patrick.net

Yeah, I saw this video a while ago. Only one defendant successfully won a case when they proved to a jury that indeed the Federal government does not have a law requiring citizens to pay Federal income tax.

"That's when this one juror sat back and rolled his eyes and said, 'You mean we don't have to pay taxes?'." Well, not federal income taxes.

But guess what, since that ruling, no court has let a jury decide on this issue again.

So the federal government is breaking the law when it forces you to pay income taxes, but there is nothing you can do about it. If you don't, they will jail you. It is illegal, but since force, not law, is the final word, that does not matter. We are not a national of laws. We are a nation of force.

Now, I'd be fine with an income tax if and only if it was exactly what Woodrow Wilson had initially intended: a tax on the wealth to provide a safety net for the poor and nothing else. It should not be used to fund wars or for general spending. The income tax today is exactly the opposite of what Wilson wanted. The middle class pays almost all of it and the wealth pay a smaller percentage of their income than the middle class. Totally the opposite of the original intent.

Thanks for your comments. Hopefully readers on this site will take the time to watch the entire film and share it with others.

Income tax nutters are the handmaidens of Grover Norquist.

Ron Paul is a fake just like Obomber. He's a safety switch just like good ole Barrak. Deal is the target was way to juicy and they went for it Libya. Who I would run for president? Patrick or say APOCALYPSEFUCK at least they aren't going to be two faced slick talking guys in a frumpy brown suit and millions in fucking stock options who, gets even more if he can scam the well meaning. Gee thanks for the information Ron Paul. No shit taxes are bullshit. Thanks for the investigation. While the hopefull sit there with their brains squirming for the rest of their lives. Just wishin on ole Ron to make the touchdown. Please. How many times has this kind of BS game been played over the years? 100? 1000? The pidgeon that has his pidgeonhole stuffed with people you have stuffed in there with you your bullshit devices. Wants you to get them out of there.

People have been fucked so many times with these bullshiters. The politicians don't even bother with lube anymore. No one wanted Bush to hammer Iraq. The world said it. Bush said fuck them I'm taking it anyway. Obomber forget it. It was a dire emergency getting to that woman that was raped in Libya. Why we are so good Obomber said. Even the Salvation Army blushes. At his goodness. That just goes to show you what was represented as law is BS. It also shows us the debt merchants you serve do whatever the fuck they feel like when they feel like. APPROVAL or not. Screw the law. Obviously there is none. Just uniforms and thugs, weapons and other peoples resources to get. Of course all the other debt laden, debt slave peoples raised hell. Yep its like that in other countries to believe it or not.

I like a Patrick, APOCALYPSEFUCK ticket because I'm sure getting tired of all the BS.

Its not philosophy with us. Get it. See its not kindness and reason. Its business. See. You want to do business belly up. You want to be the dealers of the World of subconcious bullshit. Be our guest and take a walk. Cause we ain't playin.

Anonymousone says

Is there really a law requiring you to pay an income tax?

Yes, federal laws upheld legality of the Internal revenue code. The judges who's job and expertise is to interprets our laws already told you the answer Ask Wesley Snipes how his case worked out.

Anonymousone says

So what do you think about the income tax?

Revenue is part of having a government. The four basis revenue is income, transaction, ad valorem and excise tax. The united states and its locality runs on several trillion dollar so it needs revenue from every source. Income tax is key part of it.

Anonymousone says

s Ron Paul right to say that we should abolish the IRS?

No, that's is like saying we should abolish police to enforce civil laws. The IRS just enforce the revenue laws. People do not self comply so therefore the IRS protects law abiders interest.

Anonymousone says

s Ron Paul right to say that we should end the Federal Reserve?

It can be called whatever you want, but the function of managing finance policy has to made anyway and someone has to make the call, better the federal reserve than congress/executive.

theLandlord says

Yes, federal laws upheld legality of the Internal revenue code. Ask Wesley Snipes how his case worked out.

Using one person as an example isn't that valid. Do you remember the Roth hearings? Tax court is a court of record it is not a court of law..that came out in the 80's...

theLandlord says

Revenue is part of having a government. The four basis revenue is income, transaction, ad valorem and excise tax. The united states and its locality runs on several trillion dollar so it needs revenue from every source. Income tax is key part of it. a single fairtax will never work.

Revenue WAS part of government...before fractional reserve banking. What specifically is the source of money?...the government because it gets printed up. So why would the government need or require someone to pay it something it already has? Of course that creates a deficit but that's what we've had since '33.

theLandlord says

It can be called whatever you want, but the function of managing finance policy has to made anyway, better the federal reserve than congress/executive.

But the constitution specifically states that congress controls the money supply. The federal reserve tries to imply two things. If they are part of the government they must be open to FOIA. If they are not part of the government then they need to pay property taxes to the DC local government...right now neither one of these are happening.

It is a odd concept when you think about it because what someone does does not always dictate how much they make. So how productive can an economy be for the purposes of taxation if it is a regressive taxation? If we need more doctors simply don't tax them. We don't need more bad movies so tax actors more etc. By making it uniform it assumes that the value is nearly the same.

If a income tax was a flat tax or if there was a tax per person for the purposes of a general tax it would make more sense than a income tax. The employer acts as a withholding agent and does not get compensated for it. The taxpayer has to keep records at their own expense and due to complexities sometimes has to hire someone to do the taxes for them. Tax accountants don't want reform..same with H&R block etc.

I just love horseshit dialog. Like I am impressed with O'Reilly or Blizter. Or serve him up again RON. I wrote another comment somewhere. Truth is the crappers that benefit are going to jump on things like this all day long. It's in somes best interest to run with the swindlers. Im aware of that. Some just don't get it.

FACT IS ITS PAPER. Paper isn't worth a damn. Now the measurement of paper is. Not measured in worth to what the real asset or good is. Oh no, why because you can only wipe your fanny with it. No the equation goes more like this length of time how many little pieces of paper you get for your labor (credits). Simple enough. Further demonstrated. Paper don't mean anything to them. They probably burn it. Dosen't do anything. However what they are really doing is taking AWAY little pieces of paper (credits) so you will be their little laborer (debt slave) even longer.

In many cases its how they get the ones that get more on the back side. I kind of like it in a way to see those that have to play the game. The ones that game others get screwed. You ain't leaving anytime soon count on that. Or the more you owe the more they have you. Plus you may have a nice big mortgage to pay off. I'm in property I know how it goes out here.

So not only are you getting screwed by the mark up in goods. 50% to 70% in most cases. Liter of coke 3c to make. Check the percentage of mark-up on that. Big screen TV that is nothing more than a fucking circut board. Costs 75 to make and sells for 700. Yet its about the labor. If you were smart enough you could now figure out they are actually just taking more away so you have to labor for that many more years.

As slick as you think you may be. You still have to pay in. I don't. That makes you a lil sucker if you do pay taxes. More than likely cause your playing in the game AND you have to. Have fun with those time payments. Looks like its easy to subtract to.

The income tax as written is legal and perfectly constitutional, but it only applies to a limited class of persons. The Supreme Court ruled in the Brushaber case that the income tax is a "privilege" tax, and can only be imposed when one is engaged in a privileged activity. Since exchanging labor for money is a right not a privilege, most Americans are not liable for the income tax. However they unwittingly sign W-9 forms, thereby certifying under penalty of perjury that they are "U.S. persons" and are therefore subject to the income tax. That's how the IRS nails them.

I'd be a bit careful as to how any arguement can go about because some of them go right off on a tangent.

Some think that it is only for those on federal property which frankly makes little sense.

The IRS generally goes after anyone advocating for not paying..especially if someone sells items as it is seen as validating the claim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_history

Actually to me anyway. It more of a co-op thing. For the people by the people. I agree with Tony open a can of whoop ass on them. Supreme court issues opinon not law. To me its best just to walk away from the whole thing.

But when people are victims of usury and fraud. They get upset. Its not people upset that want change. Its people that want a lot of bastards locked up.

I think its smart to get the usury people out by declaring it illegal. Seizing their assets. You will never have a problem again with sound government coining. Otherwise its just an argument over over how paper is lent. Shelter for people bla bla bla. One thing usury people fear is a law that declares it illegal. No one gets that for some reason. Not even Ron Paul and his bullshit end the fed. Once again Moses never said you have to make usury legal to help the jews out. Then again with all the lending at usury in Israel who's qwibbling. Just ask the Kings that are there Fathers and one really expensive royal tit.

It's sort of like well for the people by the people. The debt merchants are going to protect there property. With thugs with guns that are nothing but bonded labor. That has authority of agreement not of any real power.

When your for the people by the people armies are invading everywhere they can once and then twice again. They just might feel responsible for it. No one on earth is better than invading countries than the U.S.. Wrapping up the resources for the debt merchants they owe. Ask any Iraqi. They now have a happy BP (Bank of England mother bitch of all banks.) Chevron (Rockefeller) Exxon (Rockefeller 2 or the return of Chuckie). Iranian Refinery thats overjoyed they get to refine all the oil. Chinese, Lukov you get the picture. Only mistake that Saddam ever really made other than invading Kuwaiti was to let the Russians and French in to find oil. No one would buy from him with the sanctions. Subsistance level only. He was trying to make friends and deals. As you can see that ain't always smart.

Supreme Court decisions are not law, but the Constitution is law (in fact, it is the supreme law of the land). The Constitution explicitly prohibits direct taxation without apportionment among the several states. Congress is well aware of this limitation on direct taxes, which is why the income tax is written as an indirect tax (a.k.a. "excise" tax or "privilege" tax). I would urge everyone to read Title 26, Subtitle A of the United States Code and decide for themselves whether Congress has imposed the income tax on their activities.

income tax truther says

Supreme Court decisions are not law, but the Constitution is law (in fact, it is the supreme law of the land). The Constitution explicitly prohibits direct taxation without apportionment among the several states. Congress is well aware of this limitation on direct taxes, which is why the income tax is written as an indirect tax (a.k.a. "excise" tax or "privilege" tax). I would urge everyone to read Title 26, Subtitle A of the United States Code and decide for themselves whether Congress has imposed the income tax on their activities.

This is what happens when someone read just enough to come to a conclusion that makes no sense and compeletly wrong. I suggest you understand what:

What supreme court or any court rulings interprets?
what interstate commerce clause is for?
How W-9 and Title 26 ties together and make some (non)sense of it all?

theLandlord says

income tax truther says

Supreme Court decisions are not law, but the Constitution is law (in fact, it is the supreme law of the land). The Constitution explicitly prohibits direct taxation without apportionment among the several states. Congress is well aware of this limitation on direct taxes, which is why the income tax is written as an indirect tax (a.k.a. "excise" tax or "privilege" tax). I would urge everyone to read Title 26, Subtitle A of the United States Code and decide for themselves whether Congress has imposed the income tax on their activities.

This is what happens when someone read just enough to come to a conclusion that makes no sense and compeletly wrong. I suggest you understand what:

What supreme court or any court rulings interprets?
what interstate commerce clause is for and how/who it limits?
How W-9 and Title 26 ties together and make some (non)sense of it all?

1. Court rulings interpret law, but are not themselves law.
2. The interstate commerce clause is for interstate commerce. If I exchange my labor for money within a state, I am not engaging in interstate commerce.
3. W-9 and Title 26 do indeed tie together, but I don't see your point. Can you please elaborate further?

ArtimusMaxtor says

Supreme court issues opinon not law.

The sc does not make law but it certainly can strike laws down which can pretty much create policy if the changes are vast. If Obamcare is held up it eliminates most of the state lawsuits against it. If it is not held up then it might be totally or partially dismantled.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone of these arguments has been resoundingly rejected by the Courts. So be prepared to do time and pay serious financial penalties if you believe that paying federal taxes is optional.

Income taxes are definitely not optional. If the tax has been imposed on you, then you must pay it. The question is: are you liable? Read Title 26, Subtitle A and decide for yourself.

income tax truther says

Income taxes are definitely not optional. If the tax has been imposed on you, then you must pay it. The question is: are you liable? Read Title 26, Subtitle A and decide for yourself.

you seem to have a great big find with IRC language that interprets in your favor. That's what Wesley Snipe believed too and went to jail. In any case, your above posts demonstrate legal analysis like a third grader.

Title 26 (A) is a bible of tax and legal jargons containing several million words. So no, you'll have to tell us your big find that no lawyer/judge in America don't know.

As Ron Paul states in this video, whether it's lawful or not is irrelevant. If the IRS is holding all the cards you better pay or else. Personally, I'm fine with indirect taxes collected the same from everyone(not the case with Federal taxes, SS, Medicare). However, I'll draw the line at indirect taxes as well when the government I pay them to frivolously wastes them, hands them over to foreign banks, or uses them to launch endless war around the globe.

I guess that was the thing with the Tea tax back in the 1700's though right? We all know how that one turned out...

Wesley Snipes was a proponent of the "861 position" that section 861 of the Code is the controlling law concerning what income is subject to the income tax, and what income is not. The problem is that 861 does not control the imposition of the income tax.

income tax truther says

If you can find something about "taxable income" relating to average working Americans, please let me know because you'd be the first person in history to find it.

That's easy, you already found it yourself. income tax truther says

"There is hereby imposed on the "taxable income" of "every individual" a tax determined in accordance with the following table..."

Your average american is defined as an individual filing single, filing married, head of household, whatever. It is within the definition boundary of "who".

Imposed on "taxable income" Taxable income is defined under part B section 63.

In essense, that sentence covers who is subject to income tax and reference what taxable income means. That's basic law language.

income tax truther says

if you can find something about "taxable income" relating to average working Americans, please let me know because you'd be the first person in history to find it.

The fine folks at Cornell Law seem to be able to locate it...all it took was a single query in your favorite search engine to find it, too...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_26_00000063----000-.html

(and, yes, "gross income" is defined, too: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_26_00000061----000-.html)

Isn't it weird how bullshit claims fall apart in the face of 5 seconds and Google?

It's certainly true that the term "average working American" doesn't appear in the code, though. Please try making that argument when you're in court!

Wesley took it all to seriously. Hes a movie actor not a scientist. No one every claimed he was too bright. He jumps off of moving trains.

Someone should tell Wesley where the trash can is. So he can take all the spurious threats and throw them in there. If you think about it the Supreme court issues opinion.

Wesley needs a clue. Not to be endorsed or honored as a CPA. Because he dosen't know WTF is going on.

What you fail to understand is this: Usury operates off of principle. Book of Moses prinicple. (once again they like to throw in all Jews as usuor's. Make it end of days thereby creating a huge religious squable. Jews pay out of the nose for home loans car loans credit card just like everyone else.) For the hip amoung you nuff said. Otherwise what you have is well like a small group of oh nostalgic usuors. Some people like that and admire them.

Taxation operates off of principle also. Hebrew book principle. Religious or not it scares them for some reason. Foundation: Taxation, tribute is to a King. Who is raised up by God. For the people by the people don't get it. So the Hebrew God dosen't raise up 200 million people to be a King.

It's a game with them. Once more they use it to subtract from the stupid. They don't prosecute. Unless your stupid enough to go see them. In Federal court of course. Not to mention the fact they have jerkwater attorneys all over the place trying to get you to pay 50c on the dollar. Then they will take it to 25c on the dollar. because they can't and won't do a fucking thing about it. Only the dumb pay in. They don't push it and like to watch the stupid wallow in several more years of debt slavery.