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Has anyone else read any of wikileaks?

By bob2356 following x   2010 Dec 3, 4:25am 3,549 views   3 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


I've been reading the wikileaks Iraq documents for a while now and have spent a lot of time looking at the newly released state department stuff . I can see why everyone in the government is in a panic about the Iraq stuff, it documents a lot of things the American government would really, really like to see kept under the rug, directly contradicting the government's public statements time and time again.

I'm mystified about the uproar over the state department releases. "Lives in danger". Really? Only from boredom. I've read a sampling of the most highly classified documents so far. It is almost all banal, inane, trivial, and meaningless. I hate to think what the unclassified stuff is like. The only conclusion to be drawn is that the entire state department is a colossal waste of money. They are paid to submit reports, so they submit reports. These guys live in some type of colonial times fantasy world where things like economics and history simply don't exist. I've seen better analysis (not to mention better grammar) on sixth grade social studies papers.

Let's see now. The Saudi's don't like Iran. No shit, the Saudi's are Arab, the Iranians are Persian. They've been fighting for over 3000 years. The state department is worried about Pakistan's nuclear fuel. WOW, that's shocking especially since Pakistan (our "ally" in the fight against terror) has openly been selling nuclear technology and hardware, including fuel, to any buyer no questions asked for 20 years. Do the state department guys read the newspapers? This crap goes on and on and on. Why are there papers that are classified SECRET covering meetings that had reporters present? Why are idiots in the US government calling Assange a traitor, he's not an American citizen.

The more dirt that comes out the better. It's time the American government starting dealing honestly with it's citizens. If secret documents were used properly I would have no problem with the whole state secrets thing. But vast majority of "secret" documents are actually used to cover up malfeasance, incompetence, back room dealings, or private agenda's. In other words to lie to the American people. Wikileaks changes the balance of power to the people for the first time in history. There is real danger that wikileaks could cross over the line and identify people on the front lines, but they seem to be careful about that so far. I don't claim it is all a good thing, but on the balance it's for the good if wikileaks puts people in power on notice that they can't abuse their positions.

1   pkennedy   ignore (0)   2010 Dec 3, 5:16am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It can't be viewed as what is in there, how banal is it. It's one thing for the "government" to make a report and generally release something, and it's another to have person A have information come from person B and have all the sources listed. Now it's known who is doing what, and where. It ruins diplomacy all over the world.

Sure there might be a few good things in there that we would love to get out into the public, something interesting that we feel lied to about, but it also potentially ruins years of work and relationship building between countries around the world.

Can anyone really talk frankly to the US now? Will they release the information by mistake?

It's like our legal system. Some people get away with murder, but it's better to allow them to get away with murder than start locking up people incorrectly. There might be lots of great stuff in here, but the possible damage far outweighs releasing it.

2   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2010 Dec 3, 7:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Read quite a few. Most stuff is outright trivial. But some is just explosive.

For example how we sell weapons to Abdullah (the Saudi King), who resells them to Taliban who our army has to fight... turning this into never ending vicious cycle of death. How our administration is squashing all the possible talks with Taliban leaders. There is also the fact that by taking out Iraq leader we have made middle east less safe, more prone to new dictatorship due to power vacuum. There are facts that our military has by "error" killed many civilians and tried to cover it up.

A lot of that was sort of understood and known, but never publicly exposed to an average citizen.
It's exact opposite of what the government has been telling us about.

Here is the video of our military taking out civilians. It is painful to watch.
http://www.collateralmurder.com/ - this is wikilinks website dedicated to that one incident.

3   bob2356   ignore (4)   2010 Dec 4, 2:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

pkennedy says

It’s like our legal system. Some people get away with murder, but it’s better to allow them to get away with murder than start locking up people incorrectly. There might be lots of great stuff in here, but the possible damage far outweighs releasing it.

Lots of people get locked up incorrectly. Prosecutors lie and withhold evidence, crime labs make up results, police lie on the stand all the time. The truth does not win out all too frequently. I don't see how this is a valid analogy.

So your contention is the ends justifies the means, that our government is all wise and all knowing, that we just need to trust them the will always do the right thing? I don't buy that, I think the evidence is clear on this point.

Why do you think that diplomacy is ruined. Everyone knows the game. You don't think other countries diplomats are saying the same type of things about American leaders? Do you think other countries aren't sweating bullets about being subject to wikileaks. Of course they are.

What is the possible damage, and how does it override learning that the US government is flat out lying to the citizens time and time again? Everyone seems to lose sight of the fact that politicians are civil servants elected to represent the will of the people. If they are secretly taking actions that go against the majority of the peoples desires then what justifies this? If they are calculatedly misrepresenting data in order to sway public opinion then what justifies this? If they are secretly cutting deals to unjustly enrich a few powerful individuals at the expense of the general public what justifies this?

Sorry but I just don't believe in the divine benevolence and basic innate sense of selfless pursuit of good of the average politician or government worker. I think history has proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that they must be watched at all times. Wikileaks gives us the advantage finally.


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