you reject?

18

Strategist 2015 Apr 3, 9:15pm

Strategist says

Just a belief

That's my point, they are objectionable, but the responses are all like the first, stock-in-trade, right out of central casting.

Strategist says

well deserved sleep

That's questionable.

We live in a free country. Everyone has the right to believe in anything they want as long as they don't hurt anyone. Religions are discriminatory and divisiveness, and sickening when it comes to some beliefs like Islam. We need secular laws to take precedence over religious laws so everyone can be protected and treated equally.

19

Y 2015 Apr 4, 6:12am

Sensing this, the store owner should have just told him to write down exactly what he wanted and leave it on the counter, then went about his business.
would have disarmed the trap in one fell swoop and gave the whiner nothing to whine about...

Also, regarding the video, the guy was obviously setting up something, and the store owners were probably sensing a trap and trying not to get dragged into his crusade.

20

Y 2015 Apr 4, 6:14am

same ole same ole Headline News at MSNBC....