patrick.net

MLS systems simply do not let anyone else get a list of everything that is for sale right now.

I've been told that Redfin and sites like them are not allowed by MLS rules to display foreclosures on the same page as "retail" full-price listings, for example, and it seems borne out by my experience. Seeing the cheap foreclosures would undermine what the realtor is telling them about how "strong" the market is.

The MLS is just a sales tool designed to extract the maximum possible amount of money from naive young buyers, to cripple them with debt for the profit and amusement of realtors. Note that there is not just one unified MLS, but many local MLS systems with incompatible data formats. The only thing that unifies them is the desire to defraud buyers by hiding or falsifying critical information.

For example, a house that don't sell can be erased from the MLS and relisted with no mention of the previous failure. The naive buyer can then be shown the "new" listing on a "private" MLS screen as a "favor" from the realtor, but it's all a sham to build trust which can then be exploited by the realtor.

A similar problem is lies about multiple bids. Since all bids are secret and there is no oversight, realtors can easily lie with impunity about fake competing bids to pressure you into bidding too much. Realtors have the means, motive, and opportunity to defraud buyers about multiple bids and this is powerful evidence against them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means,_motive,_and_opportunity

Note that sellers are also defrauded by realtors when realtors hide bids which, say, do not give their own agency both sides of a commission.

The solution is obvious and trivial to implement:

1. All offers to sell should be published in a standard text format for all to see and scrape.
2. All bids should be verified by a bank and published in the same way.
3. The seller must be obligated to accept his asking price.

I've been told that Redfin and sites like them are not allowed by MLS rules to display foreclosures on the same page as "retail" full-price listings, for example, and it seems borne out by my experience. Seeing the cheap foreclosures would undermine what the realtor is telling them about how "strong" the market is.

Ah ha. So that explains where this listing comes from:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sherman-Oaks/14850-Hesby-St-91403/unit-102/home/4811261

I get daily email updates and I do not recall this one at all. Yes, like most, it's been delisted and listed for a couple/few years. Maybe it was over $300,000. lol

David9 says

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sherman-Oaks/14850-Hesby-St-91403/unit-102/home/4811261

$463/month HOA for a 606 sq.ft shack? Who would want to stay there? I'll not even stay there for free. :)

Pretty much what Patrick said. MLS can only be abolished when Realtors are completely removed from America.

The solution is obvious and trivial to implement:

All offers to sell should be published in a standard text format for all to see and scrape.
All bids should be verified by a bank and published in the same way.
The seller must be obligated to accept his asking price

Clearly there is a new business model opportunity here, Saas + Social Network, subscription revenue, embedding to Redfin/Zillow...etc etc etc.

bubblesitter says

$463/month HOA for a 606 sq.ft shack? Who would want to stay there? I'll not even stay there for free. :)

LOL, thank you BubbleSitter. At that price and HOA, agree.

Like I have been saying EVERY property released to the retail market has something wrong with it and these follow patterns:

1.) High HOA
2.) Damage
3.) Gaudy, awful paint colors
4.) Undesirable location within condo complex
a.) Inside unit looking at other peoples windows
b.) 1st or second floor units
5.) Just plain dull and unattractive
6.) 1 bathroom whether it is a house or condo

David9 says

bubblesitter says

$463/month HOA for a 606 sq.ft shack? Who would want to stay there? I'll not even stay there for free. :)

LOL, thank you BubbleSitter. At that price and HOA, agree.

Like I have been saying EVERY property released to the retail market has something wrong with it and these follow patterns:

Iv'e seen some really amazing properties for decent prices, then I go to google maps and notice a huge high tension power line. It has happened so often, I dread looking at google maps.

David9 says

I've been told that Redfin and sites like them are not allowed by MLS rules to display foreclosures on the same page as "retail" full-price listings, for example, and it seems borne out by my experience. Seeing the cheap foreclosures would undermine what the realtor is telling them about how "strong" the market is.

Ah ha. So that explains where this listing comes from:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Sherman-Oaks/14850-Hesby-St-91403/unit-102/home/4811261

I get daily email updates and I do not recall this one at all. Yes, like most, it's been delisted and listed for a couple/few years. Maybe it was over $300,000. lol

Wow. Thats BARELY a bit over break even as far as rental parity goes. I'd imagine this place goes at $900-1150/mo. Actually looking at the craigslist ads, it seems like theres a plethora of rentals in the area so the listed amounts may be overly optomistic(so much for the LIE that rents are rising...this is a VERY desireable part of SFV). Even at the foreclosure auction price of $117K, I'm not sure it makes sense. 1 month of vacancy/year puts you in the negative. Any amount of destruction to the property puts that year at a loss. No wonder the people who bought it at auction are attempting to flip rather than rent it out.

All the MLS data should be public. All the NAR data should be public. It makes no sense, except to deceive and distort, making huge profits in the process. If you want an open market then make it all public and the best site or user of the data wins. Can you just imagine what a beautiful system the transparency would create! I would probably even like talking to real estate agent or whatever they will eventually be called. I'd love to have a conversation without an asymmetry of information. The online car sites has done that for me. I used to hate going to a dealer, now it is a pleasure because I am able to see everything they have. The list costs, the freight, taxes, the rebates, etc. No bull anymore, the minute they try I just make a joke of it and continue with the costs/price I know already. We need the house market to have that level of transparency. I actually would probably be okay to buy again now if it did. If the claims of the realtors were able to be proven. If there was real weight to justify why a Menlo Park house costs 1.2m, aside from just corrupt organization pumping it up to that value for their own interests.

Enough said.

Well said RentingForHalfTheCost!

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says

Disband the NAR!
Throw the Realtor®s from the helicopter!
GPL the MLS!

Send the Sex Workers back to their Country of Origin! Let them suck dickie for the 5 dahlar there.

dodgerfanjohn says

Wow. Thats BARELY a bit over break even as far as rental parity goes. I'd imagine this place goes at $900-1150/mo

Good guess!

My own rental comp service has the median 1BR apt around there renting for $1,025:

http://patrick.net/housing/rental_comps.php?uaddr=14850+HESBY+St+%232+Sherman+Oaks%2C+CA+91403+&br=1&t=m

All you have to do to get full MLS access is pay thier fee and you can see it all - even though they will delete the previous list prices from the internet sites the MLS software will show it.

Once you have full MLS access and then also foreclosureradar or similar site you have basically all the information. And its not expensive to get this info. Maybe 1200 a year in MLS fees and $300 to get a broker license - if you have a 4 year college degree you dont have to work as a slave to a broker you just get broker license.

I would like an open MLS but in reality the laws are NOT going to change. The law states a listing and an offer are PRIVATE so you have no right to see those. Just like you have no right to know what I paid for my car last year or how much I paid for a sandwich.

What really has distorted the RE market isnt the MLS but ez money loans from the government. If there were zero government guarantees in lending the mortgage rates would be 10% with 30% downpayment (hard money rates). Then we wouldnt be here talking about buying a 1m house with a gigantic loan from the feds on a daily basis.

Anyway if you are serious about buying a home pay the $1500 and get a license the commissions on one home in cali are like what 30K??!?! Its totally reasonable to get a license to do one deal.

PockyClipsNow says

I would like an open MLS but in reality the laws are NOT going to change. The law states a listing and an offer are PRIVATE so you have no right to see those. Just like you have no right to know what I paid for my car last year or how much I paid for a sandwich.

Pocky, thanks for the reply. Getting a lisc has certainly crossed my mind!

One additional note... You mention that I have no right to know what you paid for your car or how much you paid for your sandwich. But the problem is I know how much everyone paid for their house. I know how much my boss paid, I know how much my best friend paid, I know how much my wife's parents paid for their house. None of these individuals ever told me though. I would know how much you paid for your house too if I knew where you lived. Why is it that your sandwich transaction has more privacy than your home transaction?

And one more thing... If I wanted to get mls listings for $1200/yr, where should I look?

To join the mls just contact them. I think oar.org is your local starting point. I know you normally cant join unless you are a broker, an agent under a broker, somehow working for a broker or you are an appraiser or something like that.

It all boils down to jumping through paperwork and hoops to get a username/password to the mls system.

If all you want is mls listings they are on realtor.com and every other real estate site like redfin.com - or an agent can use the mls software to spam all new listings daily in that mls - just email a random agent and ask them to do this they will do it free. Its not as valuable having mls access as it used to be before the internet. The best deals are pocket listings and it wont help you get those only footwork will get them.