patrick.net

Do you ever sober up these days? Decisions about flu vaccinations are done in February to allow time to prepare vaccines for the next season. Sometimes the virus mutates. Shit happens. Having a 50% effective vaccine is better than nothing.

I know this is hard for you to grasp, try to focus. February was long before the ebola crises.

You certainly provide a concrete example why people shouldn't be drinking and posting. I'm seriously thinking of using your posts to teach my children about the dangers of alchohol abuse, except your language is x rated. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Can you do some of your befuddled posts without bad language?

Damn what what...a flu virus mutated? No way...evolution. fucking science.

'Who are scientists to think they understand climate change?'

'Fucking scientists can't control flu those fascist assholes if it wasn't for welfare queens nobody would buy their shots.'

Well you guys are just making the yesteryear's argument from the opposition as NOT to take the flu shots, that you asshills like to shame everyone into running out and get.

Asshills? We got Asshills??

CaptainShuddup says

that you asshills like to shame everyone into running out and get.

I'm trying to clean up my act, assholes is too offensive.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/12/05/cdc-says-it-is-too-late-to-make-new-flu-vaccine-for-this-season/?intcmp=latestnews

Perhaps they could sell the ineffective one at a reduced rate.

I actually heard a reporter say yesterday that a CDC spokes person said, still you should get the Vaccine as it offers some protection, and any protection is "better than nothing!".
Yeah except this isn't freeze dried butter beans, it's goddamn pathogen that you introduce into your body with known risks that you take because those risks outweigh catching the flu from the wild. SO if that strain does not exist in the wild and you take this flu shot, you're pretty much trying to get sick by a flu that does not exist otherwise.

Liberal's are going to Die saying "It's better than nothing..."

CaptainShuddup says

it's goddamn pathogen that you introduce into your body

It's inactive man. Damn science.

CaptainShuddup says

as it offers some protection

50% right? That's good. Odds of getting flu: 5-20% each year. With this lame vaccine, it's 2.5 - 10% each year. I'll take it. Fever is fucking miserable. Damn math.

CaptainShuddup says

Perhaps they could sell the ineffective one at a reduced rate.

Agreed! 50% effective should = 50% the cost!!

CaptainShuddup says

it's goddamn pathogen that you introduce into your body with known risks that you take because those risks outweigh catching the flu from the wild

Given your deep understanding of risk weighting as a guiding genius of the insurance industry, we eagerly await a deeper analysis here.

JH says

I'll take it. Fever is fucking miserable.

I went my whole life without ever having the flu. Needless to say, I never thought much about getting flu shots. Then, one year while I was at the SpongeBob hotel in Orlando, the entire family got the flu. I was never more miserable in my life. I never appreciated my excellent health until I got the flu. High fever, coughing that lasted for the adults -- six weeks! Fatigue in my bones!

My son was coughing so hard that he revealed that he had a inguinal hernia! He actually coughed his intestines into his right you-know-what!!!

That wasn't one of our better vacations.

turtledove says

I went my whole life without ever having the flu.

That was the problem, I want the flu about once every three years.

CaptainShuddup says

Liberal's are going to

Oh my god, here comes an 's'!

I think you're off base...completely so on this one Capt.

I'm not sure what proof there is that the flu shot has significant negative side effects.

The side effect is you're out of cash but you still get the flu anyway.
The Flushot is not 100% it only offers about 50% to 75% protection.

People take it and they don't get sick, people don't take it and they don't get sick.

CaptainShuddup says

The side effect is you're out of cash but you still get the flu anyway.

The Flushot is not 100% it only offers about 50% to 75% protection.

People take it and they don't get sick, people don't take it and they don't get sick.

What you wrote doesn't make sense in that by taking the flu shot you are strongly increasing the chance that you won't get the flu.

As far as cost, many(most) actively encourage their members to get the flu shot with no out of pocket.

dodgerfanjohn says

by taking the flu shot you are strongly increasing the chance that you won't get the flu.

But there's already a strong chance that during any given flu season that you wont get the flu anyway.

There's a chance that you may get to close to someone in an elevator that has a strain of flu that the current flu shot wont protect you from. You chances at that point is no greater or less greater than mine. It's really who catches the air borne flu virus or the person who pushes the door close button after the person with the flu steps off of the elevator. After she was the one that sneezed into her hand, then pressed her floor and then the door close button on the first floor as you both entered the elevator.

And you don't even want to know about Ebola tainted vomit her dog was eating while she was out walking it.

turtledove says

My son was coughing so hard that he revealed that he had a inguinal hernia! He actually coughed his intestines into his right you-know-what!!!

Wow. That actually sounds like whooping cough. Did they actually do labs to find out it was the flu? I got keuchhusten (Pertussis) in Germany after the baby I was caring for got it (Docs gave her homeopathic remedies). We each had it over a month--worst coughing EVER!

turtledove says

That wasn't one of our better vacations.

Omg that sounds absolutely miserable. I've only had flu once as an adult and it sucked. Ironically enough I got my damn flu shot that year haha. Capn shutup.

dodgerfanjohn says

I'm not sure what proof there is that the flu shot has significant negative side effects.

Don't talk to michelle bachman much huh? Haha

LOL

rufita11 says

turtledove says

My son was coughing so hard that he revealed that he had a inguinal hernia! He actually coughed his intestines into his right you-know-what!!!

Wow. That actually sounds like whooping cough. Did they actually do labs to find out it was the flu? I got keuchhusten (Pertussis) in Germany after the baby I was caring for got it (Docs gave her homeopathic remedies). We each had it over a month--worst coughing EVER!

Inguinal hernias are pretty common amongst kids and can develop over time, cough can trigger them but is not usually the root cause, it's just weakened abdominal walls.

dodgerfanjohn says

I'm not sure what proof there is that the flu shot has significant negative side effects.

There is some proof, it just is deemed that the benefits outweigh the risks for the individual and the common, but that is debatable at least for the flu shot. People develop guillain barre syndrome, some even die. Some face chronic issues following vaccination that are hard to quantify/qualify. Besides preservatives (of which some have been removed) the adjuvants trigger heightened (abnormal) immune responses which is desired at time of vaccination, but can have lasting undesirable effects, esp. if you have many other vaccinations. The new nasal spray sheds the live-attenuated virus for up to 3 weeks which is also a concern for those with weak immune systems.

JH says

dodgerfanjohn says

I'm not sure what proof there is that the flu shot has significant negative side effects.

Don't talk to michelle bachman much huh? Haha

Actually studies have not been decisive on this subject either, the amount of people infected with the flu does not seem to vary much even if the percentage of vaccinated people varies significantly. However a point can be made that the average case is weaker for an immunized person. This is not an easy or clear cut issue as it is with beyond-doubt proven useful vaccinations such as tetanus or polio.

mell says

However a point can be made that the average case is weaker for an immunized person.

That (hope) is exactly why I get it every fall even though it isn't even close to 100% effective. I figure 1 flu, 15 years of flu shots, and no side effects yet (that I know of)...then I'll just keep doing it.

Call it Crazy says

How do you know you wouldn't have caught the flu those other 14 years and didn't need the vaccine?

I don't. But I think I'm ok with not knowing that one!

Call it Crazy says

I don't know about that, it looks like your skin is peeling off in your avatar! That could be a side effect...

hah!

I entertained using this avatar back when I switched but I thought better of it:

mell says

Actually studies have not been decisive on this subject either, the amount of people infected with the flu does not seem to vary much even if the percentage of vaccinated people varies significantly.

Could you post some? Real studies, not anti vaccine hack jobs.

CaptainShuddup says

We're all just supposed to accept every thing you guys say, and when you get it wrong which really is a fucking LOT...

CaptainShuddup says

Liberal's are going to Die saying "It's better than nothing..."

We can think for ourselves. Whether you accept whatever is said or have the ability to think for yourself is your problem.

Captain. Are you elderly, pregnant, a child (chronological age not your emotional or intellectual age), a nurse, or chronically ill (physically not mentaly). If not then WTF are you worried about? Those are the groups recommended for a flu shot. Even if you are, just say no. Everyone else can choose for themselves thank you. For a conservative you sure are interested in being everyone's nanny.

bob2356 says

mell says

Actually studies have not been decisive on this subject either, the amount of people infected with the flu does not seem to vary much even if the percentage of vaccinated people varies significantly.

Could you post some? Real studies, not anti vaccine hack jobs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374803/

"The overall decline in influenza-attributed mortality over the 20th century cannot be the result of influenza vaccination, because vaccination did not become available until the 1940s and was not widely used until the late 1980s.19 This rapid decline, which commenced around the end of World War II, points to the possibility that social changes led to a change in the ecology of influenza viruses."

bob2356 says

The article was about overall rate decrease, not controlled studies between vaccinated and non vaccinated populations.

Of course because there are none, so nobody can claim superior effectiveness outweighing any risk either. This was just an observation, not a conclusion. You don't have to prove the negative to maintain a skeptical view, esp. if there is no proof to the contrary. These observations are material enough to recommend a case-by-case decision. I didn't omit the next paragraph on purpose, and it further dislocates mortality rates from vaccinations anyways. And that's' usually what most people care about. By the way the CDC used to claim 70%-90% effectiveness and has now arrived at 50%-60%.

Call it Crazy says

mell says

By the way the CDC used to claim 70%-90% effectiveness and has now arrived at 50%-60%.

Which is why I stay away from it... I'll take my chances with those odds versus putting some strange vaccine in my system...

For people who may have had the flu at least once (and no or no recent flu shot) there's an interesting alternative: Go to a doctor and get a lab slip for influenza antibody testing (it's cheap enough to pay for yourself). You will get antibody results for type A and B, which are the two main types. If your test is positive for either one or both, you may have decent enough immunity against strains of that main type (or both). For example this year it's mainly type A (e.g. H3N2). I am unclear though how long the antibodies last that these tests check for - some tests mention it's only a couple of months, but many report they have elevated levels in their results without having been sick lately, so they may last much longer. Of course this is not medical advice, talk to your doc, blah blah.. :)

http://io9.com/5730895/swine-flu-gives-its-survivors-supercharged-immunity-could-create-universal-flu-vaccine

Question: why is everyone afraid of vaccines?

JH says

Question: why is everyone afraid of vaccines?

Because GBS is nothing to sneeze at.

mell says

JH says

Question: why is everyone afraid of vaccines?

Because GBS is nothing to sneeze at.

NIH: "In rare instances, vaccinations may increase the risk of GBS."

Do you ever drive in SF? That is FAR more dangerous. "But I have to drive." Ok, whatevs

Call it Crazy says

JH says

Do you ever drive in SF? That is FAR more dangerous. "But I have to drive." Ok, whatevs

Hey, new opportunity for you, create a vaccine to protect you when driving in SF! You'll be rich!

If only I had slept at Holiday Inn Express last night!

mell says

Of course because there are none, so nobody can claim superior effectiveness outweighing any risk either. This was just an observation, not a conclusion. You don't have to prove the negative to maintain a skeptical view, esp. if there is no proof to the contrary. These observations are material enough to recommend a case-by-case decision. I didn't omit the next paragraph on purpose, and it further dislocates mortality rates from vaccinations anyways.

No it doesn't. The article clearly talks about mortality rates before and after vaccines. The entire paragraph discusses the even lower mortality rates after vaccines and possible reasons. Objectively discusses which is nice.

If you don't want it simply don't take it. I think there is some value, I get it. I'm not worried about mortality, just being totally miserable for 2-3 weeks. I do object to clowns like the captain who thinks it shouldn't exist because he doesn't like it or the curious idiot who sees everything medical as a giant profit center ripping off the entire population with no benefit at all.

Call it Crazy says

tough it out for a day or so when I have it,

lol-- a day or two??

You've either never had the flu or have a very bad memory.

no vaccine needed.
all you need is a cork.

Call it Crazy says

JH says

Do you ever drive in SF? That is FAR more dangerous. "But I have to drive." Ok, whatevs

Hey, new opportunity for you, create a vaccine to protect you when driving in SF! You'll be rich!

tatupu70 says

Call it Crazy says

tough it out for a day or so when I have it,

lol-- a day or two??

You've either never had the flu or have a very bad memory.

When I get them often they are often one or two day affairs.
The 24 hour flu.

Colds on the other hand can go on for weeks.

Is there anything that the Captain doesn't blame on everyone else (or Obama) - and about which he is actually informed? He's increasingly pissed off every day, and sounds like my crazy uncle right before we put him in the psych ward.

Zat you, Uncle Sol?

CaptainShuddup says

When I get them often they are often one or two day affairs.

The 24 hour flu.

Colds on the other hand can go on for weeks

The "24 hour flu" is not influenza. If you've had the real flu, you'd know it. It would be 2 weeks of high fever, nausea, horrible headaches, coughing, etc.

tatupu70 says

It would be 2 weeks of high fever, nausea, horrible headaches, coughing, etc.

You guys must be tepid sickly little girly boys. I've had the flu many times. It's gone by the third day.

CaptainShuddup says

You guys must be tepid sickly little girly boys. I've had the flu many times. It's gone by the third day.

No, you haven't. Clearly you don't know what the flu is.

My mom gets the "flu" all the time like just capn. I roll my eyes at her too. When she gets the real flu she calls it something else like bronchitis. That way she doesn't need flu shots either.

There are many strains of the flu - some will kick your ass for days. Call it Crazy says

Fix your general health an don't be a pansy and you won't suffer for 2 weeks from the flu, it will pass a lot faster!

When I've gotten the flu, which is rare, It might slow me down to half-speed for a day or two max, then I suck it up and deal with it until it passes. It's mind over matter.

The flu is a virus. It's not "mind over matter," no matter what you think. People actually die from the flu. You've been lucky and haven't been infected with one of the worse strains of the flu.

It'll kick your ass. Even if you wear ladies panties whilst you accuse others of doing the same.

Call it Crazy says

bob2356 says

just being totally miserable for 2-3 weeks.

How would we know, you're miserable for the other 49-50 weeks here?

Only when I read your posts. It's just painful to see someone waste 6 years of perfectly good schooling the way you do. I'm sure if you had really applied yourself you could have gone to to intermediate school.