patrick.net

Rin says

This is case, the Ãœbermensch is simply a survivor, who's got meaningful work into his 50s/60s and beyond, as a consultant in lieu of full retirement. I'd hardly call that a Superman nor even a Batman.

An Ãœbermensch will never settle with survival alone.

IMO, Batman is much closer to being an Ãœbermensch (artist-tyrant). No offense to fans, but Superman is just someone who wears his underwear outside. :-)

Peter P says

An Ãœbermensch will never settle with survival alone.

In medicine, as well as other endeavors, the best work usually goes uncompensated. In other words, you have a cool diagnostic utility, insurance doesn't reimburse you, but you do it anyways, because you're already being paid for the 30 hours you put in for 'consultation'. Your patients get better treatment and pencil you in, as the doctor to go back to but still, you only get your fixed wages but your career satisfaction goes up.

In engineering, since you already have a 40-45 hours weekly slate of tasks (mostly related to CYA for someone above you, nonsense meetings, etc), then that extra work +10-12 hours is just a burden to your 50-something body. Forget it, just leave the field and let some other idealist do the extra work, just to get laid off.

While I think being in a protected field may not be satisfying, I do not necessarily believe that one should stay in engineering.

I think full retirement will be elusive. At best, you must work to protect your nest eggs. This is a dynamic world and it is becoming increasingly so. You must always react anyway.

Peter P says

This is a dynamic world and it is becoming increasingly so. You must always react anyway.

I'm wondering if many of us feel this way because we're in IT/software or trading and thus, *reaction time*, etc is a part of our lingo.

My optometrist, a sulking ~60 year old, has an office with tools that look like a cut out from a 1950s movie. He's pretty much done the same thing his entire life and doesn't have this sort of hop/skip/jump mentality of folks in tech.

Rin says

Peter P says

This is a dynamic world and it is becoming increasingly so. You must always react anyway.

I'm wondering if many of us feel this way because we're in IT/software or trading and thus, *reaction time*, etc is a part of our lingo.

My optometrist, a sulking ~60 year old, has an office with tools that look like a cut out from a 1950s movie. He's pretty much done the same thing his entire life and doesn't have this sort of hop/skip/jump mentality of folks in tech.

If you remember many moons ago, there was a process known as R.A.D. (Rapid Application Development), today, it's been re-vamped as Agile. I'm yet to see a difference. Perhaps business today is really little more than chasing one's tail for a generation.

Yet, despite all the "dynamism", the pharmacist across the street still has to give clearance, to fill a prescription, even if it's filled by an assistant or a machine in the future. That's what I mean by secure work, a licensing board controls who distributes the drugs out there.

Peter P says

While I think being in a protected field may not be satisfying, I do not necessarily believe that one should stay in engineering.

I think full retirement will be elusive. At best, you must work to protect your nest eggs. This is a dynamic world and it is becoming increasingly so. You must always react anyway.

Yes the extra brainpower required to keep your money on your mind and your mind on your money certainly doesn't help keep one's attention focused on one's work.

Then again at least most of us don't have the specter of pestilence, plague, famine or domestic war hovering over as our ancestors did.

I don't know... but if you are not constantly worried, you are probably aiming too low.

Peter P says

I don't know... but if you are not constantly worried, you are probably aiming too low.

That is one way to look at it. The other is realizing you are too old to go through this cr*p again and looking for something a little more peaceful and to stop and smell the roses in life. I myself was very interested in quitting IT and starting farming, until I got this job in CA. Am still planning on doing farming, but will take a few years to build up my knolwledge. That ain't a walk in the park-with drought in the midwest and spike in corn prices-the dairy farmers seem to be experiencing deja vu all over again.

I think the boomers had the best time in recent memory-life was just easier.

One is never too old. 60 is the new 30, right? ;-)

Peter P says

One is never too old. 60 is the new 30, right?

Yes, one is never too old to attend medical school. In fact, that PhD engineering guy, who'd finished his residency at 53 years of age, was treated as an experienced doctor on his first job out, because he had the look of experience and know-how.

See, in the end, we just cannot give ourselves excuses why we are not doing what we think we are meant to do. ;-)

Peter P says

Why would anyone want to be in a protected profession? How interesting will that be? Isn't it better to take risks? Unless you intended to become a Nietzschean Last Man.

Pete I can tell you've never worked in Corporate America. ;-)

You think Big Government is corrupt? It is for sure, but so is Big Business.

New renter says

Then again at least most of us don't have the specter of pestilence, plague, famine or domestic war hovering over as our ancestors did.

Many of our ancestors died in childhood or as infants.

I envy them. ;-)

freak80 says

New renter says

Then again at least most of us don't have the specter of pestilence, plague, famine or domestic war hovering over as our ancestors did.

Many of our ancestors died in childhood or as infants.

I envy them. ;-)

Liar!

No-one's ancestor has EVER died as an infant or in childhood

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ancestor

:)

New renter says

Of course those unfortunate children and infants are no-one's ancestors.

Good point. I guess I didn't mean "literal" ancestors.

New renter says

freak80 says

New renter says

Then again at least most of us don't have the specter of pestilence, plague, famine or domestic war hovering over as our ancestors did.

Many of our ancestors died in childhood or as infants.

I envy them. ;-)

Liar!

No-one's ancestor has EVER died as an infant or in childhood

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ancestor

:)

Aw damn, I was hoping to sneak my edit in before you could see my reply

freak80 says

Pete I can tell you've never worked in Corporate America. ;-)

I have worked in Corporate America. That was when I discover the hilarity of humanity. :-)

Peter P says

I have worked in Corporate America. That was when I discover the hilarity of humanity. :-)

Pete, it's one thing to watch Monty Python, it's another to live in it and depend upon it for food and shelter.

Rin says

Pete, it's one thing to watch Monty Python, it's another to live in it and depend upon it for food and shelter.

Exactly.

freak80 says

Rin says

Pete, it's one thing to watch Monty Python, it's another to live in it and depend upon it for food and shelter.

Exactly.

Is this one of the few threads, where there's actually a type of consensus, despite slight differences in opinions or viewpoints?

Monty Python is way too upbeat for my taste. :-)