patrick.net

How come TX has such high taxes??

TX has no income tax.

Her bungalow is "Just south of downtown", so I take it to mean her property has greatly appreciated if she's within walking distance of Austin, which is a very desirable area for culture, education, arts, etc.

Without knowing how much her property is worth, and I suspect it was left out on purpose, the article isn't very helpful. If it's $8,500 on a $800k property, so what?

The mystatesman.com article linked also talks about how commercial property owners can get their property taxes reduced to a fraction, and there is no commercial property disclosure in Texas, so the public can't tell who is paying less than their fair share.

Naturally the Free Marketeers want a sales tax - which will fall just when you need it to prop up a sagging economy - over a property tax, so they can earn more minimal work income with less taxes as landlords.

The taxes down here GREATLY depend on where you live. We have no income tax, so it all comes from sales tax and property tax. Austin is the place that we corral the liberals so they LOVE to come up with lots of great 'feel-good' ideas and worry about paying for it later; well, this liberal lady found out that those wonderful ideas cost, and now she's finding out that she can't afford it.

I live in a suburb just outside Houston. My home is 2450 square feet, 3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath. The tax rate is about 4.5%, HOWEVER, that rate is on an appraised value of $120,000. I've seen Redfin, my house would sell for well over $500,000 in most parts of CA. So while the tax rate might be lower in CA, when applied to a valuation that is over 4 times higher ... yeah, I'll stay in Texas.

Texas is attracting people and businesses from built-out California on the promise of lower taxes.

Of course, the taxes are lower because Texas is behind the curve in building out the infastructure needed for the swelling population. Articles about the phenomenon tend to be long on criticisms of taxes, liberals, and California, but tend to not mention traffic and water problems to name a few.

I used to live in Fort Worth. Taxes on a $120,000 home were roughly $4000 a year.

Think the tax rate was 3.5%

Limousine liberal just taxed herself into the ghetto without being in on the pork barrel take somewhere in the equation.

I am sure the denizens of her new neighborhood will greet her with the charm and grace she deserves for her good deeds.

Why do people complain when the chickens come home to roost?

As a single person who cannot itemize, earning roughly double the national per household income in California, I pay quite a decent sum in federal and state taxes. Yet the dingbats around me vote in bond prop after bond prop, and keep voting in representatives who have no issue spending as much taxpayer money as possible. But propose prop 13 be rescinded, or worse yet a rental "tax" surcharge, or worst of all eliminate the home mortgage deduction and you will hear people scream bloody hell.

It seems like there's a awful lot of people who are more than happy to spend other people's money

It's actually a more fair tax than here. Here you'll pay $6500/year for RE tax and another $8500 in state income tax as well as the highest gas tax and registration taxes in the nation.
Tax bill of $8500 is looking darn good.

As a single person who cannot itemize, earning roughly double the national per household income in California

I'm in the same boat as you - single renter tech worker in CA myself - but I am able to itemize my deductions and save much more over the standard deduction. Have you discussed your return with a professional tax advisory?

I don't see what I can itemize on my federal return except my state taxes, and that doesn't yet exceed the standard deduction although it's getting close. If someone told me I could itemize transportation costs for commuting to work(gas, ins, wear and tear, parking) that would put me over the threshold, but other than that, I don't see anything else that could.

DanU says

As a single person who cannot itemize, earning roughly double the national per household income in California

I'm in the same boat as you - single renter tech worker in CA myself - but I am able to itemize my deductions and save much more over the standard deduction. Have you discussed your return with a professional tax advisory?

Automan Empire says

Articles about the phenomenon tend to be long on criticisms of taxes, liberals, and California, but tend to not mention traffic and water problems to name a few.

This same principle applies to Plano where Toyota has transferred its headquarters. Everyone is thrilled, but there really aren't enough homes to accommodate them all. Somewhere in that story it said that several years ago I think it was Nissan moved its headquarters, but only about 40% were willing to leave California, so the migration might not be as large as they anticipate.

Automan Empire says

Articles about the phenomenon tend to be long on criticisms of taxes, liberals, and California, but tend to not mention traffic and water problems to name a few.

Sounds ironic coming from LA (traffic!) in the middle of statewide emergency (water!). ;)

mmmarvel says

I live in a suburb just outside Houston. My home is 2450 square feet, 3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath.

Yeah, of course, your next-door neighbors are a gas station and a nuclear power plant, since Houston has no zoning. :)

Nobody likes paying taxes unless they're completely nuts.

Liberals don't like paying them either: they just vote to make RICHER people pay them.

Texas is nice, but man it's goddamm hot after I've gotten used to 68F summers.

Time to take in some boarders.

corntrollio says

Yeah, of course, your next-door neighbors are a gas station and a nuclear power plant, since Houston has no zoning. :)

You're right about that! Driving around in Houston can make your head swim not only from the high humidity but from some of the combinations of structures found within two blocks of each other. Houston hosted the Texas Antique Car Tour at the Astrodome in '72 and we stayed with friends in Baytown and drove to the place every day--the petrochemical odors changed as you drove along--one odor on the main road to their street, then another odor at their home six blocks down. It was such a bad experience, everyone said they wouldn't go if it was held in Dallas as planned in '73 so it was changed to Kerrville in the Hill Country.

While passing through Junction Texas a few months ago I saw a political ad for the local republican congressional rep. It was full of anti tax rhetoric right up to the final pledge to do whatever it took to keep the local army base open.

It seems as an anti-tax republican its OK to spend tax money on a pointless military base as long as its everyone else paying those taxes.

New Renter says

a pointless military base

By whose assessment is it pointless?

P N Dr Lo R says

By whose assessment is it pointless?

Probably DoD. Congresspersons fight tooth and nail to keep useless military facilities open in their district, even when they don't support current DoD strategy/initiatives.

corntrollio says

P N Dr Lo R says

By whose assessment is it pointless?

Probably DoD. Congresspersons fight tooth and nail to keep useless military facilities open in their district, even when they don't support current DoD strategy/initiatives.

Yep. Just like all those tanks the army didn't want, had no use for but were built anyway and are now collecting dust in the Nevada desert.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/army-to-congress-thanks-but-no-tanks/

clambo says

Nobody likes paying taxes unless they're completely nuts.

Liberals don't like paying them either: they just vote to make RICHER people pay them.

That's a quirky statement since republicans seem to hate taxes, but also seem to have fondness for charitable giving. A rather telling situation IMO.

P N Dr Lo R says

Baytown and drove to the place every day--the petrochemical odors changed as you drove along--one odor on the main road to their street, then another odor at their home six blocks down.

Houston (and the surrounding area) is no different than any other city, despite having no zoning. Yup, Baytown, Pasadena (which is known locally as Stinkadena), Texas city and many other cities are near chemical plants and petroleum plants. If you wish to live there, you know the trade offs. I live over 45 miles away from Baytown. There are no refineries or chemical plants within 30 plus miles from where I live. However, y'all keep telling yourselves how nasty it is to live here and keep paying the high price of living where you do. We all make choices.

This is what happens when you Okeydoke people that you "Like the way they talk".

This had to happen, take your medicine Austin what doesn't kill you, makes you a Republican.

CaptainShuddup says

This is what happens when you Okeydoke people that you "Like the way they talk".

This had to happen, take your medicine Austin what doesn't kill you, makes you a Republican.

Quoted to show limited command of the English language.

In any case, wish property taxes worked like this in California, so people had to sell if property values got too high and so that the structural relationship between state and local government wasn't so messed up. Fuck you, Prop 13.

dodgerfanjohn says

Yet the dingbats around me vote in bond prop after bond prop, and keep voting in representatives who have no issue spending as much taxpayer money as possible. But propose prop 13 be rescinded

Count me in as one of the "dingbats".

Do you actually think that the commercial side of Prop 13 is fair? Family owns a property since 1970, pass it to their kids, and the kids sell it to someone who keeps the same assessment because their limited partnership does not have an owner with more than 50% interest. Yeah, that's fair.

You do realize that you and I pay higher taxes for that gigantic loophole for the rich, right?

Waitingtobuy says

Count me in as one of the "dingbats".

Do you actually think that the commercial side of Prop 13 is fair? Family owns a property since 1970, pass it to their kids, and the kids sell it to someone who keeps the same assessment because their limited partnership does not have an owner with more than 50% interest. Yeah, that's fair.

You do realize that you and I pay higher taxes for that gigantic loophole for the rich, right?

At a certain point, enough is enough. Gubmnt is too big. Cut spending and only increase taxes when necessary-like they did after the civil war. it was abolished-income tax needs to be slashed and the bums need to contribute or do the work the illegals do. You don't get handouts, as long as there is a job vacancy somewhere.

lostand confused says

At a certain point, enough is enough. Gubmnt is too big.

Doubt you understand the actual implications of Prop 13 -- you're just repeating the same old crap. In addition, I suspect you are part of the group that doesn't even pay federal income tax, but still complains.

Prop 13 explicitly does not constrain the size of government. If you think it does, please explain how it does and through what mechanism.

What it does is constrain property tax revenue for local governments, so local governments use other methods use other methods to raise revenue.

In addition, what it does is radically alter the structure between state government and local government, and gives the state government substantially more power over local issues, making things far less accountable to municipalities.

corntrollio says

Doubt you understand the actual implications of Prop 13 -- you're just
repeating the same old crap. In addition, I suspect you are part of the group
that doesn't even pay federal income tax, but still complains.

Doubt your one track mind can think beyond tax and spend. Cut pensions, cut pay, reduce welfare . There are lot of things that can be done, before you have to raise taxes-especially in a state with the highest state tax burden.

Oh please typical leftist rubbish. Just because one makes a decent living, works hard, has talent and luck and has managed to survive and thrive in this economy-one is looked down upon. Typical leftist garbage-give your money and shut up and never question as to where your money is going. the same leftists ideology is what rules the family court-never take responsibility.corntrollio says

Prop 13 explicitly does not constrain the size of government. If you think it
does, please explain how it does and through what mechanism.

What it does is constrain property tax revenue for local governments, so
local governments use other methods use other methods to raise revenue.

It can constrain gubmnt size, if dumb voters demanded it did and demand their gubmnt officers to act like public servants.
corntrollio says

In addition, what it does is radically alter the structure between state
government and local government, and gives the state government substantially
more power over local issues, making things far less accountable to
municipalities.

More garbage. The localities get 1% on houses. While some are locked at old rates, most get sold and bought and are taxed at the new rates. Again if spending were kept in check, we would not have these issues. Occasionally yes, it will exceed revenue-but they should be occasional periods.

lostand confused says

While some are locked at old rates, most get sold and bought and are taxed at the new rates.

It's done through other measures than Propositions as well. My mother bought the house I live in today in 1963 when it was 14 years old. In 1967, her property taxes were frozen when she turned 65. She lived 32 more years and the last full year she lived, 1996, her city taxes were $200 when she had a retirement income of $39,000. When I transferred ownership they immediately went to $1,500, which is not excessive, but I'll never have a retirement income as generous as hers.

lostand confused says

It can constrain gubmnt size

Then you misunderstand the nature of Prop 13. Prop 13 does absolutely nothing to constrain the size of state government, which is what you're really talking about. If we wanted to do that, there are better ways to do that than Prop 13, and other states have engaged in some of these methods. If you think Prop 13 constrains state government, please be very precise how.

lostand confused says

While some are locked at old rates, most get sold and bought and are taxed at the new rates.

Not true, Prop 13 specifically constrains the real estate market because of lower tax bases.

You seem quite poorly informed -- basically, you want to make baseless accusations and talk about political ideology, whereas I'm strictly speaking academically about the nature of Prop 13. Honestly, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground about Prop 13, and the reply above proves it -- it's basically "dey tuk arr jubs" level.

Again, I also doubt you pay any federal income taxes, but you like to bitch.

Ballot Propositions are not inherently evil as a tool of citizen governance.
In California however they have been increasingly hijacked by Big Money interests, who want to distort the economy in whatever ways benefit or please them, and to hell with the consequences. Proposition 13 is the most glaring example of this, it was backed by Commercial Real Estate interests, who pitched it to the public as being all about saving poor retired Mrs. Grundy from being evicted due to rising taxes. Dim thinking and misdirection allowed this Trojan Horse to come through the gates, and it's only gotten worse.

Vicente says

In California however they have been increasingly hijacked by Big Money interests, who want to distort the economy in whatever ways benefit or please them, and to hell with the consequences.

The irony is that the reason it's so easy to get a ballot proposition passed in California is that they were originally meant as an anti-big money measure. Back then, Southern Pacific dominated state government, so they came up with this ballot proposition idea as a way to counter. They wanted to have an extremely low threshold to make changes in order to prevent SP from taking over.

Now, all kinds of big money interests run the ballot proposition system because it's so easy to manipulate.

dodgerfanjohn says

But propose prop 13 be rescinded, or worse yet a rental "tax" surcharge, or worst of all eliminate the home mortgage deduction and you will hear people scream bloody hell.

Very true - the home mortgage deduction is cronyism at its best. Any tax reform plan that gets rid of this crap is superior.

lostand confused says

Doubt your one track mind can think beyond tax and spend. Cut pensions, cut pay, reduce welfare . There are lot of things that can be done, before you have to raise taxes-especially in a state with the highest state tax burden.

Yes, like raise property taxes through general obligation bonds? Or would you rather our schools fall down? And what about paying teachers, or do you want a 40:1 student teacher ratio? Are you OK with 9.5% sales tax and the same with income tax, because of Prop 13? How about the next time you are stuck on the freeway because there is no money to fix roads? You still in favor of cutting government when your house is burning down, or there is a criminal on the loose in your neighborhood?

lostand confused says

Oh please typical leftist rubbish. Just because one makes a decent living, works hard, has talent and luck and has managed to survive and thrive in this economy-one is looked down upon.

This is such BS I dont know where to start. I've done pretty well in business. I currently have two tech enterprises, yet I never forget that I didn't get here by myself, or that my parents and grandparents before me paid their taxes so I could go to public schools. I guarantee you someone in your life did the same.
Typical "I got mine, jack!" mentality.

Yes, government has issues. After 25 years in business, I can tell you so does private enterprise and corporations, but that's OK, because they are...private.

And I noticed you still didn't address what a crock Prop 13 is for commercial properties. That's because there is no excuse for it.

corntrollio says

Not true, Prop 13 specifically constrains the real estate market because of
lower tax bases.

You seem quite poorly informed -- basically, you want to make baseless
accusations and talk about political ideology, whereas I'm strictly speaking
academically about the nature of Prop 13. Honestly, you don't know your ass from
a hole in the ground about Prop 13, and the reply above proves it -- it's
basically "dey tuk arr jubs" level.

Again, I also doubt you pay any federal income taxes, but you like to
bitch.

Typical far leftie. I guess you must be one of those bums who leech of our taxes and think anybody who calls you out is either a toothless methhead or a billionare.

Why do local gubmnts get a free pass on spending?? Why should they not be forced to tighten belts. making it 2% or 3% is not going to help-plenty of places do that and are still broke. But hey tax and spend, tax and spend crowd cna never have enough of other people's money to spend. What a waste of human potential-to not have any honor, dignity and self respect.

Waitingtobuy says

Yes, like raise property taxes through general obligation bonds? Or would you
rather our schools fall down? And what about paying teachers, or do you want a
40:1 student teacher ratio? Are you OK with 9.5% sales tax and the same with
income tax, because of Prop 13? How about the next time you are stuck on the
freeway because there is no money to fix roads? You still in favor of cutting
government when your house is burning down, or there is a criminal on the loose
in your neighborhood?

That has nothing to do with prop 13. Several NE states have extremely high property taxes and then income tax and state taxes on top of that . They ain't doing all that well.Where is the money going to???

CA has the highest state tax and the highest gas taxes on the nation and yet the crappiest roads I have driven in. I live in a snow state and still have better roads.Waitingtobuy says

I currently have two tech enterprises, yet I never forget that I didn't get
here by myself, or that my parents and grandparents before me paid their taxes
so I could go to public schools. I guarantee you someone in your life did the
same.
Typical "I got mine, jack!" mentality.

Typical lefties our community built it.That time is different than now. You built things for the common good-not provide an income for welfare hordes. If you are an orphan with one leg-fine. But you can't be fit and say you wnat sec 8 housing in San francisco, welfare etc etc. etc. This is a different day and time.

There is nothing wrong in having a debate on how taxes are spent. The far left is always about crushing debate by shaming. Hey you are taking more than a 3rd of my paycheck and I want to know how you are spending it-oh what a cruel meanie. No wonder this country is in such a mess. No responsibility, no shame, just live off the dole and nobody dare question you.

lostand confused says

Typical far leftie. I guess you must be one of those bums who leech of our taxes and think anybody who calls you out is either a toothless methhead or a billionare.

By your own admission, you don't live in California. You're like that assless chaps guy who used to post on SFGate.com, despite not living in the Bay Area:

lostand confused says

CA has the highest state tax and the highest gas taxes on the nation and yet the crappiest roads I have driven in. I live in a snow state and still have better roads.

That explains one of the many reasons why you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground about Prop 13 and are calling me a "leftie" for no particular reason. Nothing I have said is "leftie" or "commie" or anything else -- again, this is an academic discussion about the results of Prop 13 and how it alters the structure between state and local government. You are unable to explain how Prop 13 constrains state government, because it doesn't. Moreover, you don't appear to understand taxation very well in the first place.

Again, there are better and smarter ways to constrain the size of government, and there are better and smarter ways to keep grandma in her house (although I think that's stupid, personally). From your responses, I doubt you're able to critically think about these issues. None of these require the broad strokes of Prop 13.