« prev   random   next »

20
8

Freedom to Offend

By Patrick following x   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 402,470 views   539 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


Patrick.net is a mostly-unmoderated anonymous forum where the fundamental human right to offend is protected. Freedom of speech is nothing but the freedom to offend. Speech which offends no one needs no protection because it will not be censored. Controversial ideas are inevitably offensive to someone and therefore need protection from censorship.

As MisterLearnToCode says:
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.

I especially want to people to have a place to say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, your comments and posts are very welcome here. If your point of view is "offensive" to others, that is excellent! Enjoy your freedom here. Please try to keep it about ideas and not about people.

Do not attack other users or the site itself. Personal attacks solve nothing. The merit of a person is not important, only the merit of ideas.

If you don't like the site, go somewhere else. This site cost you nothing, was a lot of work for me, and doesn't even have advertising.

I often get requests to block "bad" people from the site, but don't believe that anyone is entirely bad or entirely good, only that the amount of each fluctuates over time.

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

Flag personal attacks with the "flag" link by each comment so that they will go into moderation where they will be reviewed by a moderator. Please do not flag comments just because you don't like them.

If you're not registered or don't have the "flag" link, please report personal comments to p@patrick.net by email.


Here are the original articles that made this site famous:

https://patrick.net/post/1282720/2015-07-11-ten-reasons-it-s-a-terrible-time-to-buy-an-expensive-house
https://patrick.net/post/1282721/2015-07-11-eight-groups-who-lie-about-the-housing-market
https://patrick.net/post/1282722/2015-07-11-37-bogus-arguments-about-housing

There is an 8,000 character limit for both posts and comments.

If you ignore another user, you will not see his posts or comments. The ignore link is on their user page. Just click their name or icon to get to their user page.

To get another user's attention, mention him in a comment with an @ character prepended to his username ( for example @Patrick ) and then he will get an email of that comment.

If you include an image URL ending in .jpg, .png, or .gif it will be converted into the visible image in a post or comment.

If you include a youTube or Vimeo URL, the post or comment will display the video.

These basic html tags work: a b blockquote br code del font hr i iframe img li ol ol p strike sub sup u ul video vsmall

Surround a word or phrase with the * character to make it bold or the _ character to make it italic.

you can edit any post or comment you entered within a week of creating it. After a week, content is permanent and will not be deleted.

Please write p@patrick.net with questions or suggestions.

patrick.net has never received a national security letter.

« First    « Previous    Comments 447 - 486 of 539    Next »    Last »

447   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Nov 1, 8:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Now that I see Mr. Magic's post was made her where it belongs, I think it should be approved, actually.


I'd like to know why it wasn't approved too, it was posted under "Discuss Anything" since...

Patrick says
Patrick.net is an uncensored anonymous forum.


I posted a 100% true comment, if they aren't allowed to stay, what's left to discuss?
449   www365   ignore (0)   2018 Nov 26, 2:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

is a housing crash coming?
don't understand why people still buy houses at such insane price.
450   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 26, 6:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@www365 My own opinion is that Bay Area prices will decline for the next few years at least, but slowly.

One factor is that the new tax law limits the deductibility of interest for the rich. Also, I expect interest rates to rise.
451   jazz_music   ignore (7)   2018 Nov 28, 6:34pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The honey badger
452   HEYYOU   ignore (26)   2019 Jan 22, 1:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"Patrick.net is an uncensored anonymous forum."
No more moderators or ignorers?
453   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2019 Jan 27, 1:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Well it appears we can not discuss everything.
454   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 12:54pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

There are still moderators, and you can still ignore anyone you want, even me.

You can actually discuss everything. You just can't shit on other users or the site itself.

I changed the site tagline and the title of this post to "Freedom to Offend".
455   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 3, 3:09pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
I'm genuinely curious. I used to read this site back then and it would be interesting to hear how it morphed from housing and economics into encouraging offensive language.



Trump got elected, against the absolute assurance of several popular prog/lib posters, and most of them got super beyond Butthurt to the max and couldn't make a post without personal insults.

Then they thought their freedom was taken away and flounced after Patrick tried to control insults after months of nasty behavior.

My favorite was a certain poster who agreed Trump-Russia was BS right up until the election results. Then not a week later was Mr. Trump-Russia-Collusion
456   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 3, 3:14pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I'm all for the melting pot.

I don't like the salad bowl because there's no way to get rid of the Islamist Croutons.
457   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 3, 3:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
None of that makes any much sense, but it sounds like you had an argument with someone once here. That's personal to YOU, but my question was really about why this site was refocused to protecting the "freedom to offend" over so many other potential choices. I'm genuinely curious.



I was probably one of the least involved in the Great Prog Butthurt.

Ironically, the same people who wanted to ban Capt Shuddup for years based on his behavior, were the ones demanding that banning personal insults was "Anti Free Speech".
458   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 5:50pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
I'm not clear what this content on housing has to do with the freedom to be offensive? If the economics of housing is what put the site on the map, how did it evolve to a site focused on the freedom to be offensive?


I honestly believe that the rapidly growing suppression of free speech is a far greater problem than the cost of housing. The housing problem will solve itself eventually. The lack of free speech can lock us all into tyranny forever.
459   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 6:02pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
Islamist Croutons


Lol, exactly. Everything else is pretty easy to eat, but those croutons really don't belong in the salad at all. Kinda like putting bits of wood or rocks in your salad.
460   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 7:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

but those croutons really don't belong in the salad at all. Kinda like putting bits of wood or rocks in your salad.

Yep, and those who do eat the croutons annoy every one else when their loud chewing sounds like a rock crusher.
461   d6rB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 7:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
loud chewing sounds like a rock crusher.

one could even say that their teeth explode
462   ForcedTQ   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 3, 9:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
Patrick says
the rapidly growing suppression of free speech


I couldn't disagree more strongly. Free speech is more proliferate at this moment than ever before in the history of mankind.

I think perhaps you are confusing free speech with lack of consequences. People can, and should be, held accountable for the consequences of their words.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that free speech without consequence is tyranny.


So you would believe that someone should be able to say something, and if someone else doesn't like it/agree with it/know it to be fact/etc. there should be consequences for the person that said it? Is not that Tyranny?
463   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 9:16pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
I couldn't disagree more strongly. Free speech is more proliferate at this moment than ever before in the history of mankind.

I think perhaps you are confusing free speech with lack of consequences. People can, and should be, held accountable for the consequences of their words.


I'm talking about cases like James Damore at Google, who got fired for perfectly reasonable comments about why there are more male than female engineers.

Hint: it's not sexism.

Or how Larry Summers got fired from Harvard.
464   d6rB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 4, 5:18am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

https://spectator.us/free-speech-threat/

Calm down! Your freedom of speech is not under threat
Anyone who has almost every aspect of their online life taken away from them is not ‘silenced’
Godfrey Elfwick

As usual, the tinfoil hat-wearing alt-right Nazis are crying out that free speech is under threat. This ridiculous overreaction always makes me laugh. These people have no idea what free speech is. They assume that freedom of speech means you are free to say whatever you want without severe consequences! Imagine that?! What kind of fascistic society would allow unfettered, non-regulated speech?

The companies listed above are all private companies. They are entitled to ban whomever they wish if they feel that their views or behavior are unpleasant. In fact, I would like to see this approach taken a step further. I cannot wait for the day utility companies start banning people from having access to vital services such as electricity, gas and running water. Nextra, Enel and Duke Energy are all perfectly within their rights to deny power to the homes of people whose views they deem problematic.

When it comes to the latest social media bans, I’ve seen cries of ‘Urr, they are trying to silence us!’ What utter rot! Anyone who has almost every aspect of their online life taken away from them is not ‘silenced’. They are still perfectly free to send letters and postcards to people (for now). There is absolutely nothing stopping them from using CB radio, or sending a telegraph. Nothing prevents them from tapping out messages in Morse code to their followers on an intricate system of underground pipes they could easily have built if they obtain the appropriate planning permission. With a little creativity, Alex Jones could communicate his vile thoughts via the medium of interpretive dance on any street corner he chooses. Tommy Robinson could scribble his racist views on scraps of paper, fold them up, insert them into bottles (not plastic) and hurl them into the sea for his fellow Islamophobes to discover while walking their pitbull terriers on the beach.
465   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 4, 6:53am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Then go there and do left wing activist there. You’ll get banned in 5 seconds...

You don’t appreciate the fact that you are still posting here. Ungreatful and so entitled.

Tarantula says
In fact, there seems to be no shortage of websites that proffer the most unpalatable "politically incorrect" content imaginable:

White aryan resistance: https://www.resist.com/
Jew Watch: http://www.jewwatch.com/
Holocaust Deniers: https://codoh.com/

There is an infinitude of "offensive" material on the Internet, without even considering all the wierd porn. I don't really see how it needs protecting
466   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 4, 6:57am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

In CA most things said on this forum will get you fired for life. CA doesn’t support freedom of speech. But it supports freedom of speech that left wants... such as gender selection, having gays refer to you as cis gendered, etc...

CA liberals live on one way street pushing society into tyranny.
467   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 13, 10:46am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

We gotta lot of old sockpuppet accounts resurfacing today.
468   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 13, 10:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anti_forum
469   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 13, 10:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
We gotta lot of old sockpuppet accounts resurfacing today.


Why not take down gorans off topic post? Total bullshit
470   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 13, 10:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

personal
471   Quigley   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 13, 10:52am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
There is an infinitude of "offensive" material on the Internet, without even considering all the wierd porn. I don't really see how it needs protecting


Let’s start by banning anyone who talks like a Leftist. See how it works? Thought not. For a dude who is supposed to be educated, you aren’t displaying any wisdom.
472   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 13, 11:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Elgatouno says
police your own this is why a one sided moderation policy is fucking stupid


Point me to another current user bringing up a sockpuppet in the recent past that you're complaining about, thanks.
475   MAGA_BOMBER   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 15, 11:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

FortWayneIndiana says
pushing society into tyranny.

offending is no great accomplishment, Offensive speech isolates people and undermines relationships permanently because all relationships are based on respect.

Ask a pre-teenager and he will explain this tyranny to even a cult moron.
476   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 15, 11:25pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGA_BOMBER says
offending is no great accomplishment, Offensive speech isolates people and undermines relationships permanently because all relationships are based on respect.


Respect is to be earned, not given away.

We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.

Some people are triggered by somebody saying "The Earth is a fucking oblate spheroid, not fucking flat."
477   MAGA_BOMBER   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 15, 11:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
Some people are triggered by somebody saying "The Earth is a fucking oblate spheroid, not fucking flat."

Try talking that way to someone related to your employment.

BOOM

You have no worry about that particular problem?

BOOM
478   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 15, 11:35pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGA_BOMBER says
Try talking that way to someone related to your employment.

BOOM

You have no worry about that particular problem?

BOOM



So what are you saying, in a democracy everybody should only talk like their boss is around?

Is that the ACLU's new stance on Free Speech: you can only talk as if you're at work on the boss' time and dime?

Sounds scary.
479   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 15, 11:50pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.


Yes, exactly!
480   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 16, 7:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anti_forum
481   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 16, 8:20am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGA_BOMBER says
offending is no great accomplishment, Offensive speech isolates people and undermines relationships permanently because all relationships are based on respect.


No one expects everything we say to be an accomplishment. Anything and everything is offensive, restricting speech based on how it offends someone is tyranny.
482   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2019 Mar 16, 11:03am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Right, so if you say "Men and Women are fundamentally different." or "Humans have only has two sexes", there are a substantial number of people who claim that is Hate Speech.

This is why studies that showed that there were differences between boys and girls during gestation in the womb when culture cannot be a factor, they had to put in all kinds of soothing words and caveats and "please don't hit me" type language when they released it.
483   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 16, 11:08am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yes, and even worse than that, actual scientific research has been excised from journals because some found objective facts to be offensive.

For example, the research paper showing greater male variability across most species.

https://quillette.com/2018/09/07/academic-activists-send-a-published-paper-down-the-memory-hole/

First, the National Science Foundation wrote to Sergei requesting that acknowledgment of NSF funding be removed from our paper with immediate effect. I was astonished. I had never before heard of the NSF requesting removal of acknowledgement of funding for any reason. On the contrary, they are usually delighted to have public recognition of their support for science. ...

ut, that same day, the Mathematical Intelligencer’s editor-in-chief Marjorie Senechal notified us that, with “deep regret,” she was rescinding her previous acceptance of our paper. “Several colleagues,” she wrote, had warned her that publication would provoke “extremely strong reactions” and there existed a “very real possibility that the right-wing media may pick this up and hype it internationally.” For the second time in a single day I was left flabbergasted. Working mathematicians are usually thrilled if even five people in the world read our latest article. Now some progressive faction was worried that a fairly straightforward logical argument about male variability might encourage the conservative press to actually read and cite a science paper?
484   AD   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 16, 11:24am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
This is why studies that showed that there were differences between boys and girls during gestation in the womb when culture cannot be a factor, they had to put in all kinds of soothing words and caveats and "please don't hit me" type language when they released it.


485   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 17, 6:53am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anti_forum
486   rocketjoe79   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 19, 11:01pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It's the same regarding IQ testing. I keep reminding people that 49% are below average, but no one believes me....

« First    « Previous    Comments 447 - 486 of 539    Next »    Last »


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions