« prev   random   next »

2
1

How to stop state terrorists: seize their assets

By jazz_music follow jazz_music   2014 Nov 6, 10:17am 19,888 views   62 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/22/stop-state-terrorists-seize-assets

This is what to do before or after indictment of corrupt officials and businesses.

We can not only indict a lot of government officials and emboldened businessmen, but we can use the ultimate weapon: claw back the ill gotten gains and use the existing policies of Civil Forfeiture on these, the real villains.

Civil forfeiture works like this. We do it all the time on the highway, we accuse your money of a crime and then the police take it away so you have to get a dream team of lawyers to get it back. Same with your house, car, aircraft, boat too: Any asset. Let's expand that. Magnitsky sanctions! Revoke their passports. Block their private jets from taking off.

The French judiciary has said that the law does not protect stolen money. I am sure that diplomats in London and Washington are whispering warnings about dictatorships the west supports in Bahrain and Egypt. Against them lies the effectiveness of the best modern response to state terror, claw-back.

... We will change the locks of your apartments on Fifth Avenue, the Avenue Montaigne and Kensington Palace Gardens. We will shutter your villas of Cap Ferrat. Then we will empty your bank accounts so completely you will realise that all your thieving has been for nothing."

#crime

« First    « Previous    Comments 23 - 62 of 62    Last »

23   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2014 Nov 6, 12:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

The money is all leaving our system at the top. Gone. Is that how the free market works? Maybe, huh?

10% more of the wealth vanished from society in the last 3 year period. That deserves some real answers NOW while courts still have any authority left at all.

24   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 6, 12:01pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz music says

The money is all leaving our system at the top. Gone. Is that how the free market works? Maybe, huh?

10% more of the wealth vanished from society in the last 3 year period. That deserves some real answers NOW while courts still have any authority left at all.

As the poor never had any wealth anyway, what difference does it make?

25   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 6, 1:45pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Wealth is being created all over the world. Unfortunate for some, globalization is less kind to them.

Those who detest income equality tend to be the same people who are against giving a chance to the developing world. They cry foul against so-called the "birth lottery" in America, yet they care not about such randomness in the world.

26   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 6, 1:47pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Poor people remain poor because they do not understand that fighting for equality is not as productive as putting their individual selves on the right side of inequality.

27   Robert Sproul   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 6, 11:15pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

Name one family.

Here is how Philly is using it's seizure racket against innocent families:
"Back in March, Chris’s son was caught selling $40 worth of drugs outside of the home. With no previous arrests or a prior record, a court ordered him to attend rehab. But the very day Sourovelis was driving his son to begin treatment, he got a frantic call from his wife. Without any prior notice, police evicted the Sourovelises and seized the house, using a little-known law known as “civil forfeiture.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/08/26/philadelphia-civil-forfeiture-class-action-lawsuit/

28   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 6, 11:43pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Robert Sproul says

Here is how Philly is using it's seizure racket against innocent families:

Scary. The parents did nothing wrong. Landlords could face this issue too.
Stupid laws need to be changed.

29   Vicente   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 6, 11:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz music says

What is American and free about any of that?

Land of the fee and home of the pantywaist!

30   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 12:03am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

They could direct wealth to Russia, the new capital of global reaction. But trusting the Putin regime and Russia's corrupt banking system and judiciary has never been wise.

The Law of Unintended Consequences: shit will happen that you never imagined.

When the U.S. tried to financially hurt Putin, he ended up fucking over western Europe. The "state terrorists", or more accurately named corrupt government officials, could easily move their assets to Russia or China or many other places out of reach of the U.S. government, and in doing so, threaten the U.S.'s financial dominance. They could also create their own financial institutions. Remember, this article is talking about terrorist governments, not non-government terrorist organizations.

Hell, by the criteria of the article, the United States government is the largest "state terrorist" organization. The U.S. has used torture, rape, and murder against civilians, including innocent, law-biding citizens with no connections to terrorist or even political groups. Other states are quite capable of ceasing U.S. assets in response to U.S. policy and would have the moral high ground and firm basis in historical fact to do so.

The bigger picture is that we live in a single, small, global economy. If we allow individual nation-states to unilaterally cease assets based on their political agendas then we will lose the trust necessary for international business cooperation and other states will retaliate. Not even the U.S. can act as a bully-boy on the international banking scene. Doing so will cause the entire world, including transnational corporations that are loyal to no state, to join another economic powerhouse like BRICS.

Furthermore, the U.S. cannot be trusted not to abuse and misuse the power for the personal profits of individual agents. Cops cease money in a way that is theft by any common sense definition, and do so for personal gain, and the law is written to allow and encourage such crimes. The conflict of interest is simply too great for such a power not to be abused. And the U.S. in particular is a corrupt state with a criminal history of exactly such abuse.

There is a solution, however. In order for such a mechanism to work, we would have to defer power to an international organization that represents most, if not all, nations in the world. The U.N. is the obvious example, but not the only one.

In order for such a solution to work, we must first make substantial reforms in our banking system. You cannot serve two masters. And we cannot implement such a solution as long as bankers are allowed to manipulate markets and commit vast financial fraud. We first need to implement a transparent, accountable banking system and that means greatly diminishing the power of private banks. Unfortunately, I don't see the U.S. having the political will to do so.

31   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 1:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

The Law of Unintended Consequences: shit will happen that you never imagined.

When the U.S. tried to financially hurt Putin, he ended up fucking over western Europe. The "state terrorists", or more accurately named corrupt government officials, could easily move their assets to Russia or China or many other places out of reach of the U.S. government, and in doing so, threaten the U.S.'s financial dominance.

What a load of crap. It's the wealthy Russians who are moving their money into Western countries because they don't trust their corrupt government. Why do you think the Ruble and Russian stocks collapsed.

Dan8267 says

Hell, by the criteria of the article, the United States government is the largest "state terrorist" organization. The U.S. has used torture, rape, and murder against civilians, including innocent, law-biding citizens with no connections to terrorist or even political groups. Other states are quite capable of ceasing U.S. assets in response to U.S. policy and would have the moral high ground and firm basis in historical fact to do so.

More Crap. China and Russia have nowhere near the rights we give our citizens. We even give equal rights to illegal aliens, and build resorts for their kids.
The Middle East enforces the sharia was - "Mother lode of bad ideas"
Do you have any idea what you are saying?

Dan8267 says

The bigger picture is that we live in a single, small, global economy. If we allow individual nation-states to unilaterally cease assets based on their political agendas then we will lose the trust necessary for international business cooperation and other states will retaliate.

Still more crap. So far international businesses trust the US the most. We are a safe harbor every time there are international problems.

I think you and Jazz Music should do yourselves a favor and move somewhere else.

32   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 7, 1:38am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Robert Sproul says

Strategist says



Name one family.


Here is how Philly is using it's seizure racket against innocent families:
"Back in March, Chris’s son was caught selling $40 worth of drugs outside of the home. With no previous arrests or a prior record, a court ordered him to attend rehab. But the very day Sourovelis was driving his son to begin treatment, he got a frantic call from his wife. Without any prior notice, police evicted the Sourovelises and seized the house, using a little-known law known as “civil forfeiture.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/08/26/philadelphia-civil-forfeiture-class-action-lawsuit/

Class action lawsuit will only take tax payers money again. they should be able to go after the folks who actually did these and the fools who passed such laws .

33   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 1:40am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

LOL. 4 minutes after I posted above, CNBC reported that the Russian Ruble in in a free fall with panic setting in.
They also mentioned Russia is hurting bad "because it produces almost nothing, and has to import everything."
Dan, please take your money to Russia, and best of luck.

34   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 2:02am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

The Law of Unintended Consequences: shit will happen that you never imagined.

When the U.S. tried to financially hurt Putin, he ended up fucking over western Europe. The "state terrorists", or more accurately named corrupt government officials, could easily move their assets to Russia or China or many other places out of reach of the U.S. government, and in doing so, threaten the U.S.'s financial dominance.

What a load of crap. It's the wealthy Russians who are moving their money into Western countries because they don't trust their corrupt government.

So, according to you the wealthy are state terrorists then. After all, that is specifically what we are talking about.

A wealthy person who made their living ethically might want to move money out of Russia, but a Russian state terrorist has the backing of his state and does not need to fear his state ceasing his assets. The same goes for state terrorists in the United States. I don't remember George W. Bush's assets being ceased. Nor were Obama's. Yet both committed the very crimes against humanity that the original article was discussing.

Strategist says

Other states are quite capable of ceasing U.S. assets in response to U.S. policy and would have the moral high ground and firm basis in historical fact to do so.

More Crap. China and Russia have nowhere near the rights we give our citizens.

Irrelevant. America has committed:
1. Over a dozen genocides
2. A hundred years of enslavement. More if you include the slaves today in the prison system.
3. Torture
4. Rape as torture
5. Attacking unarmed, naked prisoners with animals that ripped their flesh open.
6. Nuking two cities populated by civilians.
7. Imprisoning people for decades for profit and political gain.
8. Abusing prisoners.

America has no high moral ground. Yeah, even Russia and China can point their fingers at the U.S. and honestly say, "hell, we never did anything like nuke a city full of children".

35   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 2:03am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

So far international businesses trust the US the most.

That is subject to change. Transnational organizations are not loyal to the U.S. They have demonstrated their willingness and capacity to move business to other countries at the mere perception that it is in their best interest. Just look at manufacturing or IT.

36   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 2:05am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

I think you and Jazz Music should do yourselves a favor and move somewhere else.

And I wish your mother got an abortion. We can't all get what we want.

I'm a hell of a lot more in line with American political philosophy than you are. Real Americans
1. Believe in equality under law for all.
2. Revolution
3. Transparency and accountability in government.

You have consistently displayed opposition to all of these things.

37   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 2:07am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

Dan, please take your money to Russia, and best of luck.

Another Straw Man argument. I made to implication that people should invest in Russia. I simply stated that state terrorists, as the term is used in the original article, can keep their assets safe from U.S. confiscation. You have not refuted this point or even addressed it.

Is you reading comprehension so bad that you did not understand this?

38   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 2:13am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

What a load of crap. It's the wealthy Russians who are moving their money into Western countries because they don't trust their corrupt government.

So, according to you the wealthy are state terrorists then. After all, that is specifically what we are talking about.

That's according to you, not me.

Dan8267 says

A wealthy person who made their living ethically might want to move money out of Russia, but a Russian state terrorist has the backing of his state and does not need to fear his state ceasing his assets.

Anyone with money would want to get out because everyday the weak Ruble diminishes their wealth.

Dan8267 says

The same goes for state terrorists in the United States. I don't remember George W. Bush's assets being ceased. Nor were Obama's. Yet both committed the very crimes against humanity that the original article was discussing.

They committed no crimes.

Dan8267 says

Irrelevant. America has committed:

1. Over a dozen genocides

2. A hundred years of enslavement. More if you include the slaves today in the prison system.

3. Torture

4. Rape as torture

5. Attacking unarmed, naked prisoners with animals that ripped their flesh open.

6. Nuking two cities populated by civilians.

7. Imprisoning people for decades for profit and political gain.

8. Abusing prisoners.

Every country/region of the world has committed atrocities at some point in their history. Today, some are still committing crimes, and it's not us.

39   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 2:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Dan, please take your money to Russia, and best of luck.

Another Straw Man argument.

It's my request to you.

Dan8267 says

I made to implication that people should invest in Russia. I simply stated that state terrorists, as the term is used in the original article, can keep their assets safe from U.S. confiscation. You have not refuted this point or even addressed it.

We have no state terrorists. Nothing to refute.

Dan8267 says

Is you reading comprehension so bad that you did not understand this?

I got a "C" in reading comprehension. What did you get?

40   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 2:21am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

That's according to you, not me.

Facts aren't subject to opinions.

Strategist says

Anyone with money would want to get out because everyday the weak Ruble diminishes their wealth.

Assets can be moved to a multitudes of countries, not just Russia. Furthermore, not all assets are cash and thus subject to diminished from currency debasement. They can put their assets in the form of
- diamonds
- gold
- owner bearer bonds from any country including the U.S., the Bahamas, the U.K.
- BitCoin
- Chinese stocks owned by a Russian registered corporation.

None of the above could be ceased by the U.S., not even the owner bearer bonds. You know jack shit about financial instruments.

41   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 2:22am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

The same goes for state terrorists in the United States. I don't remember George W. Bush's assets being ceased. Nor were Obama's. Yet both committed the very crimes against humanity that the original article was discussing.

They committed no crimes.

They committed torture. That's an international crime and illegal in the U.S. Whether or not our government is so corrupt that it doesn't prosecute high ranking politicians who commit crimes is irrelevant to the fact that both of these presidents have committed crimes.

You commonly make assertions that contradict historical fact. When you do this, you are always by definition wrong.

42   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 2:24am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

Every country/region of the world has committed atrocities at some point in their history. Today, some are still committing crimes, and it's not us.

1. Every act I stated has been committed by our government. That is historical fact, not opinion.

2. The fact that other nations commit crimes does not mitigate the seriousness of the crimes committed by our government. You argument that it does is equivalent to arguing that a rapist should not be prosecuted because other people have committed rape, so it's a wash. That is a stupid and repulsive argument.

43   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 2:26am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

I got a "C" in reading comprehension. What did you get?

I got "A"s in everything -- except gym, I'll admit that -- and from real schools. Your "C" would probably have been an "F" in the schools I attended.

44   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 2:34am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I got a "C" in reading comprehension. What did you get?

I got "A"s in everything -- except gym, I'll admit that -- and from real schools. Your "C" would probably have been an "F" in the schools I attended.

he he he. I knew you would say "A"
I was talking about Universities.

45   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2014 Nov 7, 2:39am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Dan and other genuinely interesting PatNet contributors

Patnet's trolls have no intention of debating anything. You can invest your day arguing whether shit is brown with them and they'll just insult because that is why they are here. Give a topic your level best and they will just mock you and ennoble themselves.

Aim posts at the readers, the infrequent commenters who might enjoy a fresh point of view as alternate to corporate agenda media.

46   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 2:58am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz music says

Dan and other genuinely interesting PatNet contributors

Patnet's trolls have no intention of debating anything. You can invest your day arguing whether shit is brown with them and they'll just insult because that is why they are here. Give a topic your level best and they will just mock you and ennoble themselves.

Aim posts at the readers, the infrequent commenters who might enjoy a fresh point of view as alternate to corporate agenda media.

Translation.......Time to run with our tails between our legs. :)

47   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 3:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Call it Crazy says

jazz music says

Aim posts at the readers, the infrequent commenters who might enjoy a fresh point of view as alternate to corporate agenda media.

Yet, he calls other points of view different than his, trolls!

What a pile of Bullshit!!

If Jazz was a democratic party strategist, they would lose every time.

48   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 3:27am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

I was talking about Universities.

Same results, both in undergraduate and graduate school.

You do realize you're arguing over academic performance with a nerd, right? I'm the type of guy that people like you hated for throwing the class curve. I'm the type of guy who continued to work hard at a class that's interesting long after I've secured the A.

49   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 3:28am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

jazz music says

Patnet's trolls have no intention of debating anything.

True, but there is a point in ridiculing the village idiot. It's to discourage others from also taking on the roll.

50   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 5:02am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

I'm the type of guy that people like you hated

Your finally recognizing that.... The first step in recovery is accepting that you have a problem!

I have no problem with the fact that morons like you hate intelligent, well hung, and financially successful persons like me. I wear it like a badge of honor.

51   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 5:26am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I was talking about Universities.

Same results, both in undergraduate and graduate school.

You do realize you're arguing over academic performance with a nerd, right? I'm the type of guy that people like you hated for throwing the class curve. I'm the type of guy who continued to work hard at a class that's interesting long after I've secured the A.

Wow. I was just a bum in college getting straight D's. :(
If you continued to work hard at a class, you must have got straight F's. :)

52   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 5:29am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

I'm the type of guy that people like you hated

Your finally recognizing that.... The first step in recovery is accepting that you have a problem!

I have no problem with the fact that morons like you hate intelligent, well hung, and financially successful persons like me. I wear it like a badge of honor.

When the minimum wage is raised you will be even more financially successful. I'm so jealous. :)

53   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 5:33am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

financially successful persons like me.

What's the plural of "person" Dan? It's "people" Sure you got an "A" in English?

Plural Noun Forms - Guide to Grammar and Writing
grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/.../plurals.htm
Capital Community College
The plural form of most nouns is created simply by adding the letter s. ... more than one man = men; more than one person = people; more than one goose = ...

54   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 5:38am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Hey Jazz, you need to help your friend. He keeps getting slaughtered.

55   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2014 Nov 7, 5:40am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

Facts aren't subject to opinions.

In honest conversation this is true.

Many (most) conversations here mock honest conversation claiming a self-victory and hopelessness for an opponent by thwarting the conversation yet continuing to present comments that either demean, ridicule or both.

Of course the ilk of Rush Limbaugh show always get their victory because they are in control of the microphones at all times.

Newscorp MANAGEMENT fabricates fearful realities that NEVER happened for their affiliates to broadcast in sync every day, this practice goes wayyy beyond spin, and the next step is elevating those fears to crises so that people watching TV or listening to radios cannot avoid hearing about them no matter where they live. So EVERYTHING they fabricate EVERY DAY achieves the STATUS of INESCAPABLE fact.

lost and confused will gleefully tell you what "normal people" are supposed to think.

lostand confused says

Idealism coupled with hatred of the wealthy. Sigh

. Most normal people would say the gubmnt has to lose some powers ...

And of course Newscorp broadcasting budgets are unlimited because those costs are a PROVEN investment in stampeding us into business-facilitating directions. (regardless of self-defeat)

Lots of fear and tough-talk every day detail to us all why we are to remain silent and accommodatiing.

Apparently Ukraine and Egypt et al are nowhere near as slick in their media ministry effect as our western broadcasting.

The last thing Newscorp will ever tell you is that the government BELONGS TO US and is there to be driven by somebody other than them

56   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 6:26am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

Strategist says

If you continued to work hard at a class, you must have got straight F's.

Conservative logic.

Strategist says

What's the plural of "person" Dan? It's "people" Sure you got an "A" in English?

Actually, the word people refers to multiple persons as a group, whereas the word persons is the plural of person expressed as individuals rather than as a group.

For example, the Celtic were a noble people. Notice how people is used as a singular. Another example, persons with high LDC are more at risk of having a heart attack. The use of persons is appropriate because two individuals don't have a collective heart attack.

So, you see, my use of the word persons was correct. And that means your accusation of ignorance is rather ironic.

Glad to teach you something...

57   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2014 Nov 7, 6:28am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

jazz music says

Many (most) conversations here mock honest conversation claiming a self-victory and hopelessness for an opponent by thwarting the conversation yet continuing to present comments that either demean, ridicule or both.

Yep, CIC and Strategist are two perfect examples of this.

58   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 7:33am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

Hey Jazz, you need to help your friend. He keeps getting slaughtered.

That drunk won't see our comments because he has us on ignore!

Oh he is reading our comments alright, maybe without logging in. He's too chicken to face us. He knows he'll get fried.

59   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Nov 7, 7:47am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Dan8267 says

jazz music says

Many (most) conversations here mock honest conversation claiming a self-victory and hopelessness for an opponent by thwarting the conversation yet continuing to present comments that either demean, ridicule or both.

Yep, CIC and Strategist are two perfect examples of this.

Well guys, it was fun.
I'm off to pick up my son from campus. If he's falling behind his grades I'm gonna take away his new iPhone.

60   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2014 Nov 7, 7:50am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

I keep forgetting to mention that NewsCorp. and other GOP affiliates have plenty of budget for websites too, but that's just because those websites are so very forgettable. Of course all of that synchronizes with the daily management sanctioned "reality."

The "matrix" of all the above is what is meant by living in the right wing bubble. GOP's echo chamber as it were.

61   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2014 Nov 7, 8:35am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz music says

The "matrix" of all the above is what is meant by living in the right wing
bubble. GOP's echo chamber as it were.

If that gives you a sense of purpose-so be it.

62   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2014 Nov 7, 10:30am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag      

lostand confused says

If that gives you a sense of

That statement gives me a definite sense of non sequitur.

« First    « Previous    Comments 23 - 62 of 62    Last »


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions