Comments 1 - 21 of 21        Search these comments

1   zzyzzx   2012 Apr 3, 4:26am  

Gotta love this strategy:

Gary Larson has a $5,000 deductible insurance plan, but has found that his medical bills are cheaper if he claims he's uninsured and pays cash. Using that strategy, an MRI scan of his shoulder cost him $350. His brother-in-law went to a nearby clinic for an MRI scan of his shoulder, was billed $13,000, and had to come up with $2,500.

Schwarzman has an insurance plan with a high deductible ($7,000). Like Gary Larson (the guy at the top of this column), Schwarzman also paid about $350 for a scan on himself that would have cost much more if he went with his insurance company's negotiated rate. A couple of years ago, his daughter needed an ultrasound for a possible gallstone. If he'd gone through his insurance company, he would have been charged $3,200, with insurance paying $1,500, leaving him a $1,700 bill. He chose instead to leave insurance out of the equation and pay cash instead. The price was $250.

2   Fightthefungus   2012 Apr 3, 6:30am  

Two questions to stop those who think the individual mandate is unconstitutional in their tracks(remember this was a republican idea because it requires personal responsibiliy

1. Do you have insurance?(all those opposed do)

2. If someone who can pay chooses not to, requiring you to foot the bill with higher premiums, should they be treated at the ER or turned away?

However, they answer, they are either heartless or clueless.

3   Tenpoundbass   2012 Apr 3, 6:36am  

zzyzzx says

Gary Larson has a $5,000 deductible insurance plan, but has found that his medical bills are cheaper if he claims he's uninsured and pays cash. Using that strategy, an MRI scan of his shoulder cost him $350. His brother-in-law went to a nearby clinic for an MRI scan of his shoulder, was billed $13,000, and had to come up with $2,500.

That's what I keep trying to tell you Lady!

Everyone just takes the spin that costs are high, and you can't survive with out insurance in this country. It's a goddamn fuck job over the Oval office desk is what it is. My family gets along just fine paying doctor bills as we go along. One month, I bought a pair of glasses and got an eye exam, my wife got a pap-smear, and two daughters went to a general practitioner for a check up. The grand total that month was way below the $1400 a month premium my company calls a "BENEFIT" that I refuse to pay for.

A laugh at all you suckers every day.

4   Nobody   2012 Apr 3, 7:49am  

Yeah, I took my son to the emergency room for his earache. We waited for a couple of hours before seen by a doctor for 5 minutes. It turned out he was just lying to get out of violin practice. The cost to me was $100. And they charged my insurance company $1000. Go figure. It took 5 minutes for my son to fess up. It took less than one minute to figure there is no ear infection.

I normally pay 25 cents every time he plays a music on piano or violin. It's been about 5 days. He still has about 200 musics to go at this stage. The payback is a b*t*h.

5   Dan8267   2012 Apr 3, 12:06pm  

Hospitals need to be sued for fraudulent billing. That's the only thing that's going to stop this short of a nationalization of the health care industry with standardize pricing.

6   Tenpoundbass   2012 Apr 4, 12:24am  

Dan8267 says

nationalization of the health care industry with standardize pricing.

Nope I prefer a Nation Health care system ran from the School to the Hostpital.

I say we start by training the Troops that are returning back from Iraq and Afghanistan to be Doctors, since they can't find a job and have no useful Civilian skills anyway. But that's way to progressive for this country. Why we would need a party in Washington that actually gives a Rats Ass about anyone but them selves.

7   zzyzzx   2012 Apr 4, 1:09am  

Fightthefungus says

2. If someone who can pay chooses not to, requiring you to foot the bill with higher premiums, should they be treated at the ER or turned away?

They should be turned away.

8   Tenpoundbass   2012 Apr 4, 4:12am  

You know who was good at running affordable health care?

Religious organizations.

Baptists, Islams, Christians, Shriners ect...

Just sayin' capitalism and healthcare doesn't mix, neither does federal mandated company patronage. Reason 101 Liberals have lost their soul.

9   Dan8267   2012 Apr 4, 4:18am  

Capitalism doesn't run the Highway Transportation System. Why should it run health care?

10   pedro3000   2012 Apr 4, 4:24am  

I am an ER doctor.

I was having palpitations once while on a shift, so my colleague made me check in so we could see what was up. Of course my colleague didn't charge me, but our charge is a pittance compared to the hospitals facility charge.

My bill was $7800 for the visit for an EKG, ED visit (hospital charge) and labs. With my $5000 deductible not met, I owed $5K. Total joke. We tell our patients that it costs them $2500 the minute they walk in the door before any labs, doctor, xray, ct, us, etc.

As to uninsured patients or those who say they are uninsured and think they are going to get "free" care in the ED, hospitals and doctors are starting to fight back and here is how:

In the Emergency Department, we are obligated to determine if someone has an "Emergency Medical Condition" under EMTALA law. If they do, we must treat and stabilize without regards to ability to pay. However, affter treating, we will give you the hefty bill and you will have to deal with it. It might be $10,000 or it might be $100,000. We technically aren't even allowed to ask anything about your insurance or ability to pay until the Emergency has been stabilized, or we risk incurring the wrath of the Feds under EMTALA. In practice insurance discussion occurs after your have seen a doctor or PA to avoid the impression that we are treating based on financial status.

Depending on where you get your numbers anywhere from 60-95% of all comers to the ED do not have an emergency medical condition.

You are going to start finding at the ED that it will no longer be a free for all for anyone who refuses to pay.

A doctor (or more likely physicians assistant or Nurse practitioner) will be sitting in triage and performing screening/EMTALA examinations. If you don't have a true emergency (i.e. one of the 60-95% who go to the ED) you will be immediately asked for your proof of payment or copay up front.

If you can not provide this, you will not receive any treatment and you will be referred to a local clinic where you can work out payment with them and you will be shown the door.

11   zzyzzx   2012 Apr 4, 5:37am  

pedro3000 says

Depending on where you get your numbers anywhere from 60-95% of all comers to the ED do not have an emergency medical condition.

You know when I had an infection I was told more then once by those clinics to to go an emergency room. I didn't. I just went to a different clinic that actually prescribed me antibiotics that worked. I got the impression that they were more worried about liability than anything else, or just didn't know what they were doing.

12   zzyzzx   2012 Apr 4, 5:38am  

pedro3000 says

A doctor (or more likely physicians assistant or Nurse practitioner) will be sitting in triage and performing screening/EMTALA examinations. If you don't have a true emergency (i.e. one of the 60-95% who go to the ED) you will be immediately asked for your proof of payment or copay up front.

Why aren't they doing this already?

13   pedro3000   2012 Apr 4, 8:52am  

We do, but we don't refuse to treat if they don't have any ability to pay. i treat them for free. That is how it works for now, but i suspect that will change.

14   pedro3000   2012 Apr 4, 8:53am  

zzyzzx says

pedro3000 says

Depending on where you get your numbers anywhere from 60-95% of all comers to the ED do not have an emergency medical condition.

You know when I had an infection I was told more then once by those clinics to to go an emergency room. I didn't. I just went to a different clinic that actually prescribed me antibiotics that worked. I got th impression that they were more worried about liability than anything else, or just didn't know what they were doing.

If the homeowner isn't insulted by your offer...you didn't bid low enough!!!

Probably some of both...also more common Friday afternoons when they don't feel like seeing any more patients in the clinic.

15   oliverks1   2012 Apr 4, 3:18pm  

CaptainShuddup says

Just sayin' capitalism and healthcare doesn't mix, neither does federal mandated company patronage. Reason 101 Liberals have lost their soul.

There are two problems with health insurance (note this is not health care but insurance). The first is the free rider problem. Why get health coverage while you are healthy?

Which leads the second problem. Health care costs are not statistical independent. Once a major crises occurs, it is likely to have significant follow on costs. Insurance companies will rationally try to exclude risky people once the risk has been exposed. This is just free market economics, and even under the current regulated system, insurance companies often manage to.

If health care was elective, this would not be an issue, but the truth of the mater is over 90% of the population will need health care at some point in their life. Once you need it, you are often in no position to negotiate for it.

What we have is a classic free market failure. Market failures are exactly what governments are supposed to solve. Hence, while Obamacare sucks wind, it is a step in the correct direction. It is inconceivable that religious organizations can pick up the tab, as healthcare has grown so expensive.

100 years from now the health care crises might be over; we could all be living long healthy lives for a few dollars a year (in real terms). But right now, it is a crisis, and coverage is one of many problems that needs to be solved to make the most of the human capital we have available.

16   curious2   2012 Apr 8, 4:43pm  

[...]

17   Bellingham Bill   2012 Apr 8, 6:14pm  

curious2 says

but it happens to be out of network, your ObamaCare policy may cover only around 40% of the charges.

LOL, that's not how insurance handles emergency care.

Care to try again with some more believable bullshit?

18   curious2   2012 Apr 9, 5:27pm  

Troy delurking says

Care to try again with some more believable [deleted]?

Try reading an insurance policy. The practice is called "balance billing." You can read more about it here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122834911902477643.html

It happens already, the difference is ObamaCare makes the system mandatory. In emergencies, ObamaCare requires insurers to pay at least as much as Medicare would pay, but that is by law the lowest of all payers. Retail charges for out-of-network emergencies are commonly triple, sometimes more.

19   Bellingham Bill   2012 Apr 12, 6:28am  

Emergency care is completely covered on my BlueShield PPO plan regardless of 'network'.

Your above example about "ObamaCare":

"If you are hit by a truck and taken to the nearest hospital, but it happens to be out of network"

is still bullshit since ObamaCare is just subsidized private insurance for all.

Please retract the above bullshit slagging on ObamaCare. Thanks.

Nothing really changes about the status quo other than low-income families get greatly subsidized health care insurance, and everyone has to get insurance or pay a nominal tax penalty (1% of income)

20   curious2   2013 Sep 12, 6:37pm  

Bellingham Bill says

Please retract the above....

Please retract your bs shilling for Obamacare, which "does not prohibit balance billing by out-of-network providers." Note the difference between the amount Medicare and Obamacare pays and the amount the provider charges: these are not the same, and the customer can be liable for the difference. You can read more about it in the regulations but keep in mind those are subject to change; the actual statute that you shill for specifies the Medicare amount, which by law is the lowest of all payors. Obamacare limits certain terms of art (coinsurance, deductibles, etc.) before coverage begins, but its statutory coverage ends where Medicare would end, i.e. if the insurer pays what Medicare would pay (commonly 30%) then they've complied with the statute and depending on your state you may be stuck with the remainder, which can be most of the bill. Certain states have tried to address this problem, but Obamacare does not. My comment was accurate, and remains so. I can understand your misplaced enthusiasm, it is widely shared, even among regulators: "The Departments concluded that even though PPACA does not prohibit balance billing, they believe it defeats the purposes of the PPACA protections to permit such an arrangement to exist." HHS and IRS thus required a sometimes higher payment than the statute does, and it remains to be seen whether the regulatory requirement (contrary to the statute) will stand. They acknowledged that reading the statute as written would defeat what they (and apparently you) assumed to be the purpose of the statute, but the authors of the statute wrote it to say what it said, for their own purpose, which was to maximize revenue for their clients. "Thanks."

Bellingham Bill says

Emergency care is completely covered on my BlueShield PPO plan regardless of 'network'.

Please provide a copy of the plan. I suspect that you have probably misread it, believing what you wanted to believe, which would explain your enthusiasm for Obamacare too. I would have replied sooner to your comment but didn't see it at the time. Since then, surveys have tended to corroborate my earlier prediction on the legislation: most people continue to oppose it, while those who know more about it are even more likely to oppose it and the supporters (mainly millenials) are the most ignorant about it.

21   lostand confused   2013 Sep 12, 6:52pm  

In some third world countries like say India, they have free hospitals for the poor. Not the best of places and the only ones who go there are the ones who can't afford treatment elsewhere. There are actual doctors, emergency wards-just extremely crowded overflowing etc.

I think if do to your planning/circumstances you end up there-then that is life. Now the rest of us have to pay for your medical needs and we got lousy care for that-waiting at the emergency room for hours when you actually end up there.

Make food stamps the same. Run soup kitchens -you hungry-you go eat there and come back. A little inconvenience in exchange for free food is actually good-make you think about your situation and force you to get better. The same for sec 8-in exchange for that make them clean highways or go work in the fields and do jobs that only illegals do.

At the very least it might make the population agitated and fight for things like stopping offshoring and such. But I guess politicians don't want that and will continue with the state of things as they are.

This whole thing of everyone being equal in all aspects was tried and failed-under the guise of communism.

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions