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What will the GOP be like in 10 years?
invite response
2013 Oct 11, 4:16am 86,071 views 242 comments
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Yeah- the blue state model. Seeing as how California has the largest economy
in the US, bigger than all 49 other states combined, with NY, and MA not far
behind tells me that the "Blue" states know something about doing things right.
Like making TONS of money.
How are most of those red states doing? Yeah.... thought so.
See you are confusing private and public sectors here.
The Blue State model refers to the big bloated, union and pension heavy municipal and state governments that are bankrupting city after city in Democrat run states/cities with their incompetence and greed.
California is uniquely blessed with beautiful land, climate, and the world's most productive agricultural land that will attract private money regardless of the mathematical illiterates that run our government. The Uber rich libs in Silicon Valley and Hollywood can afford dysfunctional and expensive government. The middle class can't.
California's government could afford to be this stupid for a long time based on the massive size of the private sector economy.
Now if you want to rank government services from education on down with Red States - have at it.
Next - try to find Red States that are having massive bankrupties like Stocton, San Bernardino, Vallejo and Detroit.
freak80
2013 Oct 18, 4:58am
The way to encourage that the law doesn't violate this principle is to encourage others to adopt this idea and recognize that culture agnostic government is inherently better than culture dependent government.
I guess you've got your work cut out for you.
Are there examples of such culture-agnostic governments today? Are there examples of culture-agnostic governments which are democracies or republics?
Next - try to find Red States that are having massive bankrupties like
Stocton, San Bernardino, Vallejo and Detroit.
LOL, this has all the qualitites of a red state: cronyism, corruption, and shit.
Bankrupt Alabama county threatens to end workout plan
Vicente
2013 Oct 18, 5:00am
Next - try to find Red States that are having massive bankrupties
Gould, AR
Detroit, MI
Prichard AL
Jefferson County, AL
Moffet, OK
Boise County, ID
Gould, AR
Detroit, MI
Prichard AL
Jefferson County, AL
Moffet,
OK
Boise County, ID
Ha ha! Including Detroit? Detroit hasn't had a republican mayor or city council in over 50 years! Oh, but you got me - it is technically a Red State with its current governor.
Same with Jefferson County.
Providing examples of tiny hick towns with populations less than 2,000 people is laughable. Same deal pointing to a couple unique cases that involve corruption.
I was talking about the failure of the Blue State model of defined benefit pension plans taking down HUGE cities with massive populations.
Next - try to find Red States that are having massive bankrupties like
Stocton, San Bernardino, Vallejo and Detroit.
Those are cities that YOU listed, not states. And then you want to try and compare those cities TO "red states".
I was talking about the failure of the Blue State model of defined benefit
pension plans taking down HUGE cities with massive populations.
Then, again you refer to those cities as a "blue state model".
How retarded. You really are a right winger, aren't you?
freak80
2013 Oct 18, 5:47am
Middle class government employees with pension plans should immediately have all of their assets seized. The proceeds must then be given to the CEOs of the the five largest financial corporations in America, tax free.
In the name of God. Amen.
Dan8267
2013 Oct 18, 6:10am
Are there examples of such culture-agnostic governments today? Are there examples of culture-agnostic governments which are democracies or republics?
It's a matter of degree, not a litmus test. Western nations are more culture agnostic than Eastern or Middle Eastern ones. The Soviet Union was quite culture agnostic, which goes to show you that a single good quality does not make up for a multitude of bad ones. Still the Soviet Union did stop a lot of ethnic violence, which flared up again at when the Soviet Union fell.
Then, again you refer to those cities as a "blue state model".
OK - lets look at just the states.
"Public pension costs swamp revenues of 10 U.S. states -Moody's"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/27/usa-states-pensions-moodys-idUSL2N0F21RD20130627
Vast majority are Blue States. And these Blue States have by far and away the largest unfunded pension liabilities.......and highest taxes.
Even the Blue States that are blessed with big Private Sector economies (California, New York and Illinois) are getting crushed by incompetent government management.
Middle class government employees with pension plans should immediately have
all of their assets seized. The proceeds must then be given to the CEOs of the
the five largest financial corporations in America, tax free.
In the name of God. Amen.
Who is talking about CEO's?
What about the poor people (mostly minorities) who live in these cities like Stockton, Vallejo and San Bernardino who are watching their communities fall apart as these incompetent governments cut services and raise taxes so they can protect the pensions of a few thousand government workers?
Vallejo went through bankruptcy 5 years ago and did not reform pensions. They just cut services, raised taxes, letting the city fall apart - and lo and behold - they are going broke again.
Funny how that happens!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/01/usa-municipality-vallejo-idUSL2N0HM05C20131001
Why do progs hate math and science and still believe in Ponzi schemes?
Why do progs put the wealth of a few thousand government union workers over the well-being of hundreds of thousands of tax payers who live in the cities like Stockton?
FortWayne
2013 Oct 18, 6:52am
Should the people be allowed to enact a law to bring about slavery, genocide, or rape through a ballet initiative?
You are taking the extreme view. Slavery came and went because we all as society at some point changed our views on it. It's best government bases laws on what we want as people. Otherwise you get fascism/monarchy where government decided what we want and rest of us follow.
Best of course is small government, but that's not really an option anymore these days.
HydroCabron
2013 Oct 18, 6:53am
Middle class government employees with pension plans should immediately have all of their assets seized. The proceeds must then be given to the CEOs of the the five largest financial corporations in America, tax free.
In the name of God. Amen.
You say nothing about grinding these government employees up for fertilizer, or using them for medical experiments.
Are you a Marxist?
tatupu70
2013 Oct 18, 6:56am
Slavery came and went because we all as society at some point changed our views
on it.
Really? It just came and went? There wasn't a war involved?
HydroCabron
2013 Oct 18, 6:59am
Slavery came and went because we all as society at some point changed our views
on it.
Really? It just came and went? There wasn't a war involved?
That was about States' Rights, silly!
(Specifically the right of states to allow their inhabitants to own people.)
FortWayne
2013 Oct 18, 7:02am
Slavery came and went because we all as society at some point changed our views
on it.
Really? It just came and went? There wasn't a war involved?
Yes and the majority won.
You say nothing about grinding these government employees up for fertilizer, or
using them for medical experiments.
Goodness no. That only happens to the poor minority citizens who are unfortunate enough to live in these bankrupt cities.
"Stockton's Poor Mired In Violence After Police Cuts"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/18/stockton-poor-poverty-crime-california_n_1346096.html
Vicente
2013 Oct 18, 8:31am
Ha ha! Including Detroit?
You said Red State, and that's how it stands on current political maps. Don't quibble. Just because YOU base your judgement on whatever factoids float to the top instead of all of them.... well go ahead and try to rationalize this poor method, but you're not fooling the rest of us.
In any case, any of those easily destroys your thesis that bankruptcies are a uniquely Blue State phenomena.
tts
2013 Oct 18, 9:28am
Liberals qouting Goldwater.. oh thats rich. You guys were
calling GW a nazi for decades.
As a political campaigner and strategist he was probably unmatched for his time period.
That doesn't mean we can't hate him or his political beliefs irregardless of his skill in his line of work.
Or enjoy a little schadenfreude at his expense since towards the end he started whining about all the people he had used politically started to exercise their vote according to the rhetoric he used to whip them up and organize them in the first place.
He was smart enough to see the writing on the wall: the political monster he had helped create would eventually destroy the Republican party and in so doing cause huge problems for the US.
You said Red State, and that's how it stands on current political maps. Don't quibble. Just because YOU base your judgement on whatever factoids float to the top instead of all of them.... well go ahead and try to rationalize this poor method, but you're not fooling the rest of us.
In any case, any of those easily destroys your thesis that bankruptcies are a uniquely Blue State phenomena.
the devil is always in the details...
Gould, AR -- All Democratic Party controlled City with no regard for US Constitution/Bill of Rights...
The least democratic town in the USA.. Bans Free Speech
http://gawker.com/5822031/is-arkansas-town-now-the-least-democratic-in-the-usa
Detroit, MI -- needless to say ! Democratic Party
Prichard AL -- another heavy democratic district/city
New Mayor taking more conservative approach to the problem...
Those are bold promises, some of which previous mayors have made but failed to live up to. The difference this time, Ephriam said, is leadership. He said he will work to systematically reform Prichard. He called for moving the pension system to a defined-contribution plan, similar to a 401(k).
Ephriam also said he would like to give police and firemen a raise, preferably through budget cuts elsewhere. He suggested selling the city’s money-losing golf course and public safety building. He suggested upgrading the city’s stadium to generate more revenue.
http://blog.al.com/live/2012/10/troy_ephriam_defeats_incumbent.html
Jefferson County, AL all democratic party running county
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/11/presidential_politics_lifts_je.html
Moffet, OK -- Republican base with a odd case for BK
In 2007 the town filed for Chapter 9 bankruptcy after Oklahoma's attorney general declared it was operating a speed trap, and barred local police from issuing speeding citations. Without the steady stream of citation revenue generated from motorists passing through on U.S. Highway 64, the town is unable to manage the $200,000 in debts incurred by the former mayor.
Boise County, ID -- Another odd case for BK... lawsuit judgement infavor of developer.
Boise County, Idaho, has filed for municipal bankruptcy protection, but not because of falling tax revenue, rising spending, unfunded pension obligations or any of the other problems that have raised concern about city and county finances nationwide.
The small, rural county—which, despite its name, isn't home to the capital city of Boise—sought protection from its creditors this week because of an inability to pay a multimillion-dollar judgment against it, County Commissioner Robert A. Fry said.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704005404576176841523443046
Dan8267
2013 Oct 18, 10:42pm
Should the people be allowed to enact a law to bring about slavery, genocide, or rape through a ballet initiative?
You are taking the extreme view. Slavery came and went because we all as society at some point changed our views on it. It's best government bases laws on what we want as people. Otherwise you get fascism/monarchy where government decided what we want and rest of us follow.
If so, then the extreme view reflects our history. Throughout our history, the majority has suppressed minority through popular vote:
- the genocide of Native Americans and the taking of their lands
- the use of slavery
- the inability of blacks to vote
- the inability of women to vote (who couldn't vote to get the vote, either)
- segregation
- prohibition on interracial marriages
- prohibition on same-sex marriages
- prohibition on polygamous marriages
- blue laws
- arrests of women for wearing too little clothing on the beach (going back to the early 20th century!)
- poll taxes and Jim Crow Laws
Slavery wasn't voted out of existence. The north had to force the south at gunpoint to end it.
The Federal government had to send in the military to enforce desegregation against the will of the local voters.
Our history is ripe with examples of letting people vote their cultural preferences without restriction to not violating other people's rights, and the results are always disastrous.
Vicente
2013 Oct 19, 3:04am
the devil is always in the details...
No, the original statement is flatly disproven. If original poster wishes to modify their claim that is fine by me, but the facts disprove original claim.
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This is a semi-serious question. Some of you probably are well-aware that I am definitely someone who leans left. That wasn't actually always the case. My Dad, Grandparents, Aunts, and Uncles were all staunch Republicans. I was sort of in the middle, as in I recall my Grandmother telling me that it was "Generally a good idea" to vote Republican at a very young age and so for a few years I simply saw them as the Good guys. It really wasn't until after college that I paid attention to much of anything political and so as time went on, I became more and more liberal in my views. I am projecting here, but I will speak for myself that many of those more liberal opinions came from my experiences being around people from other places and other backgrounds and from hearing their differing views and opinions. Where I grew up everyone had been there for sometimes over 200 years and things were more static. I am not trying to say that's all bad. With that came a very unique culture.
But moving on, I can't help but feel that the GOP has some growing pains ahead. Today I was watching the news and Ted Cruz was at some sort of social conservative event and the news channel was broadcasting what he was saying live. The rhetoric he was using was so far from being rational that it was painful. I also strongly believe that the views being expressed there were appealing only to a very small, far-right segment of the GOP constituency. To be fair, there are equally ridiculous far-left sections of the Democratic constituency that I also find ridiculous. Insomuch I believe that more than less of the GOP constituency is more moderate than far right.
But seemingly this far-right brand of Republican politics seems to take center stage all the time now. We're seeing this with the government shut down. While I didn't vote for McCain ( because of his decision as running mate) He along with a number of other GOP leaders seem to be some of the most reasonable people in this whole thing. How come people like he are not more decisive in this? I have a number of friends who are absolutely as Republican as they come. Yet they also have common sense and though we don't agree on things, they have my respect. They- like myself- do not agree with many of the socially conservative and asinine economic demands that the far right faction of the GOP has.
So when I saw Ted Cruz speaking today, I couldn't help but feel that the GOP needs to get this sort of idealogical divide under control. Part of me would be delighted to see the GOP fade into memory. But like it or not, you HAVE to have more than one party because that brings restraint and debate to government policy.
So with that said, where do you see the GOP in 10 years time? Let's try and keep this one civil.
#politics