patrick.net

One of the veterans I work with at the VA Hospital (I'm a volunteer) committed suicide. It's sad. The VA tried to help him, but it was too little too late.

Become a VA Volunteer. It will change your life forever.

Strategist says

WookiMan, I am sure you are going through a lot of emotions. Your wife, those kids, your BIL's family, parents are going through a lot too.
Just do what you should do, and your stress will go down.

Honestly emotions are at level zero now (in a good way). What can I (we) do? I am doing everything I can do to help move forward. Sunday morning when I got word seems like ancient history now. I think I got word by paper mail and hieroglyphs when it happened it feels like.
jvolstad says

Become a VA Volunteer. It will change your life forever.

I appreciate what you do. I don't think I could do it and am glad there are people out there like you. Have a buddy (I'm younger) that did a trip to Afghanistan. I know for a fact he lost some people that he would call friends, albeit only knowing them through the military (if that makes a difference). Old or young, I don't think some people realize, for good or bad, what some veterans have gone through or will go through.
null says

Act forward for the family, but glance rearward for learning. Sadness might have a genetic component

Not sure if this is a quote from someone else, but either way I dig it. Thanks for sharing.

WookieMan says

Honestly emotions are at level zero now (in a good way). What can I (we) do?

Time will heal all, as much as it can. My brother-in-law committed suicide over a decade ago. 40's, single, outdoorsman. Hung himself.

My wife was devastated. Her dad, totally devastated. He still cries about it.

He had financial issues. Had to relo to a new state where he didn't have a support network. Hated his mother, who was a terrible parent, and that left scars.

No one knew he was depressed. Hindsight might be 20/20, but you just don't know, you aren't a trained psychologist.

Just support your wife and family members and enjoy the gift of life.

So sorry for your family man.

Try to remember him with empathy, rather than blame him. Forgive him and move on as best you can.

God bless.

It is what it is. Sometimes the pain in life is way too much to bear in that instant and the bliss of the eternal seems a better choice. We all will go to that place someday and can't carry any of our physical possessions along.

Sometimes I think us humans are no better than the ants scurrying around-with their roles and queens and soldiers and territories-Albie with a little more knowledge and skills. In the grand scale of things, not that much of a difference. Hopefully your brother-in-laws wife finds the strength to carry on and be there for the kids. Kids are surprisingly resilient. May he rest in peace. I don't think it is selfish-just there are parts of us that drive us, that we normally don't express. The rational mind is but a small part of us and in the western world that is considered the only reality.

Sadly this is something I have had to deal with. I will not discuss it further on this board, but if you get in private contact with me I can offer some support and guidance to deal with into the ride you are in for. Kind of like an AA sponsor but for even more fucked up shit. Not sure how to PM on this board, but we can find a way. I would have posted earlier but my computer had some hardware problems. Otherwise, best of luck.

BIL #2 today.... Drank himself to death over 2 decades. Feel like I'm too young for this shit. My sister divorced him last year and we knew this was coming, but sad when it does. Two daughters. He didn't want to help himself which is what you need to do with alcoholism.

Weird part is my SIL just had a baby today. One comes in and another goes out. Life is weird. I'm personally in a better place than this OP though. So all is good. Just sad for my sister that has to break it to the kids Dad is dead. That's the most upsetting part.

WookieMan says

BIL #2 today.... Drank himself to death over 2 decades. Feel like I'm too young for this shit. My sister divorced him last year and we knew this was coming, but sad when it does. Two daughters. He didn't want to help himself which is what you need to do with alcoholism.

Weird part is my SIL just had a baby today. One comes in and another goes out. Life is weird. I'm personally in a better place than this OP though. So all is good. Just sad for my sister that has to break it to the kids Dad is dead. That's the most upsetting part.

Sorry to hear, while I agree that personal responsibility includes not removing yourself from those who depend on you you have to keep in mind that this country has been ravaged by the leftoids and sjws over the past 2 decades. This country is in bad shape and people who are already down in life have to deal with shit such as mandatory jabs, masks, anti white racism and anti americanism and constant division, loneliness etc. I don't expect this to change much until the red wave has take the upper hand and the stench of leftoid cultural marxism and oppression of freedom has been wiped away so people can breathe freely again in this country.

mell says

Sorry to hear, while I agree that personal responsibility includes not removing yourself from those who depend on you you have to keep in mind that this country has been ravaged by the leftoids and sjws over the past 2 decades.

I don't disagree. We knew this was coming though. During one treatment where he had to communicate with a relative he admitted being a heavy drinker since he was 15. We're talking a handle of vodka a day. Not a joke.

No one noticed. He'd drink "water" all day. I can't blame the recent Covid bull shit, he was a problem well before that. I'd agree that attacks on white males and their societal role doesn't help, but his issue was abusive childhood and his mom dying during a vulnerable time as a young adult. He never got over that and went to the bottle for comfort. The stories I could tell from my sister are totally disgusting. We're not just talking pass out drunk. Much worse.

All that said RIP. If you see someone going down a path, say something. Confront them. It doesn't always work, my sister did try. Even my wife did. He was a lost cause emotionally for whatever reason. We knew it was coming, so this one didn't hit as hard, but I feel for my nieces.

WookieMan says

No meds involved. Didn't have life insurance. Looks like someone seriously depressed and we all had no clue. I quite honestly hope there's another explanation for it. I will update if there is. At this point, just seems like he didn't dig spinning on the earth at this point in time.

I hesitate to ask this, but are you absolutely certain this was a suicide, and not a murder?

No explanation no note? No signs? I don't know many people that have committed suicide, but I know a few. This seems unusual, but I only have anecdotal evidence to go on.

It's been two years, I am still seething over my friend's suicide.

I am disappointed in myself for not seeing the signs.

And I am pissed at his widow for putting so much pressure on him to stress him out. The Bitch.

richwicks says

I hesitate to ask this, but are you absolutely certain this was a suicide, and not a murder?

No worries on my end about the question. He literally drank himself to death. We saw it coming. He was in rehab multiple times. We tried to help. Alcoholism can only be fixed by the person themselves. Family and outsiders can try to help or even force rehab. The person has to want to fix themselves though at the end of the day. He didn't want help.

The stories that were kept in the dark by my sister are horrible as well. My sister and my nieces went through hell for far longer than I ever even knew. He was always off, but I personally had no clue his bottles of water were straight vodka. Fortunately he wasn't an angry drunk and wasn't abusive to my sister or nieces physically. A bit verbally.

B.A.C.A.H. says

I am disappointed in myself for not seeing the signs.

It's very likely there was nothing you could have done. Hindsight is 20/20. "If I could have done x, y or z." It's likely it still would have ended the same. We don't know people's personal struggles, even if we think we do. Could be a death in the family. Could be something as simple as $1,500 of credit card debt. Could be a spouse as you mention with your friend, sorry by the way for the loss of your friend.

It always comes in waves. Like WTF could I have done? Likely nothing. Don't feel guilt and don't cast blame even if true. Karma is a bitch. Support those that need support like kids left behind. Losing a parent is tough on kids. I'm personally burnt out with family right now. I know it's frivolous, and you've given me some shit about it, which doesn't bother me, but it's why I like travel. I've seen these lives taken way too early and question whether it was because they weren't having fun. I want to be on a beach snorkeling with my kids or hiking up a mountain in Montana. I'm super fortunate to have that flexibility and honestly maybe it's bad of me to seemingly gloat about it here. My goal is to entice people to have more fun, not rub it in their faces. Life is short, enjoy it.

WookieMan says

richwicks says

I hesitate to ask this, but are you absolutely certain this was a suicide, and not a murder?

No worries on my end about the question. He literally drank himself to death. We saw it coming. He was in rehab multiple times. We tried to help. Alcoholism can only be fixed by the person themselves. Family and outsiders can try to help or even force rehab. The person has to want to fix themselves though at the end of the day. He didn't want help.

Then I wouldn't consider this suicide - this is accidental alcohol poisoning.

And I'd agree, the only person that can help themselves, is themselves. One of my neighbors was drinking himself to death. I give him 2 years. People have been quite blunt with him. He has end stage cirrhosis. He's 51. I give him 2 years.

WookieMan says

The stories that were kept in the dark by my sister are horrible as well. My sister and my nieces went through hell for far longer than I ever even knew. He was always off, but I personally had no clue his bottles of water were straight vodka. Fortunately he wasn't an angry drunk and wasn't abusive to my sister or nieces physically. A bit verbally.

People are, properly, reluctant to burden other people with their problems.

Some are eager to burden others with their problems. Only a minority of people though, thank God.

Patrick says

Some are eager to burden others with their problems. Only a minority of people though, thank God.

I enjoyed doing dog fostering.

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man."

When you try to help people, you just get bitten, and it's rare they show any appreciation for your efforts. After a point, I gave up. For some fucked up reason, when you go out of your way to help a person, they view this as your obligation to them, forever.

The ex-CEO of Schwab liked to say "When you go beyond the expected, pretty soon, it's expected."

richwicks says

Then I wouldn't consider this suicide - this is accidental alcohol poisoning.

No, he wanted to die. After my BIL in the OP of this thread died he was asking how he did it. Was way too eager to get info. My wife thought the same. He closed the garage about 14 months ago and started the car. My sister found him in time. It for sure was not accidental. He knew alcohol would eventually kill him and that was his goal. He said as much.

While it's sad, my sister had moved on a year ago and I frankly never liked the guy. I'm upset for my nieces specifically. My sister has lupus, single mom, lost most of her hair from it, overweight, so future prospects are not promising in the dating game. She is successful as an attorney. But I also worry for her. My mom is an aging widow and can help for now, but those years are limited. The BIL side of the family is dead weight and live out of the area. I've had to step in on a lot of things on my wife's side of the family and mine. It's a burden, but I know it's the right thing to do.

Maybe I don't see the dysfunction in other people's lives. It's why I only use FB to chat with friends. I honestly believe 90% of what people post is a lie about their life. They're not happy. I am and don't need to show it off to others. No need to compensate for insecurities. Only makes them worse as another friend will surely one up you with a picture of their family at a nicer farm or beach. Yet you have no clue they were all screaming at each other in the car ride there and back. Social media is a killer of people in my world. It's not even politics. It's a complete mind fuck for a lot of people that don't realize reality.

It’s too bad the deceased had kids but no life insurance.
However, that might not be unusual, I don’t know how uncommon that is.
To me that might be selfish.
Maybe he had a $500,000 account somewhere so was “self insured”.
On the subject of Facebook, I am guilty of posting pictures of my “fabulous life”, it’s a form of braggadocio.
I also like the pictures of my friend’s daughters hot friends.
I told a girl last night that I hope to live to 100, no way do I want to compromise my health with booze, cigarettes, and other things. She was pissed off at me for criticizing her friend who comes over with beers and cigarettes and weed.
I called her friend an addict and tough shit.
I’m unable to imagine living without a cup of coffee, but I don’t think I am harming myself.

WookieMan says

it's why I like travel. I've seen these lives taken way too early and question whether it was because they weren't having fun.

WookieMan says

We don't know people's personal struggles, even if we think we do. Could be a death in the family. Could be something as simple as $1,500 of credit card debt. Could be a spouse

argh! Besides being my friend, he was a close colleague in a tight group of fewer than ten technologists who worked together for two full decades. Hundreds of patents with our names on them. So, he spent more waking hours with me (and others on the team) than any one else at home or whatever. Some of us, including him, rather than pissing away (*) our RSU money and patent bonuses or whatever, quietly, discreetly saved and invested it.

Being discreet to us meant sharing ideas on saving, investing, tax avoidance, etc., but not ever discussing the magnitude of our nest eggs. That's nobody's business.

(*): like minded colleagues never pissed it away on buying (or renting) coveted SFH's in coveted high-standardized-test-score neighborhoods in The Fortress. Those types may have had something to boast about in their Joy Luck Club Pecking Order, but they were always broke. We knew of a couple of those who got fired for illegal behavior related to the company's property.

Being a bachelor into his late 40's, I suppose with no one at home to talk with, he had to get it off his chest and he shared it with me. (Probably like some of the discreet others of us), he had millions.

Like you, he enjoyed travel, once a year "guy trips" big game hunting in remote wilderness, and once a year scuba diving or something like that, some of those with a female companion.

The high burn rate of the new wifey's expectations stressed him out, particularly when the writing was on the wall that the gravy train gig was nearly up. The younger techies bailed out to other gigs. We old farts just rode the train to the end of the line.

He became completely stressed about it. I knew he was stressed, but I didn't know he was also depressed. I should have seen the signs of it, but it's not something I had on my radar (do now, though). One sign that was obvious to me only when it was too late, was his obsession with travel. In spite of his anxiety about the Burn Rate, in the last 12 months he took his nuclear family to Asia twice, Europe once, Maui once and Caribbean resort once. Every one of these were at the peak, most expensive travel times of the year. When he returned from those he shared how difficult it was to enjoy the trips with a toddler and a schoolager and an uptight spouse.

Dolt that I am, I realized after the fact that those travel were related to depression, "running away" from anxieties at home.

WookieMan says

My headline sucks and comes across as I'm a dick. I am. But if there's one lesson from all this. If you have a trip planned for over $5k, get the damn insurance. Just do it. You don't know what's going to happen in the future. We could have lost a substantial amount of money, but due to our trip location being in FL during hurricane season, we got the insurance. $110. We could have gotten massively burned by not going if we didn't have the insurance or had to go on a trip when the whole family is in massive mourning mode. No good outcome, but we were able to cancel everything and not cost a dime.

Does your trip insurance even cover something like this? Did you read the fine print?

zzyzzx says

trip insurance

WookieMan says

If you have a trip planned for over $5k, get the damn insurance. Just do it. ... could have lost a substantial amount of money... could have gotten massively burned

$5000 massively burned?

That'd approach the deductible for many insurances.

We didn't have Trip Insurance for the two week junket we planned to take a pre-adolescent nephew history buff from the Bay Area to Washington DC and other historical sights along the eastern seaboard in June 2020.

Needless to say, that didn't happen and we wound up forfeiting the price of the flights. No biggie. When we plan such things, losing the money and walking away from a cancellation is part of the planning.

Because if you need to purchase trip cancellation insurance, you really can't afford the travel in the first place.

Just saying.