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US Constitution thread


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2022 May 26, 9:23am   568 views  25 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

I just finished "The Federalist Papers" and read the Constitution after that. Makes a lot more sense now.

This thread is for discussing the US Constitution.



True, one surprising thing is that we do not have a democracy, at least not a direct one where the people vote on the laws.

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1   Erasmus   2022 May 26, 9:27am  

We have neither a democracy nor a republic because we are in a communist technocracy transition
2   richwicks   2022 May 26, 9:32am  

Erasmus says

We have neither a democracy nor a republic because we are in a communist technocracy transition


No, this is an oligarchical dictatorship. The laws are written by corporations and passed by puppets in Congress and the Executive Office. We saw this repeatedly in the early 2000's when they published bills in MS Word format with all the edits included.

This should have caused widespread outrage, but I barely knew anybody that was even miffed at it.

Might be more proper to call this fascism as Mussolini described it. Not Nazism, Italian fascism - it's basically rule by the mafia, when the government is corporations are the mafia. It's a merger of the state corporate interests against the population.
3   Patrick   2022 May 26, 9:36am  

https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/debt-vs-autonomy?sd=fs


During creation of the nation, populist Thomas Jefferson argued that the United States needed a publicly-owned central bank so that European monarchs and aristocrats could not use the printing of money to control the affairs of the new nation. However, larger forces were set in motion which favored a privately owned central bank for the new nation. In 1789 Alexander Hamilton became the first Treasury Secretary of the United States (under President George Washington). Thomas Jefferson was appointed Secretary of State. William Randolph became the nation’s first Attorney General and Secretary of State under George Washington, but his family returned to England loyal to the Crown. John Marshall, the nation’s first Supreme Court Justice, was also a Mason. The Rothschilds sponsored Hamilton’s arguments for a private US central bank, and in the end carried the day. In 1791 the Bank of the United States (BUS) was founded, with the Rothschilds as main owners.


I can't find any documents showing Rothschild ownership of the BUS on the Wikipedia or Britannica sites. But maybe someone doesn't want it there.
4   Onvacation   2022 May 26, 9:44am  

I am bothered by people who think the Bill of Rights is given, and can be taken away, by the government.

We have those rights and any government that attempts to take them away is illegitimate.
5   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2022 May 26, 10:23am  

Onvacation says

I am bothered by people who think the Bill of Rights is given, and can be taken away, by the government.

We have those rights and any government that attempts to take them away is illegitimate.

Certain inalienable rights endowed by the Creator…

IE our rights are natural rights bestowed by God, not man or government.

Or put another way, leftists are the biggest assholes on the planet. Hawaii has “Beat a haole” day. The rest of the nation ought to have a “Beat a Bernie bro and pink haired twat” day.
6   NuttBoxer   2022 May 26, 10:31am  

The Rothchilds are more than just bankers. They spent a lot of time setting up networks early on in Europe that have allowed them to sell to both sides of a conflict, conflicts they often have a hand in starting.
7   Patrick   2022 May 26, 11:26am  

NuttBoxer says

The Rothchilds are more than just bankers. They spent a lot of time setting up networks early on in Europe that have allowed them to sell to both sides of a conflict, conflicts they often have a hand in starting.


Yes, I read a book on the Rothschilds years ago. Old Meyer Amschel Rothschild was a moneylender in Frankfurt who set up his five sons in the five financial capital cities of Europe. They had a private postal service to be able to communicate ahead of official news and trade on it.

Meyer also set up rules for the family, whereby only his male patrilineal descendants would control the fortune, though the daughters would be taken care of. They were to marry their cousins, never out of the family (though that fell apart over time). No accounting of their fortune was ever to be done.

Meyer's son Nathaniel was famous for a scam in the London stock exchange where he pretended that Napoleon was winning at Waterloo, to drive down the price of British government bonds. Then he scooped them up at a low price, and when Napoleon lost, the bonds went up and he made another fortune that way.
8   Patrick   2022 May 26, 11:30am  

More citizens are getting interested in those rights and the Constitution after the massive fraud of the scamdemic. Like me.

But it's still not nearly enough.

Dr. Malone thinks one possible answer is to re-focus on states' rights:

https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/defending-sovereignty-the-fight-of
9   ForcedTQ   2022 May 26, 12:03pm  

Onvacation says

I am bothered by people who think the Bill of Rights is given, and can be taken away, by the government.

We have those rights and any government that attempts to take them away is illegitimate.

EXACTLY! Our rights are given to us by our creator, whoever that may be on an individual as seen basis. The bill of rights is a reminder, it is up to the people to remain in power of our rights.
10   Patrick   2022 May 26, 12:29pm  

HunterTits says
Social security, Medicare, ObamaCare, DoE, HHS, etc should all be converted into Interstate Compacts


@HunterTits

Is it politically possible? Who in Congress would have a financial motive to give the states back their autonomy?

I guess the other side is that the states are also interested in power, and so they do have a motive to fight federal overreach, in theory.
11   Ceffer   2022 May 26, 1:13pm  

If you give any societal sub group a lock monopoly on interest based Babylonian debt, banking and monetization, if they become dynastic, they will become corrupt to the core.

Although the history of the Templars is fraught with the usual fogs of history and controversy they did kind of the same stuff. After they took 'vows of poverty' as Holy Crusaders, they proceeded to plunder the wealth of the Middle East, and were then anointed as clerisy by the Pope. They established interest based finance by special immunity and monopoly of the Papal See.

When loitering in the areas of Jerusalem, of course some became lonely and took up with women of strange, devil worshipping Muslim sects. Whether they established some kind of Luciferian hybrid religious beliefs isn't really clear. When Philip the Fair took the Pope hostage, and was resentful of being in thrall to Templar loans, he had them burned at the stake as heretics and he might not have been entirely wrong. Templar escapees fled to Switzerland and Scotland with whatever of their wealth that they could carry, it seems, but again, the history is controversial.

As we know, the Templars became vastly wealthy over a couple of centuries and began to manipulate monarchies and countries through war loans. They also worked in conjunction with the Masonic guilds because of the finance required for grandiose architectural projects, and one would presume, also found the numerous guild halls excellent venues for placing agents.

So, it could just be that banking monopolies are a generalized, repeatable characteristic of human trends towards absolute parasitic corruption. The predators need periodically to be torched and expunged by the prey and broken up.
12   GreaterNYCDude   2022 May 26, 1:15pm  

Do they even teach civics in the public school system anymore? The power rests with the people. Ninth and tenth ammendment make that crystal clear.

We all have God given rights. Does our current form of government uphold and protect these rights in the 21st century? If yes, great. If not, then why not and more importantly how do we fix it? Write our elected representatives? Run for office oursleves? Protest in the streets?

The constitution was designed to be paradoxical with checks and balances. It's worked more than it hasn't over the past two hundred plus years.

Keep in mind the precursor (the articles of confederation) needed to be scrapped because it rendered the federal government ineffectual. Or at least that's what I've been taught.
13   ForcedTQ   2022 May 26, 1:18pm  

HunterTits says

Patrick says
Dr. Malone thinks one possible answer is to re-focus on states' rights:


Yeah. Considering that 90% of what the feds spend money on is supposed to be done at the state/local/person level, that's a no shit Sherlock no Brainer.

States need to take back their power via an Article V convention. Social security, Medicare, ObamaCare, DoE, HHS, etc should all be converted into Interstate Compacts that individual states can then choose to opt out of.

Only medical/housing/education/welfare/etc shit Feds should do is for their own employees/veterans.

That means no federal $$$ spent in scientific research too, except in regards to making better weapons and a more efficient postal service, basically..

States don't need to form an article 5 convention, they just need to assert rightful dominance over a tyrannical federal behemoth that has gone outside it's bounds. Nothing in the Constitution needs to be changed, but many federal government entities need ELIMINATED!
14   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2022 May 26, 1:21pm  

DooDahMan says

Patrick says
More citizens are getting interested in those rights and the Constitution


Same here - it is just that there is a dreadful lack of even the most basic knowledge of those rights let alone the constitution for the vast majority of the population but I also suspect that applies equally as well to most countries.

People take an interest in anything after a certain amount of pain has been applied


This is quirky. It was taught in high school. People should know.
15   Patrick   2022 May 26, 1:25pm  

GreaterNYCDude says
The constitution was designed to be paradoxical with checks and balances. It's worked more than it hasn't over the past two hundred plus years.

Keep in mind the precursor (the articles of confederation) needed to be scrapped because it rendered the federal government ineffectual. Or at least that's what I've been taught.






Yes, that's the main argument of the Federalist Papers - that the Articles of Confederation made for an ineffectual federal government, because it was really up to the states whether to cooperate with it at all. So it created a stronger federal government, but with a great deal of thought given to how to prevent any one part of the federal government from becoming tyrannical.

What they could not envision is an electoral system whereby so much money is required to get elected that essentially all members of the legislature are beholden to corporations. Hell, perpetual corporations weren't even a thing then. A corporation was supposed to exist for only a limited amount of time and for a specific purpose. Once the purpose was accomplished, the corporation was supposed to end.
16   GreaterNYCDude   2022 May 26, 1:54pm  

In my mind the federal government should be involved in "big ticket" items that impact all states. Defense. Roads. Infrastructure. But not much else

I also think we need to get the deficit under control. We can't keep spending billions we don't have.

That said the hallmark of a great society is how they treat the least among us. I'm not against some of the social programs that have been divised over the years, I just think they would he more effectual if they were run at the state, or even the local level. I also think we jeed a better way to pay for them.
17   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2022 May 26, 2:05pm  

I think we have on some level a Republic, on some level Democracy. But when it comes to important issues it's pure Feudalism. Wealthy owners own politicians on both sides, politicians on both sides fuck us. Just look at the scam-demic we lived through, both sides were perfectly fine with all of us getting fucked for big pharma. Both parties are perfectly fine with sending billions to Ukraine, while I think most Americans oppose it.

So I think America is just like the rest of the world, it's a fake democracy, pretend kind of deal. On unimportant issues to the ruling class we have some basic Democracy. But when it matters, they strip us of our rights with cancel culture, and do as they want. I've seen too many times government go full nazi on us, declare us terrorists, and force us their way using corporations, corporate media, and government... all in lockstep. That's not Democracy nor Republic. That's Feudalism.
18   WookieMan   2022 May 26, 2:21pm  

ForcedTQ says
States don't need to form an article 5 convention, they just need to assert rightful dominance over a tyrannical federal behemoth that has gone outside it's bounds. Nothing in the Constitution needs to be changed, but many federal government entities need ELIMINATED!

The states have to some extent. Marijuana is one category. Since IL became legal I stopped tracking legal states. Didn't even know MT was legal now as I'm heading out there in September.

Regardless of the Bill of Rights or Constitution, states know what is best for their people. Someone in DC has no clue what is good for me. Certain states should be divided up frankly. CA being the obvious one and even IL with Chicago and the burbs, while the rest is just farmland for the most part. Feds don't have the ability to use capital in specific places for actual needs, not waste, yet that's how it's divvied out. Give the state a lump sum and move on.

We should be getting lucky to get a nice federal handout for our small town soon. We shouldn't need to go to a Federal Rep to find that money. Should be a State Rep or State congress critter. Meeting my Fed House Rep next week. African American woman coming out to the country folks and has zero clue how we live. I promise that. Maybe she'll surprise me. That's not meant as a dig on blacks either. Unless you grew up in small town America as a black it's a 95% chance you'll be out of your element.

This is also multi-layered for me as well as she might be able to help with my wife's company. Big fucking day next week. Her company is "green" oil without doxxing what she does. Blue Dem in a blue State. Do have one other board member I might have to block out as she has as her professional career could benefit. The fuck, as I type this out I need to be pretty damn prepared. Hardest part will be lying about voting for her, I didn't.
19   Patrick   2022 May 26, 2:47pm  

HunterTits says
Like hell. 17th Amendment needs to be repealed. It was after that went into effect DC started to get powerful.






The direct election of US senators by the people instead of by the state legislatures?

I suppose that did move some power from state legislatures to the people of the state, but how did that make DC more powerful? Because the senators no longer cared much what state legislatures thought?
20   ForcedTQ   2022 May 26, 9:07pm  

HunterTits says

ForcedTQ says
Nothing in the Constitution needs to be changed, but many federal government entities need ELIMINATED!


Like hell. 17th Amendment needs to be repealed. It was after that went into effect DC started to get powerful.


I will modify my original statement with the qualifier: through the first ten amendments.
Agree with you there.
22   Misc   2022 May 28, 7:10pm  

The biggest area where the States gave up their "rights" pertains to finance. 49 states have balanced budget amendments This forces them to raise taxes when they spend more money. Recessions are particularly harsh on the States as they are unable to counter reduced demand by counter cyclical spending.

This would lead to a deflationary spiral.

The Federal government has no constraints on spending (they can borrow massive amounts). By going into debt they are not beholden to raising taxes.

The States get about a third of their budgets from transfers from the Federal government. Since the States don't have a credit card, they simply use the Federal credit card, but don't really talk about it. An enormous percentage of the Federal deficit can be explained as transfers to the States.
23   AmericanKulak   2022 May 28, 7:30pm  

HunterTits says

Senators got/kept/lost their jobs before that at the behest of the state governments. Afterwards, they cared more about what they got from their donors, like House members.

The Senate under the control of the States was meant as a check on Congress by the States.


The two most odious amendments are:
1. The direct election of Senators
2. Income Tax - making the Federal Government able to tax the public directly, without having to get the states onboard to their scheme. It either had to be per capita or tariffs prior to the Income Tax.

A close third is the 19th, allowing the resource distributor sex to vote instead of limiting it to resource obtainers.
24   Patrick   2022 May 28, 7:30pm  

Thanks @Misc I did not understand that.

What can be done about that? It's bad that the states are so dependent on the Feds for money. But it's good that 49 states are not able borrow themselves into oblivion.
25   GNL   2022 May 28, 8:36pm  

Misc says

The biggest area where the States gave up their "rights" pertains to finance. 49 states have balanced budget amendments This forces them to raise taxes when they spend more money. Recessions are particularly harsh on the States as they are unable to counter reduced demand by counter cyclical spending.

This would lead to a deflationary spiral.

The Federal government has no constraints on spending (they can borrow massive amounts). By going into debt they are not beholden to raising taxes.

The States get about a third of their budgets from transfers from the Federal government. Since the States don't have a credit card, they simply use the Federal credit card, but don't really talk about it. An enormous percentage of the Federal deficit can be explained as transfers to the States.

End the fed.

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