patrick.net

I would love to buy that GT-500!

jvolstad says

I would love to buy that GT-500!

No way man, THIS is the MUSCLECAR you want!

http://www.youtube.com/embed/3Qd6QqN6MJg

This is more in my budget range.

jvolstad says

This is more in my budget range.

Well if you want GERMAN, THIS is for you!

Its a BF-109 for the road.

(Machine guns and 20mm cannon not included)

jvolstad says

This is more in my budget range.

I doubt it--you'd be surprised at the huge prices these little things are bringing today!

New Renter says

Its a BF-109 for the road.

Also another high dollar vehicle--around $30,000 today. Watched a '57 noir movie over two years ago, there's a scene where the villian comes around the corner and parks one in front of a club, gets out, then gets back in and drives off.

P N Dr Lo R says

I doubt it--you'd be surprised at the huge prices these little things are bringing today!

$15-25k restored, $1-2.5k bring a trailer.

Pretty typical for a mid 50s or 60's European car.

Still why buy that when you can have one of these babies!

http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/2007/10/01/hmn_feature8.html

If your're on a budget that is

New Renter says

Still why buy that when you can have one of these babies!

The so-called "wedge" cars of the '80s are supposedly the next hot thing as younger age collectors are getting just old enough to get nostalgiac and don't have the same boomer hang-ups on '60s muscle cars. I casually chased 1985 Subaru XT coupes for a couple years but all of these '80s wedge cars were such POSes that you will be hard pressed to find a decent one today, and they are not worth anything to spend the $$$ to restore--if you can even find parts and proper materials.

Philistine says

I casually chased 1985 Subaru XT coupes for a couple years but all of these '80s wedge cars were such POSes that you will be hard pressed to find a decent one today

Which will make the existing pristine examples worth that much more.

Still the only thing good about these or any older car is the novelty and styling. I used to like the styling of the mid 1980's Celica and Supras. Didn't care much for the generations that came after that. As far as performance, reliability, ergonomics and safety goes, well I'll stick with modern cars.

New Renter says

As far as performance, reliability, ergonomics and safety goes, well I'll stick with modern cars.

Case in point:

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Toyota-0-60-mph-Times.html

2012 Toyota Yaris SE Hatchback (Manual) 0-60 mph 8.8 Quarter Mile 16.8

1984 Toyota Celica GT-S 0-60 mph 11.6 Quarter mile 17.9

1984 Toyota Supra 0-60 mph 8.5 Quarter mile 16.5

So a modern YARIS is on par with a mid 80's Supra and blows the doors off a Celica.

Gotta love progress.

New Renter says

Gotta love progress

The modern cars have it all over the older cars as far as performance goes. You'd better enjoy them while they're available, too, because by their very nature they are not going to exist 30-40 years from now, of course neither will I so I don't care. Their plastic components and complicated electronics are going to make them go the way of household appliances--they won't be economical to repair when they reach the end of the useful lives just as household applicances won't be. I kind of date these kinds of cars from the advent of airbags which add so much complications to even the least expensive cars to make their restorations or maintenance prohibitive. Sensors galore and all the componetry involved in the most expensive part of any car, the cowl section and dashboard, will make them impossible to restore. The bodies have to be removed to pull the engines out of modern Camaros and Corvettes.

Yaris runs a 16.8 1/4 mile?

Not too shabby

New Renter says

Still the only thing good about these or any older car is the novelty and styling. I used to like the styling of the mid 1980's Celica and Supras. Didn't care much for the generations that came after that. As far as performance, reliability, ergonomics and safety goes, well I'll stick with modern cars.

As a hobby old cars are great. The 350 Chevy I ran in my 1970 Land Cruiser FJ40 had one vacuum line for distributor advance and a second inch long one for the carb secondaris. For wiring there was 12V to the ignition and a tachometer lead. No mysterious boxes that run on magical smoke. Easy to work on and as far removed from software engineering as you can get.

Compare and contrast that with my modern computer controlled German car. Four out of my last four professional mechanics have been unable to clear the "interval 1 minor service required" state (the one before that did a fine job, but I'm not driving 2000 miles round-trip for service).

The hazard control switch including the hazard/turn signal flasher, security system pilot light, and a back light is complicated enough it breaks after a few years and costs $115 to replace from amazon.com.

P N Dr Lo R says

The bodies have to be removed to pull the engines out of modern Camaros and Corvettes.

That's the beauty, you don't have to work on them much anymore. Taken care of a modern engine will last pretty much forever, especially something as relatively simple as a pushrod GM V8. Engines go for 100k+ miles now with nothing more than periodic oil changes. No points to fry and in most cases no distributors. Fuel injection works, period.

Gotta love progress.

And when self driving cars go mainstream performance will no longer matter because cars will be robotically driven to maximize efficiency, comfort and safety. No need for a 500 HP, 600 ft/lb 8 MPG drivetrain when its a robot doing the driving. What will be under the hood? Maybe HCCI/electric drivetrains, fuel cells, microturbines, there are lots of options.

As such cars become more common and sophisticated they should be able to network to map road hazards. This will allow other cars to easily avoid said hazards. No more slowdowns because of rubbernecking assholes either.

Another benefit of this will be a lessened need for performance oriented sticky rubber tires and performance tuned suspensions. This will yield yet more MPG gains with greater comfort and safety. Networking the cars will allow them to be packed much closer together on the road thus minimizing losses to air resistance and increasing traffic density with no gridlock. I imagine 100 MPG should be doable, all with far greater comfort and safety for the passengers.

It gets better. When the car's tank does eventually get low I am imagining the car will even be able to go gas itself up pairing with sites like gasbuddy to find the best deal. Servicing too, it'll just drive itself to the tire shop or smog check after the owner sets up the appointment online. Need to do some grocery shopping but the store doesn't deliver? Order online and send the car to go pick it up.

Its a brave new world.

drew_eckhardt says

Compare and contrast that with my modern computer controlled German car.

That was your mistake. Next time buy Japanese/American. My Honda Accord has 100k on the clock and runs like a top with nothing more than tires, filters and oil changes.

Paint could be better though :(

My stepdads X5 OTOH was a horrible POS. Stuff that should never fail did, regularly and was damned expensive to replace with more crappy failure prone OEM parts

errc says

Yaris runs a 16.8 1/4 mile?

Not too shabby

YMMV:

17.5 here,
http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2012_toyota_yaris

17.0 here,
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1110_2012_toyota_yaris_se_first_test/

Still for a modern Tercel, not bad at all.

P N Dr Lo R says

I kind of date these kinds of cars from the advent of airbags which add so much complications to even the least expensive cars to make their restorations or maintenance prohibitive. Sensors galore and all the componetry involved in the most expensive part of any car, the cowl section and dashboard, will make them impossible to restore. The bodies have to be removed to pull the engines out of modern Camaros and Corvettes.

yadda, yadda, yadda. I've been hearing this song since the first electronic distributor was introduced in the late 70's (some people actually hated giving up points). then OMG the fox mustang got sefi. wailing and gnashing of teeth,hot rodding is over. except somehow the 5.0 fuelie became the most hot rodded car ever made. you could probably build a fox body mustang completely out of aftermarket parts at this point. now sn95, and the s-197 (seriously considering one, first good looking mustang since 1970, I owned a heavily modified four eye fox for years but was never entranced with the looks) have tons of tuners and aftermarket. there are 2-3 magazines just devoted to modifying late model stang's. that's just one model of car.

get with the program. buy a good pc based diagnostic and learn how to use it auto enginuity makes a great unit. i've got one of those awful german electronic marvel cars (late e39 540 vanos with a vortech supercharger) that I do all my own work on. not that I do all that much work, it's a very reliable car. btw I can have the dash out in under an hour on that car. there is already tons of aftermarket out there for almost everything I could want.

You can't take the body off corvettes and camaro's, they are unibody not body over frame.

But how do you change ugly? Nothing will ever compare to the beauty of pre-government regulation cars. A '63-'64 Riviera or Grand Prix will always be and look superior to anything on the road today or tomorrow.

New Renter says

And when self driving cars go mainstream performance will no longer matter because cars will be robotically driven to maximize efficiency

But it's an appliance, not a car.

errc says

Yaris runs a 16.8 1/4 mile

But it's a Yaris--even the name is silly.

P N Dr Lo R says

But how do you change ugly? Nothing will ever compare to the beauty of pre-government regulation cars. A '63-'64 Riviera or Grand Prix will always be and look superior to anything on the road today or tomorrow.

'63-'64 Riviera

'63-'64 Grand Prix

Someone call the Navy, one of their carriers has beached!

There are beautiful pre-regulation cars. Mercedes 300SL comes to mind as does the 1963 Corvette.

These however are not. To my eye anyway.

P N Dr Lo R says

New Renter says

And when self driving cars go mainstream performance will no longer matter because cars will be robotically driven to maximize efficiency

But it's an appliance, not a car.

Which is what it is meant to be. A device to get people and good from point A to Point B as quickly and safely as possible.

P N Dr Lo R says

errc says

Yaris runs a 16.8 1/4 mile

But it's a Yaris--even the name is silly.

Fine, you can call it Rivera or Gran Prix if it makes you feel better.