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California drought solutions


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2014 Feb 4, 3:39am   4,110 views  20 comments

by Zak   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Every couple of years we see stories of huge flooding in the mississippi river region, or the snake river region, or the missouri river region. Meanwhile dams in the west have extreme low levels of water. Meanwhile, politicians are calling for a pipeline project for jobs. Well, why don't we create a huge water pipeline from someplace like St. Louis to the top of the Colorado river on the west side of the Rockies? Smaller regional pipelines could feed to St louis, then when a region starts flooding... Just turn on the pumps.. If we really got our act together we could have a 500 mile long portable deployable pipeline able to be trucked in with 48 hours notice to pipe water to a regional pumping station.

Yes it would cost billions, but it would save billions more in flood damage and also assist with western state droughts. Any idea why no one talks about this kind of thing?

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1   Ceffer   2014 Feb 4, 3:44am  

California is a liberal state, they'll have no problem drinking each other's urine when things start approaching cannibal anarchy.

2   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2014 Feb 4, 3:50am  

Zak says

Every couple of years we see stories of huge flooding in the mississippi river region, or the snake river region, or the missouri river region. Meanwhile dams in the west have extreme low levels of water. Meanwhile, politicians are calling for a pipeline project for jobs. Well, why don't we create a huge water pipeline from someplace like St. Louis to the top of the Colorado river on the west side of the Rockies? Smaller regional pipelines could feed to St louis, then when a region starts flooding... Just turn on the pumps.. If we really got our act together we could have a 500 mile long portable deployable pipeline able to be trucked in with 48 hours notice to pipe water to a regional pumping station.

Or what about a vast drain ditch, pipeline, system network that collected all non used waste water, such as storm run off, floods and other aqua surplus run off that would otherwise cause property damage and infrastructure issues. I'm not talking about diverting natural rain water run off from replenishing the local aquifer and river systems, but the excess we call disasters time and time again. And store it in any of the large under ground reservoirs that are being depleted. Or connect all the reservoirs so water can be moved as needed.

3   New Renter   2014 Feb 4, 4:35am  

donjumpsuit says

At the rate solar panels have plummeted, I think the desalination plants are the more reasonable avenue. So Cal is already developing a controversial one.

The numbers there are $900 million for 50 million gallons of water a day.

I like the idea of using excess wind and solar to move water over terrain. If designed properly such a system would be able to store vast amounts of energy in addition to transporting much needed water. That solves two problems.

4   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2014 Feb 4, 5:40am  

donjumpsuit says

At the rate solar panels have plummeted, I think the desalination plants are the more reasonable avenue. So Cal is already developing a controversial one.

There's not even need for that, it has been recently discovered that under almost every coastline the world there is a huge reservoir of untapped fresh water. Some even speculate that it is an endless supply of water, provided it doesn't get contaminated.

5   EBGuy   2014 Feb 4, 7:40am  

NR said: If designed properly such a system would be able to store vast amounts of energy in addition to transporting much needed water. That solves two problems.
I do like that line of thinking... at the same time, I'm not sure I'd want to live "down aquaduct" of one of these reservoirs (in CA, at least).

6   upisdown   2014 Feb 4, 7:48am  

Are there still 'community standards" or similar rules or regulations that pertain to green lawns by the numerous HOA's that are in California?

You can't just up and make or move water, but you can surely limit the amount of wasted or pointless use of it. Start with the easist thing that only requires people to STOP doing something instead of engineering and paying for some huge elaborate system to make up for actions that are unwise and if totaled together may make for a big percentage of the total amount of water needed.

7   New Renter   2014 Feb 4, 10:32am  

EBGuy says

NR said: If designed properly such a system would be able to store vast amounts of energy in addition to transporting much needed water. That solves two problems.

I do like that line of thinking... at the same time, I'm not sure I'd want to live "down aquaduct" of one of these reservoirs (in CA, at least).

Why not? Remember about 99% of ALL worldwide grid energy is already stored using this 100+ year old technology.

Pumped storage is the largest-capacity form of grid energy storage available, and, as of March 2012, the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) reports that PSH accounts for more than 99% of bulk storage capacity worldwide, representing around 127,000 MW.[1] PSH reported energy efficiency varies in practice between 70% and 80%,[1][2][3][4] with some claiming up to 87%.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity

Most losses happen due to evaporation and seepage of the water into ground rock. If however the reservoir is sealed and covered to prevent evaporation efficiency will increase. Even better if rainwater is channeled into the high aquifer then the recovered energy may even exceed 100% of input energy.

8   New Renter   2014 Feb 4, 10:34am  

upisdown says

Start with the easist thing that only requires people to STOP doing something instead of engineering and paying for some huge elaborate system to make up for actions that are unwise and if totaled together may make for a big percentage of the total amount of water needed.

I'd start with drip irrigation and residential gray water for landscaping.

9   RWSGFY   2014 Feb 4, 10:50am  

Reminds me of "retreating Caspian sea" and "urgent need to do something about it" from the 70s. Millions of rubles were thrown at the "problem". Hugely expensive damb was built to close off Garabogazköl. Then, in the 90s the cycle has turned and the fucking sea is rising again and there is, of course, an "urgent need to to something about it", because roads and houses built on the land left by retreating sea are now being flooded.

10   upisdown   2014 Feb 4, 11:18am  

New Renter says

I'd start with drip irrigation and residential gray water for
landscaping.

Check this out, this should be allowed by munincipal water systems, but isn't and could help out a lot.

Smart toilet system that uses shower water for flushing
http://freshome.com/2009/02/06/smart-toilet-system-that-uses-shower-water-for-flushing/

11   elliemae   2014 Feb 4, 12:09pm  

California already had a great plan how to bring water to the SoCal area - and it didn't work out so well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_Lake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Francis_Dam

12   New Renter   2014 Feb 4, 12:10pm  

upisdown says

New Renter says

I'd start with drip irrigation and residential gray water for

landscaping.

Check this out, this should be allowed by munincipal water systems, but isn't and could help out a lot.

Smart toilet system that uses shower water for flushing

http://freshome.com/2009/02/06/smart-toilet-system-that-uses-shower-water-for-flushing/

Intriguing but this will require pumps to pull the water into the reservoir and it doesn't look like it can store many gallons at a time.

13   upisdown   2014 Feb 4, 12:16pm  

New Renter says

Intriguing but this will require pumps to pull the water into the reservoir
and it doesn't look like it can store many gallons at a time.

I've been to the company's website before and I THINK(really not totally sure)that the system can be adjusted to account for the number of people that is in the household.
Even if there was 100% use in every house in the whole state, the added electrical demands could be offset easily by conservation and other means. It sure beats having no water though.
Too bad the plumbing codes and/or munincipalities won't allow it's use.

14   New Renter   2014 Feb 4, 12:17pm  

elliemae says

California already had a great plan how to bring water to the SoCal area - and it didn't work out so well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_Lake

What are you talking about? - this has worked out great! For LA that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Francis_Dam

Yes that sucked.

That said I'll' counter your example with these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_dams_in_the_world

15   New Renter   2014 Feb 4, 12:20pm  

upisdown says

New Renter says

Intriguing but this will require pumps to pull the water into the reservoir

and it doesn't look like it can store many gallons at a time.

I've been to the company's website before and I THINK(really not totally sure)that the system can be adjusted to account for the number of people that is in the household.

Even if there was 100% use in every house in the whole state, the added electrical demands could be offset easily by conservation and other means. It sure beats having no water though.

Too bad the plumbing codes and/or munincipalities won't allow it's use.

Here's one that uses sink wastewater:

http://inhabitat.com/sloans-innovative-aqus-grey-water-toilet-system-makes-every-drop-count/

16   NoYes   2014 Feb 4, 12:23pm  

'when a region starts flooding... Just turn on the pumps'
AND... we could make the floodprones pay for the whole project...it would keep down their insurance rates too....win win. Forget the hi speed rail Jerry...go for this...win next Presidential election maybe even.

17   upisdown   2014 Feb 4, 12:33pm  

New Renter says

Here's one that uses sink wastewater:

That's a pretty good idea, but I wonder if there needs to be some type of backflow preventer so as to not contaminate clean water by siphon from the grey water. That seems to be the issue overall is the potential contamination by siphoning used water back into pipes, and that's the sticking point with the plumbing codes.

We have an Incinolet brand toilet at our cabin that works pretty well, but for overall mass household daily use the energy factor makes it unfeasible.

18   Waitingtobuy   2014 Feb 4, 1:29pm  

Agriculture uses 80-85% of the water in California, while cities use 10% or so. It's nice talking about pipelines and limited use of water in urban areas. Even if you miraculously save 50% more water, that's now 15% of the total.

I'm not down with my taxes increasing because agribusiness is getting even MORE corporate welfare. Agriculture either has to pony up more for water, or stop using so much. It's that simple.

19   Heraclitusstudent   2014 Feb 4, 1:44pm  

Waitingtobuy says

Agriculture either has to pony up more for water, or stop using so much. It's that simple.

You either have to pay for it, or stop eating the stuff they grow.

20   Waitingtobuy   2014 Feb 4, 2:33pm  

Heraclitusstudent says

Waitingtobuy says

Agriculture either has to pony up more for water, or stop using so much. It's that simple.

You either have to pay for it, or stop eating the stuff they grow.

I do pay for it...in the prices of fruits and vegetables. I don't want to both pay for it and have my taxes raised to support some farmer's business. Why do we not question taxpayers subsidizing businesses?

Reduce their watering, or charge more at the store. At least I would have a choice.

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