patrick.net

Credit scores are meaningless.

Signed a guy who walked away from all debt in 2002, and bought a house in 2010 and now has a 795 credit score.
Your credit score is nothing that 7 years wont fix. No matter how bad it is.
And truth be told, that 7 years can be God sent. You save money, learn to appreciate paying cash, learn that credit is only important for the banks that wants to own your soul. 7 years of watching bills shrink and savings grow. Not a bad deal at all if you ask me. And before any of you judge me.
I was well with my legal right to wait 7 years for all of the bullshit to cycle off my credit. Just as they were in their right to sell my debt to Sherman Acquisitions who hires rude obnoxious people to hound you relentlessly and want 500x what you originally owed.
The game IS rigged, but you don't have to play. That always amazes me, how people don't realize that. They watch these bastards rob the treasuries blind, but snap to when they are sent the bill.

Lauren Dollard, a 26-year-old assistant at a nonprofit in Houston, said her low credit score had helped to stall her romantic plans. Her boyfriend is wary of marrying her until she can significantly pay down the more than $150,000 she owes in student loans and bolster her credit score, she said.

I wouldn't marry someone with 150K in student debt.

That's a really shitty way of going about finding your partner in life. My gut tells me if I found the one and they ended up having a ton of student loans, I'd have to make due, but luckily I found someone with no debt instead.

zzyzzx says

Lauren Dollard, a 26-year-old assistant at a nonprofit in Houston, said her low credit score had helped to stall her romantic plans. Her boyfriend is wary of marrying her until she can significantly pay down the more than $150,000 she owes in student loans and bolster her credit score, she said.

I wouldn't marry someone with 150K in student debt.

What a terrible outlook! I will take a $150k in school loans and someone who invested in themselves and their education over someone who didn't with no school loans. The long run looks brighter with the first option IMHO

Eh that isn't always true either. 150k in student loans certainly does not equate to a high paying job or any job at all even.

BayArea says

Her musings were suddenly interrupted when her date asked a decidedly unromantic question: “What’s your credit score?”

Yep, right up there with "what were the results of your last AIDS test" or "Did you murder your last boyfriend?"

The guy was looking for an out. He found it.

BayArea says

zzyzzx says

Lauren Dollard, a 26-year-old assistant at a nonprofit in Houston, said her low credit score had helped to stall her romantic plans. Her boyfriend is wary of marrying her until she can significantly pay down the more than $150,000 she owes in student loans and bolster her credit score, she said.

I wouldn't marry someone with 150K in student debt.

What a terrible outlook! I will take a $150k in school loans and someone who invested in themselves and their education over someone who didn't with no school loans. The long run looks brighter with the first option IMHO

How about if the degree was from a non-accredited institution, not accepted by any employer and even under 100% best case conditions that person would never come close to paying off that debt without a hefty infusion of YOUR cash?

Even better the person's only ambition in life was to sit on the couch watching Gilligan's Island marathons and eating ice cream by the bucket?

woppa says

Eh that isn't always true either. 150k in student loans certainly does not equate to a high paying job or any job at all even.

Nope! Most people I know at high paying jobs have at most a bachelors.

woppa says

That's a really shitty way of going about finding your partner in life.

Definitely not since you are on the hook for the money after marrying them. But what is really shitty advice is telling somebody $150K in debt doesn't matter and I guess they'd 'just come up with it'.

$150K in school debt and poor credit don't necessarily correlate. Let's keep those separate.

woppa says

150k in student loans certainly does not equate to a high paying job or any job at all even

Of course there are no guarantees, but the degree allows you to take well aimed shots on goal on getting that "high" paying job. Sure there are ways to make good money with no degree, but you aren't going to get the classic/stable/high-paying medical, law, business, or technology jobs without the degree. There are entrepreneurial exceptions to the rule, but they are rare.

New Renter says

The guy was looking for an out. He found it.

I certainly agree. People who want out of a relationship (especially a fresh one), can be very creative with the reasons they present. But at the same time, I'd be a little weary of a girl with terrible credit myself. Who can argue that it doesn't spur up a lot of questions about the person you are getting involved with?

New Renter says

How about if the degree was from a non-accredited institution, not accepted by any employer and even under 100% best case conditions that person would never come close to paying off that debt without a hefty infusion of YOUR cash?

Even better the person's only ambition in life was to sit on the couch watching Gilligan's Island marathons and eating ice cream by the bucket?

Fair enough, but at the same time where are we going by taking the worst case possible. People with ambitions to sit on the couch and eat ice cream typically aren't people who go out and get high priced degrees. Still not sure where you are going with that. If we approached everything like that nobody would ever get married or leave their house without tin-foil hats.

New Renter says

Nope! Most people I know at high paying jobs have at most a bachelors.

There is some amount of truth to this... I work in Telecommunications under an executive team that has always had an unfavorable outlook on PHDs. We've found that they often are more research/advancement focused than profit/loss focused, which of course is a problem.

The Professor says

I met my wife through Craigslist.

Please tell us more!

Interesting and thanks for sharing.

It's not something I have any experience with, but online dating does seem like a good way to filter some important characteristics quickly, assuming people are being honest of course. How long have you been married?

The Professor says

Don't misuse time...

Very true, and applies to any relationship. The importance of this point didn't completely sink in for me until I turned 30 or so.

BayArea says

What a terrible outlook! I will take a $150k in school loans and someone who
invested in themselves and their education over someone who didn't with no
school loans. The long run looks brighter with the first option IMHO

It depends. She could quit working right after marraige and beome a shopoholic . Now you have to feed her shopping habit and pay off her school debt too-it happened to one of my friends. The lady refused to go to work -even though she worked before and just spend her time enjoying life on his dime. Unfortunately that is perfectly acceptable for a woman. If you are married long enough-you have to keep her in the lifestyle she is used to.

lostand confused says

It depends. She could quit working right after marraige and beome a shopoholic . Now you have to feed her shopping habit and pay off her school debt too-it happened to one of my friends. The lady refused to go to work -even though she worked before and just spend her time enjoying life on his dime. Unfortunately that is perfectly acceptable for a woman. If you are married long enough-you have to keep her in the lifestyle she is used to.

turtledove says

At 28, I married a guy I knew for 12 years. He had graduated from law school
a few years before we were married, and I was just finishing up my MBA. We had
the best plans. We were going to work for a few years... make lots of money,
yada, yada, yada.

One month after we were married, he says to me, "I don't like being a lawyer.
I want to take some time off to figure out what it is I want to do."

Three years later, he was still sitting on the couch internet surfing,
playing video games, going to gambling sites, day trading....

Yeah... he was quite a prize! Women get bait and switched, too.

Well true. I think marraige laws need to be reformed to reflect current realities. No 1 is that 50% end in divorce and so quit looking at it from that angle of soulmate etc.

Muslims in several coutnries actually negotiate a divorce price when marrying off their daughters. Even though the divorce rates are much lower, they already negotiate the amont to be given upon divorce. Many arranged marraiges in countries like India used to be far more practical. You look at both families, try and find one evenly matched and see the personalities and then arrange.

I think in this country, it is far more idealistic-excluding the very rich, nobody seems to look at the practical aspects of it before marraige. Perhaps if we were forced to decide how much would be given in alimony and child support and other such practical matters before marraige, then things won't be this bad?

My fiancee has a fierce indepenant streak. Her parents are rather wealthy, but she likes to be independant and not live off them. Which I like.

lostand confused says

Perhaps if we were forced to decide how much would be given in alimony and child support and other such practical matters before marraige, then things won't be this bad?

If that ain't the truth!

turtledove says

Women get bait and switched, too.

100% true.... I don't think this was his plan but there are some fraction of men out there who only work because they have to. So... What happened in the end?

Since we are moving away from traditional roles (which has it's positives and negatives), he didn't feel the sense of urgency to get off his ass and be the bread winner since you were obviously bringing in enough dough to keep the ship sailing. Without knowing what his struggles were/are, I will say that most guys' pride would not allow their woman to be working more than they do... I certainly wouldn't.

I have been in a situation where I was forced to take a job for a short period of time that I was over-qualified for. But that's something I felt I had to do.

BayArea says

100% true.... I don't think this was his plan but there are some fraction of men out there who only work because they have to. So... What happened in the end?

He was incredibly spoiled by his parents and just never grew up. I remember the Thanksgiving before we split... his parents were over at the house. We were talking about putting the Christmas lights up. When they heard that I wanted their little boy to get up on a ladder and put up the lights his father said to me, "Do you want him to get killed?" I was like, WTH? It was a perfectly average house (no insane roof, or anything like that). Their son was a grown man, for goodness sake!

I ended up going out there and hanging the lights myself... which was precisely my problem. I enabled him... his parents enabled him.

When he graduated from college, he had pretty bad grades. His parents paid for him to go to law school even though he could only get into a low-ranking, high-cost law school. I, on the other hand, sent myself to both college and graduate school. I graduated with honors and was admitted into a top MBA program. I worked from when I was 16. He knew that about me, and I have no doubt that's what he liked best about me. I was the mommy he could fool around with!

I was patient with him for a pretty long time. I didn't want him to be unhappy with his work. No one should have to do something they hate, right? But after three years and he still hadn't found anything he liked to do better than sitting around, I had had enough. (He wouldn't even do domestic things!)

We divorced after three years. No kids were involved.

There's nothing wrong with roles. It makes perfect sense to divide labor whether it's outside the home or inside the home. And it's up to each couple how they want to do that.

I just think that when two people agree to a plan, each person has a responsibility to stick to that plan. If something changes and plan adjustments have to be made... that's okay (stuff happens) but the couple should make the new plan together. One person shouldn't misprepresent him/herself just to catch a person and then manipulate them until they get the situation they secretly wanted from the very beginning. If he wanted to be a Real Housewife, he should have made that clear and given me the choice.

I've noticed a number of young single Mothers in the San Antonio, Texas area, trying to hook up with the GI's in town. (Lackland AFB, Randolph AFB, Fort Sam Houston). I'm sure the reason being the are benefits married troops receive.

It's easy enough to just not get married!

turtledove says

He was incredibly spoiled by his parents and just never grew up.

And you married him anyway???

BayArea says

I will take a $150k in school loans and someone who invested in themselves and their education over someone who didn't with no school loans.

Some of us actually worked our way through college TWICE without incurring any debt. Someone who ended up in that much debt just wasted a bunch of money and is too fiscally irresponsible to date.

zzyzzx says

turtledove says

He was incredibly spoiled by his parents and just never grew up.

And you married him anyway???

I think the bleach I used to put in my hair in the 80s did something to my brain.

Turtledove, thank you for sharing.

How long ago did you guys split and did you ever remarry?

Ten years ago. Yes, if you can believe it, I remarried about 8 months after my divorce was final. Been married nine years, and we have two amazing children. Wouldn't change a thing.

BayArea says

New Renter says

How about if the degree was from a non-accredited institution, not accepted by any employer and even under 100% best case conditions that person would never come close to paying off that debt without a hefty infusion of YOUR cash?

Even better the person's only ambition in life was to sit on the couch watching Gilligan's Island marathons and eating ice cream by the bucket?

Fair enough, but at the same time where are we going by taking the worst case possible. People with ambitions to sit on the couch and eat ice cream typically aren't people who go out and get high priced degrees. Still not sure where you are going with that. If we approached everything like that nobody would ever get married or leave their house without tin-foil hats.

turtledove says

At 28, I married a guy I knew for 12 years. He had graduated from law school a few years before we were married, and I was just finishing up my MBA. We had the best plans. We were going to work for a few years... make lots of money, yada, yada, yada.

One month after we were married, he says to me, "I don't like being a lawyer. I want to take some time off to figure out what it is I want to do."

Three years later, he was still sitting on the couch internet surfing, playing video games, going to gambling sites, day trading....

Yeah... he was quite a prize! Women get bait and switched, too.

Yep, worst case scenarios DO happen. Sorry it happened to you.

lostand confused says

My fiancee has a fierce indepenant streak. Her parents are rather wealthy, but she likes to be independant and not live off them. Which I like.

Independent girls from rich families tend to be some of the best.

Avoid people with self-limiting mindsets at all cost.

I would not date anyone who could not laugh at my jokes.

Finance is somewhat important though. It has more to say about one's philosophy and value system. It is fine to be in debt, but having a huge student loan on a Women's Studies degree would be a big red flag.

I would not date a vegetarian.

here are ppl who really monitor their credit score (and they know the article is BS)

http://www.flyertalk.com/credit-card-programs/1420946-nyt-perfect-10-never-mind-ask-her-her-credit-score.html

New Renter says

Even better the person's only ambition in life was to sit on the couch watching Gilligan's Island marathons and eating ice cream by the bucket?

If only I could be paid for this... and if you could substitute "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" for Gilligan's Island... I'd be in fucking heaven!!!

turtledove says

Yeah... he was quite a prize! Women get bait and switched, too.

Tell me about it... I married a professional and together we bought a house - his mother gifted us $5,000 for the down payment and I came up with the rest out of my savings of $6,000. About six years later, we were driving and he told me not to get mad (always a bad sign). He said that he was quitting his job the next day.

We discussed that he had two children for which he was paying support, as well as the bills we had for our house. I also reminded him that we had very little savings. My suggestion was that he should save up, pay off some bills, and plan for such a move. So, for the next year, we sacrificed and saved up quite a chunk while paying off bills.

A year later, he quit his job with no notice, cashed out our savings account and left me. I had no idea where he was. I brought in about 30% of the income to the household; it was difficult to make ends meet but I did by taking a second job and watching every penny, as well as boarding other people's horses. I remained in the house, paying all of the bills.

Another year later, he returned (broke) from out of town and filed for divorce. He asked for the house and all of our common possessions. He felt that he deserved everything, and yelled at the judge when he ended up owing me money in addition to my getting the house.

This wasn't the man that I thought that I married - he truly "changed" the day we got married. If I ever marry again, I will be more cautious and will protect myself financially to (hopefully) ensure that I never again have to choose between eating or paying a bill.

Glad to hear a female perspective on this. You guys make it sound like the women are always the irresponsible ones.

MsBennet says

Glad to hear a female perspective on this. You guys make it sound like the women are always the irresponsible ones.

I think this stems from the fact that it is mostly the woman's initiative (pressure) to get married, and unfortunately also (I think close to 2/3) to get divorced. Of course there are bad apples on both sides as always, but if you can lay off the need to be married the possibilities are endless.

Credit score smedit scores. Finances are down the list of shit that matters to me when mating. But if you're going to get to the meat and potatos of it, I'm much more concerned with incomes relative to desired lifestyle. My old lady likes having the big house and the walk in closet full of clothes and heels and what not. Me, I'm. A simple simon utilitarian motherfucker. So I take no issue in her making twice as much income as me

errc says

I'm much more concerned with incomes relative to desired lifestyle.

I think that the ratio of income/expenditures is directly implied when people think about asking their date for the credit score. The credit score is pretty much a gauge of people's ability to live within their means.

justme says

The credit score is pretty much a gauge of people's ability to live within their means.

Not if the person in question gets help from his/her parents.

I think a 30-minute chat would reveal a lot.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Does *that* happen in Heaven? Have you talked with St Peter about this?

I prefer to believe that, if there is a heaven, I'll get laid there.

I bet it has orgies too.

.elliemae says

I prefer to believe that, if there is a heaven, I'll get laid there.

Peter P says

I bet it has orgies too.

Well, we obviously all look beautiful in Heaven because many people who claim to have died and come back have described "going toward the light." I'm sure that there wouldn't be a light unless we all look awesome!

If I had realized how much sex I'd get as an adult, I would have been a slut in high school. Sex in the afterlife is a happy thought.