patrick.net

#4

Why not just get him to agree to pay tuition for your children's private school? You maintain your residence independence, and you don't have to worry about school districts. Probably cheaper and less risky for him, too.

LaMorinda here we come?
Waiting for the next dip (2017/8 according to Ducky) is cutting it close for the start of kindergarten.
I agree with Ceffer, though, I doubt the FIL will see it that way. I'm betting he'd see the tuition as "throwing money away" while the house is an "investment".

Ceffer says

Why not just get him to agree to pay tuition for your children's private school? You maintain your residence independence, and you don't have to worry about school districts. Probably cheaper and less risky for him, too.

Cosign.

Buying a home for a "better school district" is not wise.

Public schools are generally subpar. It's true that the public schools in wealthier areas are better but they are still subpar.

Which is unfair since all public service should be equal regardless of class but that's another topic.

Private school is where you need to send your children. Especially in Southern California.

The amount of money that will be spent on taxes, utilities, maintenance, interest and monthly payments total until it's paid off will be enormous.

All for a public school?

Than she will have to go to college.

If you send her to private school she may do so well that everything maybe paid with a scholarship due to excellent grades from a good private school.

Always send your children to private school if you can from the start.

Yes, Pride is/can be a big issue. Really depends on the relationship that you have with your father-in-law and even with your wife.

It could leave a big unspoken silence hanging over your head at any and all meetings. Since you didn't JUMP at the offer, it means that you're smart to have stepped back and looked at it and you and F-I-L are not BFF.

I'd pass but the suggestion that if he's wanting to help, ask if he'd be willing to pay for private school tuition. I agree that (in my never-to-be humble opinion) that most public schools suck; it's merely to what degree of sucking. Most private schools are MUCH better (although there are of course the stinkers in there too). If he's willing to foot the tuition bill, there probably will be much less expected of you and much less uncomfortable silence at family gatherings.

You'll lose either way.

take this offer and don't listen to rule #4 and don't let your pride fool you

What are the expectations from both parties, and you say for 5 to 10 years.

What is the exit strategy in this plan?
Is this a speculative purchase where he figures in 10 years, there will be a huge equity pay off for him? If so what happens if it's only worth 1/2 or 2/3rds of the purchase price when you're done with it?

From the face of it, it's a matter of letting FIL carry your rent for a decade. But if he's counting it paying him back when he's ready to get out, like a retirement plan. Then that's what I would be careful about.

As a father I can understand wanting to help your kids, and especially help them stay in the area. I don't relish the idea of my tykes growing up and moving away. But blood is thicker than water, and any strife that comes between you and your wife, they will take her side. If you are committed to the marriage tho, with all it's ups and especially downs, and the FIL isn't a jerk, then you could assume good intentions. Having parents nearby is an incredible gift when you have small children, especially if they'll babysit. Having family to help raise kids is nothing to scoff at. Sure there is bound to be drama, but intra family drama is better than intra marriage drama which is what will happen when you're both overwhelmed with parenting responsibilities and haven't had a date night in six months. Your area is great, the only major problem there is how to find housing. It looks like the FIL is willing to help with that MAJOR issue in that area. Your kids will either do well in school or they won't. The "goodness" of public schools is mostly a product of whose kids go there. Stay clear of the gangbanger areas and la Raza contingent and you'll probably be just fine. California schools aren't bad. It's the kids (and esp their parents) that go to some/many of the schools that make them undesirable.

In conclusion, I wish I had your problems. I've been financial on my own since I could vote, and don't live anywhere near family. I'd take in laws every day over nobody. And establishing a place to live has been such a monumental headache that I'm on patnet.

Take the money and then offer to work on his car brakes.

It will be grist for the mill for the rest of your lives.

Even if your FIL doesn't ever mention it, there will be an implied expectation. For example, "hey guys, spend Christmas with me." He knows that you owe him. If you say no, he will think to himself that you are ungrateful. "Look at all I've done for them, and they can't even spend Christmas with me."

Your wife is also likely going to feel guilt over owing her father. Her way of dealing with it might be different from yours. Also, it's possible that this gesture by her father will fortify the parent-child apron string. Instead of her husband being the "provider," it's her father. This could cause problems later on and is just something to think about. You know your wife better than I do, obviously.

All that said... Buying a house is a big deal. It's become ridiculously difficult. You ARE very lucky to have such an offer on the table. If you can honestly know that you would be okay with the resulting expectations and possible role changes (your FIL being a provider to your family) then there's no reason that you shouldn't give yourself an edge on homeownership. Life's tough enough... Some advantages are worth it.

Because of this:

OnTheFence says

we would be on the hook for utilities and maintenance.

Nope.

Roof, plumbing, electrical?

My FIL had a plumbing problem where the line to the street had to be re-run. $8k later it was fixed. They had to bring out heavy equipment and dig up the street.

I agree with this:

turtledove says

It will be grist for the mill for the rest of your lives.

Even if your FIL doesn't ever mention it, there will be an implied expectation. For example, "hey guys, spend Christmas with me." He knows that you owe him. If you say no, he will think to himself that you are ungrateful. "Look at all I've done for them, and they can't even spend Christmas with me."

My FIL is super cool, but I'd never get into this type of agreement with him.

Ceffer says

Why not just get him to agree to pay tuition for your children's private school? You maintain your residence independence, and you don't have to worry about school districts. Probably cheaper and less risky for him, too.

I would prefer him to do just that, but that was not the offer, and at the time (last weekend). So a bit more background, I'm white, and he's Vietnamese. Owning a piece of property is a big deal. So partly he wants his grand daughter to have more room.

The plan would be that after we were ready to buy our own house we would move out and he could do what he wishes with it, sell it, rent it, whatever.

mmmarvel says

Yes, Pride is/can be a big issue. Really depends on the relationship that you have with your father-in-law and even with your wife.

Our relationship is one of distance and we are certainly not close. Again, there is an odd asian father dynamic between him and I (I'm white). He's also a very savvy businessman and has done well for himself.

It's sad to say but I don't want there to be a scenario where he is enabling us to live our lives....it's prideful but can't shake it.

It's a generous offer. Think of all scenarios before you move in. Are you moving into a fixer, how much would it cost to fix it up?

Living rent free for 5 to 10 years is very generous unless there are maintenance costs. Make sure that's in some form of agreement on paper, that he can't just kick you to the curb one day. No paper, you have no way to stay there. Because times change, and people change.

The only real issue here is the #4 and only you know your family.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

Always send your children to private school if you can from the start.

Such nonsense. I went to a public school and see no point in going private unless your public school is ranked lower than a 6 or 7 on GreatSchools.net.

8,9, and 10 ranked public schools beat out most private schools. Perfect example of private school students... Paris Hilton and the Kardashians. If your kid has enough moral compass and is smart enough to avoid the allure of drugs and the fame seekers they will run into in private schools... then they will be smart enough to avoid the wrong crowds in public schools as well. Hire a good tutor if a couple teachers aren't getting through to little Johnny. It would still be way cheaper than private school tuition.

The only reason I would consider sending my kid to a private school is if they were being bullied or put in an unsafe environment in a public school.

Never accept gifts from your enemies.

OnTheFence says

4. I've always heard to not mix family and money, and I never have. Anyone have experience with something like this that ended up turning into a "wish we never would have" scenarios.

Do you like your father-in-law? Is he really able to afford what he is offering.. Or could he fall on hard times and have to rescind the offer. I don't see a big problem with it if your wife isn't worried. Worst case scenario you have to short sale the house or foreclose and your father-in-law takes most of the hit. Can't be much worse than taking a loan from a bank.

CaptainShuddup says

What are the expectations from both parties, and you say for 5 to 10 years.

What is the exit strategy in this plan?

Plan is that we would live in it and then when we can afford to buy our own we will. At current pace, we would like to move to S. Cal for a slightly cheaper housing market and proximity to more of her family. But if this house was in a nice area like Mill Valley than staying put here for a while makes a lot more sense.

Sounds like a scheme to have some level of control over your life.
At best it is very intrusive into something that is really none of his business.

Tell him if you'd like to be your own man, and if he really wants to help he can give his daughter (uummh... or son) an advance on her (his) inheritance.

Quigley says

Having family to help raise kids is nothing to scoff at

They live in outside of California in the deep South, so they wouldn't be coming by and checking in on the house or us often. But I wish the were closer, help with a lot of issues.

OnTheFence says

they wouldn't be coming by and checking in on the house or us often.

Or maybe they would - and they would feel like they own the place.

turtledove says

Your wife is also likely going to feel guilt over owing her father. Her way of dealing with it might be different from yours. Also, it's possible that this gesture by her father will fortify the parent-child apron string. Instead of her husband being the "provider," it's her father. This could cause problems later on and is just something to think about.

This is my fear, in a nut shell. But is it worth passing on such a killer offer. Apart of me feels like I should just swallow my pride and realize it's a nice offer and it can help our family.....the other part is like....you will be the guy who took a handout

OnTheFence says

The plan would be that after we were ready to buy our own house we would move out and he could do what he wishes with it, sell it, rent it, whatever.

Well if you really care about your relationship I would consider that eventuality more carefully than speculating of any historical RE data from the last 10 to 15 years.

joshuatrio says

$8k later it was fixed.

Bang and here is my other issue. We pay $1,200 a month, we're saving. But if we get a $1M property and then some bullshit happens, now we're out the savings we thought we'd be getting. Plus now I'm pissed, and I'm not loving that.

FortWayne says

Think of all scenarios before you move in. Are you moving into a fixer, how much would it cost to fix it up?

I would want a place that is at least 3BR/2BA in at least 2K sq feet.
Amazing public school, and close to San Francisco.

So I'm thinking:

Piedmont or Mill Valley

Capped out around $1M.

If I don't get those, then what's the point. I'd need to upgrade on ALL my areas I lack now:

Size, School, Reduce Probability of major work that I pay out on.

House must be major maintenance free for 10 years.

BoomAndBustCycle says

OnTheFence says

4. I've always heard to not mix family and money, and I never have. Anyone have experience with something like this that ended up turning into a "wish we never would have" scenarios.

Do you like your father-in-law? Is he really able to afford what he is offering.. Or could he fall on hard times and have to rescind the offer. I don't see a big problem with it if your wife isn't worried. Worst case scenario you have to short sale the house or foreclose and your father-in-law takes most of the hit. Can't be much worse than taking a loan from a bank.

Financially he can afford it.

Heraclitusstudent says

Sounds like a scheme to have some level of control over your life.

At best it is very intrusive into something that is really none of his business.

Tell him if you'd like to be your own man, and if he really wants to help he can give his daughter (uummh... or son) an advance on her (his) inheritance.

Hmm hard to say that and not sound like a prick. I'm thinking if I decide to pass on the offer entirely, I just don't send them any homes and never bring it up. Again, this is a very awesome offer.

Heraclitusstudent says

OnTheFence says

they wouldn't be coming by and checking in on the house or us often.

Or maybe they would - and they would feel like they own the place.

Never thought of that....

OnTheFence says

Financially he can afford it.

Then I'd only do it if he gifted the house. There's just way too much that could go wrong any other way. If he just gifts the house from the start, then it will always be it was. Where as the way it is now, you're trying to plan your and his finances ten years from now. What assumed intentions are today, can be to opposite extremes in that timeframe.

OnTheFence says

Hmm hard to say that and not sound like a prick.

Quite frankly the offer is fairly prickly itself. If I had a married daughter I would feel very bad making such an offer, essentially making her family depend on me. By nature this is intrusive in your marriage, which, it should be clear, is none of his business (and you ought to make that CRYSTAL CLEAR).

If my FIL was offering this I would answer immediately: "No thanks I'm doing fine, I don't need your help. I'm not a student anymore. "

If pushed I would say he can make a gift to his daughter. That's between him and her. And that's a one time gift, not a dependency.

I would not accept anything where I feel I owe him. "Good offer" or not. There are way too many unhealthy developments that can come out of it. Most you can't predict.

I agree with the crustacean.

OnTheFence says

My Father in law made me an offer to find a home in an area with good schools
that will be something we can live in 5-10 years. He would take care of the
purchase price and payments, we would be on the hook for utilities and
maintenance

What is the question again?????????

OnTheFence says

would want a place that is at least 3BR/2BA in at least 2K sq feet.
Amazing
public school, and close to San Francisco.

You ever hear of the term," Do not look a gift horse in the mouth."

99/1 you take it based on this freudian slip.

OnTheFence says

Again, this is a very awesome offer.

There Ain't No Free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzmie60cpwo

Just think:
- If you don't take the offer your wife will hate you condemning her to a life of (relative) poverty.
- If you take the offer, she will implicitly consider this comes from her (as in: not from you) and treat you like an inferior. It will probably also reduce her sex drive as she will feel you're not the "provider" she once thought you were.

You're sooo screwed.

Herac brings up a very good point... If you don't take the offer:

1) Will your wife resent you?
2) Will your FIL forever refer to you as his dumbass son-in-law who doesn't know when to take someone up on a good offer? (FIL not seeing any strings, implied or otherwise).

Instead of the living arrangement, ask to just borrow the downpayment and pay back every red cent. Saving 1500 a month does squat to homeownership goals in sfba.

I don't see where you mention career goals? Housing decisions are usually centered around a job.

The context you give is regarding the house and the family.

Sort of like trying to plot a course with out a destination? or am I missing something?

In any case now is Not the time to buy a house. Things are going to correct in the not too distant future. I don't when, but the signs are everywhere that it is going to correct. The problem is that the Fed has pledged to keep the stock market up and presumably RE.

Read Patrick's book on the housing trap.

Housing is big thing for your FIL, be careful that you do not tacitly make it your thing as well.