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  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 5:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Quigley says

You're not worried that the data thusly obtained would be skewed by self-selection? The people who come to this site might be more heavily represented in certain political leanings.

Yeah, it appears to have morphed into a forum for right wingers to vent their spleen.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 8:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

The Center for Security Policy.

Completely unbiased of course.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 9:01am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Dan8267 says

The real story is that the UK has such draconian laws.

And yet it doesn't have the death penalty. Or remotely comparable prison populations...

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 9:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Ironman says

The alternative is to do NOTHING, which is what is going on now by the administration.

Tell us Bigs, how would YOU try to sort out the good guys from the bad guys coming here?

Those people visiting on holiday? Studying? Applying for immigrant visas? Those people apply for visas, your embassies study the applications, and guess what, they accept or reject them based on the information they gather. Better than a blanket ban on 1.6bn people, wouldn't you say?

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 9:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

You don't see what you don't want to see.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 9:29am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Ironman says

Bigsby says

You don't see what you don't want to see.

Care to show us the multiple videos of good American Muslims protesting down the streets about these "bad apples" in S.B. and assuring everyone that this a rarity?

Why do they need to march down streets? Did you march down the street protesting the murders at the Planned Parenthood clinic?

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 9:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Ironman says

I guess the fiance visa screening process is very good, right?

That's the same type of screening that's used for the Syrian refugees....

How many other people have come over on such visas and committed crimes? Were citizens of those countries or of similar religions banned?

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 3:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Quigley says

My point was that imposing a gun ban required the exact same logic, so your suggestions are as ridiculous for that as they are for banning an entire major world religion.

What? Believing in reasonable gun control isn't the same as thinking that you can introduce a gun ban in the US. That horse has already bolted. And either way, that is not remotely the same as you talking about banning a religion - the two quite clearly do not 'require the exact same logic' as you put it.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 4:03pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says

Just draw a cartoon of Mohammad if you want them to March.

Bigs, don't you think it's in the interest of Muslims to put some force behind their claims that Muslims don't support terrorism?

I'm tired of reading this over and over again. I am the only person on here who lives in a Muslim country. I see every day people speaking out against the threat from Daesh. Many Muslims aren't silent about it, just as they weren't silent about San Bernardino. That some people assume there hasn't been a response simply because they don't search it out doesn't then mean there hasn't been one. In the current climate, people are much more inclined to presume the worst, imagining Muslims aren't saying anything against it, or like people on here, preferring to focus on such things as a clearly biased poll that feeds their prejudices.
There is, however, quite clearly a real and present danger with the likes of Daesh. That has developed for a myriad of reasons, one obviously being an extremist interpretation of their religion. There are also other factors at play and to pretend otherwise is simply ignoring potential causative factors that could be addressed. That doesn't then mean that we should turn a blind eye to the things we find abhorrent. This isn't about appeasing religious fundamentalists. They need to be dealt with, but you don't do that by demonizing the entire religion of 1.6bn people - that simply feeds into ISIS propaganda against the West, which is precisely what they want.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 4:12pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Quigley says

They only march down the street in protest when someone "insults Islam" by drawing a cartoon or showing disrespect to a Quran. The next level of marching down the streets is happening now in Europe where areas now have a majority Muslims. The street marches there more resemble anarchist raids.
This is why we need to do as Trump suggested and put a stop to Muslim immigration. If we get too many, they'll hit the singularity point and we'll have no end of Muslim trouble. Keep em low numbers and spread out and we'll probably be ok.

Let me guess, you actually believed what Trump said when he talked straight out of his arse about there being "places in London and other places that are so radicalised that the police are afraid for their own lives."

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 4:34pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (3)     quote      

Quigley says

If the qualifications for President include being a pandering, pussy, sack of lying horse shit, then yes, Trump is clearly unqualified.

You have to be joking. Trump's whole campaign is based on pandering to people's baser instincts, most of which has been supported by a litany of lies.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 4:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

thunderlips11 says

Whereas the Bush-Clinton-Obama promises of free trade and mass immigration leading to everybody having a high tech job of the future(tm) and an increased Standard of Living were all true.

What has that got to do with someone claiming that Trump doesn't pander or lie?

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 4:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

thunderlips11 says

Bigsby says

What has that got to do with someone claiming that Trump doesn't pander or lie?

Those who "Serious" people who back the "Serious" Candidates tell plenty of lies and attempt to manufacture as much consent as possible.

For all his Faults, Trump is Stretching the Overton Window in every direction while the Clerisy is trying to use shame to stop him. Problem is, the Clerisy's respect and honor among the populace was lost a long time ago, Trump is just putting voice to it.

And again, that doesn't mean he isn't pandering and lying because he quite clearly is.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 5:48pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Quigley says

The president that every democrat looks back on as the greatest ever, FDR, banned immigrants from Japan, Germany, and Italy during WWII.

Amazing. And during WWII as well. I wonder why he did that.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 6:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Quigley says

Ever heard of the "War on Terror?" Seems to most of us that the exact wrong way to go about it is to import more terrorists to our homeland.

Yeah, because the 'War on Terror' is exactly the same as WWII. And I don't think the plan is to import more terrorists, is it? It is to let a very small number of Syrian refugees (a whopping 10,000) enter the country - a tiny fraction of the total refugee crisis that your country played a quite substantial role in creating in the first place. And that is without even touching on the utterly moronic blatherings of Trump in regard to banning the entry of all Muslims, including US citizens, something that you seem happy to support despite the fact it violates international law and openly discriminates against one religion. As I recall, you hold up the US constitution any time it serves your own purposes. What about the equal protection clause and the First Amendment’s doctrine of freedom of religion? I take it you don't care about those because they don't serve your own prejudices.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 8, 6:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Ironman says

Bigsby says

claiming that Trump doesn't pander or lie?

Why don't you post the list of lies instead of your normal keyboard diarrhea.

Why don't I just put you on ignore so I can avoid your tiresome trolling?

But anyway, you could start with his 9/11 comments. Or that refugees are being sent to Republican states and not Democrat ones. Or his claim that 81% of whites who are murdered are killed by blacks. Or contrasting his comment in his 1999 book that he has 'little appetite for those who hate or preach intolerance' with all his intolerant pronouncements in this campaign. Or his claim that Obama wants to take in 250,000 Syrian refugees. And on and on you can go.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:14am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

bgamall4 says

It was a fraud, a fake. You are wasting your time. There were three white, male, athletic, tall shooters.

Repeating parrot style one eye witness account, an account that contradicts all the other people there, doesn't, amazingly enough, make it a fact.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:42am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

bgamall4 says

You can't debunk it. So the doubt must stay with you forever unless you are intellectually dishonest.

Debunk what? Eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. You've got one that is contradicted by multiple accounts. You, of course, ignore the many in favour of the one. Why is that? For crying out loud, her account in itself raises an obvious question - how exactly could she claim they were white when they were masked?

bgamall4 says

Based on the track record of the Obama admin, virtually all mass shootings have been hoaxes or false flags.

Only in the mind of a conspiracist like you.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 4:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

I heard over the weekend the Saudi students who come to the US get about $100,000 in spending money per annum. They don't bother to take our jobs, but love to take our lives.

Care to offer some proof for that figure? As far as I'm aware, they get a very generous package, including a monthly stipend of a little below $2000. If you know differently, then feel free to provide a link. You keep blathering about changing the outlook of Muslims. What better way than having their most intelligent young people studying abroad? They will be some of the most influential members of their society. If a good number of them leave with more positive views of the West, are more open to the West, etc., then that should be viewed as a very good thing (even to you). But instead, here you are throwing out false figures and putting a negative spin on a clearly positive thing.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 4:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (3)     quote      

zzyzzx says

Carter Banned Iranians from Coming to US During Hostage Crisis

Trump is a monster, a madman and a vile racist. He's just like Hitler. Or Jimmy Carter.

During the Iranian hostage crisis, Carter issued a number of orders to put pressure on Iran. Among these, Iranians were banned from entering the United States.

Yes, because that is clearly the same as banning all Muslims from every single country outside of the US, something which would also, apparently, include your own US Muslim citizens living abroad. The fact that you are lapping up such glaring fascist demagoguery speaks volumes.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 6:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

I have no proof. I heard about it. Maybe it is the rich Saudis who give their spoilt rotten kids $100K in spending money.

So you mean you were just peddling made up shite.

Strategist says

I actually agree with you. Studying in the West will be an overall positive. I'm just pissed at terrorism right now, and therefore I mock Muslims.

I hope you are watching CNN this second. Ali Herschi was on, very very critical of Islam. What do you think of Muslim women who criticize Islam and Muslims a lot more than someone like me?

I'm an atheist. I'm no defender of religion. They can criticize all they like, but such criticism should be reasoned and constructive, something which I don't recall seeing from you.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 7:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

Those who support terrorism and sharia laws will not understand reason and constructive criticism. Humiliating them and treating them as the outcasts they are, is what will make them ashamed of being Muslims.

I'd laugh if I didn't think you were actually being serious.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 7:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

Here is the bottom line atheists and even some religious folks may all agree on:

We want a world that is peaceful prosperous and progressive, based on science, without the influence of religion.

Do you agree Islam is the number one barrier to that scenario? And how would you go about achieving that goal, wether or not you agree Islam is a barrier to that goal?

You are never going to get a world free of religion. It quite clearly appeals to the needs of a great many people, so it is a redundant point. You think that 'humiliating and treating (them) as outcasts' will stop fundamentalism. That is simply moronic. You may have noticed that they don't care what the likes of you and I say or think, and no doubt the sort of policies you would support would probably increase the number of people joining Daesh, so perhaps a little more thought and a bit less knee-jerk bluster would be a good thing.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 8:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

What's your solution?

My solution? Come on Strategist, it is an immensely complex, multi-layered problem that is going to take cooperation from all sides to even begin to address. It's blatantly obvious however, that Trump's blustering nonsense isn't the answer. In fact, his plans would very likely make the situation worse.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 8:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Yeah, because in CIC's world a short post on an internet forum is obviously going to offer a quick solution to something that doesn't have a quick solution. Why not just get back to your crayons CIC and give your tiresome interjections a rest?

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 8:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

You have identified a lot of problems related to Islamic terrorism, but not having a solution will not give you the authority to oppose extremist reactions from the other end of the spectrum. So far the "nice guy" solutions have not worked, which is why I support humiliating those who support terrorism and the sharia laws.

Nice guy solutions? Your country has been bombing the hell out of Muslim countries for the better part of 15 years. What has happened to the growth in fundamentalism during that period? And your solution is to ramp it up further? And you 'support humiliating those who support terrorism and the sharia laws.' How do you propose doing that, and what exactly do you expect the outcome of it to be?

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 8:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

We need a quick solution.

It doesn't exist. Your country is sporadically touched by terrorism. You've had one huge attack and smaller ones carried out by one or two people, in a number of cases from within a single family. How exactly do you propose finding a solution for that? You can't. That is the simple answer. You may never be able to. We in the West might simply have lived through one of the most peaceful periods in human existence, and things might go down hill from here in all respects - it's quite possible given the world's population, diminishing resources, massive pollution, climate change, pooling of wealth in the hands of a few, likely enormous future unemployment with the adoption of robots, and on and on the list goes. It's not necessarily a recipe for a particularly bright future.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 8:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

Nice guy solutions? Your country has been bombing the hell out of Muslim countries for the better part of 15 years. What has happened to the growth in fundamentalism during that period? And your solution is to ramp it up further?

Oh boy, and I thought you were smart. Islamic terrorism is worldwide. I don't need to repeat the facts, so stop blaming the infidels when Islam is the root cause of all terrorism.

My point seems to have flown right over your head. You want to ramp up the 'tough guy' approach as your solution. The US has bombed multiple countries and it has done nothing to reduce fundamentalism. And if you can't wrap your head around the fact that the approach works in the favour of the likes of Daesh, then there is nothing much to discuss with you. It has clearly inflamed the situation - there's a big difference between saying that and arguing that it caused it. Even you should be able to understand that.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 8:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

I expect Muslims to realize what the rest of the world thinks of their barbaric religion, and hopefully have some good good rub off on them.

Oh, right, because nothing has been said about their religion for the last 1400 years. I see.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

A united world.

Kill every terrorist you can.

Puppet governments in every Muslim country.

Islamic dictators that go after extremists without mercy.

The same dictators drastically changing what children learn about Islam.

When they are ready for democracy, elections.

Good luck with that plan. Ever heard of a country called Egypt?

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

Yup. All of my posts applied to Egypt to a certain point. See, we have a solution.

What? Your points apply to Egypt and they STILL have a serious terrorist problem. Your ideas aren't solutions.

It's a belief system you are dealing with. You can't overcome that unless there is a sea change in the outlook of those drawn to fundamentalism, and you don't get that from brutality and oppression. When did Christianity suddenly change from the inquisition to most people paying lip service to it when it suits them? The answer is that it didn't. It was a long drawn out process over centuries. Whether there will be a change with the more extreme beliefs held by some in Islam I have no idea, but it won't happen at the end of a gun that is for sure.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Obviously you are the biggest troll on here CIC. Now jog on and play your childish games with Dan.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

No, they work. We had Sadat and Mubarak, cold blooded dictators who kept Islamists in check.

Yeah, tell that to the 62 tourists massacred in Luxor in 1997.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

I actually like some of the points Bigs and Bob seem to make. I'm helping them see the folly of their ways.

I wouldn't waste your time trying to explain something to CIC. He's not interested. His only reason for being on here is to do his tiresomely repetitive little trolling escapades as you well know.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

Imagine all of Egypt as ISIS. Going back 18 years to present a terrorist act is a hell of a lot better than what is happening in Syria on a daily basis.

And you think it's solely about Syria? If it wasn't Syria, it would be something or somewhere else. The US attacks and the attacks in the West aren't a product of Syria. And those attacks wouldn't have been stopped by your 'plan.'

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 9:47pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says

US bombing is not the cause of worldwide Islamic terrorism, but the result of Islamic terrorism. Even Islamic countries go after the worst scum bags, but no one complains about the bombing they do.

So what? Are you denying that it has inflamed the situation? And which Islamic countries have done the kind of bombing that the US has done? And even if they had done the same, you must be able to understand how they would create distinct reactions in the Islamic world.

  Bigsby   ignore (10)   2015 Dec 9, 10:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

And where did I say that? The reaction is one against outside (non-Muslim) nations getting involved in regional affairs. That is a reaction of all Muslims. That reaction is different when it is done by regional (Muslim) nations - hardly surprising. And I repeat - I said that the bombings (and wars) have inflamed the situation. There is an obvious difference between that and what you just claimed. But hey, it's becoming typical of the direction of this forum that you would post such a response.

Anyway, as you don't seem to read your emails, I'll ask you here (once again) to close my account - I have a habit of getting drawn back with it still working and as I dislike the developing tone of this place, it is best I stop posting.

Thanks for the housing stuff in the past. It's a shame I can't say the same for your highly distasteful final comment.