Children found legally responsible for parent's nursing home bill
invite response
2010 Sep 18, 3:34am 37,926 views 54 comments
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elliemae
2015 Dec 22, 9:10am
Now Elimae speak it the English huh?
Sure - if by "now" you mean six years ago. Blurtman says
I guess the hospital believed that the son bungled the Medicaid application process, and should be responsible for the loss.
Hospitals (and other medical providers) have become much more aggressive in their attempts to collect monies. This was a nursing home - but there are laws in many states that make family members responsible for other family members. There was a lawsuit a few years ago where a guy lost because he was served by a nursing home under such a law, and he didn't attempt to fight it. The home won a judgment by default and the guy was totally fucked. tens of thousands of dollars.
So if someone works all their life, pays into medicare-the state will grab all their remaining assets. But if some bum who never worked, received welfare for life is admitted to the same medicare, they get all the same benefits and don't owe a dime??
Someone who works all their life and pays into Medicare will receive all the benefits for which they are eligible. When someone spends down their money to less than $2,000 and is in a nursing home, they can apply for Medicaid to see if it will pay for their room and board. Wealthy people or those who plan well can become eligible nearly immediately by setting aside their finances.
No, it doesn't seem fair. But neither is life. If it were, Hillary would have pissed on Trump instead of leaving to hit the restroom.
Dan8267
2015 Dec 22, 5:37pm
And the nursing home won over $100,000 judgement.
From a judge or a jury? Never trust a judge. Always get a jury.
And he should have counter-sued the nursing home for fraud.
Also, he should spend the rest of his life advertising what happen to him because of Glastonbury Healthcare Center. The bad publicity will be worth more than $100,000. I would never do business with a company that would do such a thing. He should go all over social media and protest outside their center every day or pay someone to do so. It's his first amendment right. See how much the company likes all the attention that comes with that settlement.
So if someone works all their life, pays into medicare-the state will grab all their remaining assets.
If you feel that way, perhaps you could write a check for the woman. Everyone else who worked their whole lives and paid into Medicare should then have to pay for this person, so that her heirs can keep the money? Or perhaps we should raise taxes more?
lostand confused
2015 Dec 23, 11:15am
If you feel that way, perhaps you could write a check for the woman
If you paid all your life into medicare-you should get better care and not the same as some bum who was on welfare and gets the same care. You have paid into the system for decades and should get proportional care.
Pull the bums of the medicare/Medicaid and you pay for them.
lostand confused
2015 Dec 23, 11:25am
The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 signed into law in February 2006 put a little crimp into things for a whole lot of people and most won't figure it out until it's too late.
So Dubya was the biggest socialist of all?
FortWayne
2015 Dec 23, 11:53am
From a judge or a jury? Never trust a judge. Always get a jury.
Jury isn't always better Dan. Everyone has their biases, difference is only in numbers. Judge 1 bias, jury... whole bunch of collective bias.
B.A.C.A.H.
2015 Dec 23, 12:39pm
Elliemae, thank you so much for sharing that. When I get home tonight I'm gonna print out a copy and put it into our estate binder.
Pull the bums of the medicare/Medicaid and you pay for them
I think you may mean people who have never worked a day in their lives, including their spouses as well. I am not too sure how many people there are like that. Elderly immigrants are likely in that group, I suppose. But your main argument is that you should pay your way, I believe. So if you paid into Medicare your whole life, and then required care that exceeded the appreciated value of what you paid in, I guess it is out in the streets time, and no more care for you, granny.
lostand confused
2015 Dec 23, 1:11pm
I guess it is out in the streets time, and no more care for you, granny.
if that is the way it works, it should be for the bums too and they should be asked to pay on their own dime. Insurance does nto work that way, you pay a premium and if you get sick, then the insurance company pays for it. They do not come and take your house and all your assets, if it goes more than your premiums. Bums on the other hand get a free ride for life.
zzyzzx
2015 Dec 23, 2:19pm
The bottom line here is simple: Don't sign the admission paperwork for a patient in a nursing home. If the patient is able to sign for themselves, have them do so. If not, it's not your responsbility to sign the paperwork.
What if the elderly person in question can't take care of themselves and doesn't want to go into the nursing home?
Dan8267
2015 Dec 23, 2:43pm
Jury isn't always better Dan. Everyone has their biases, difference is only in numbers. Judge 1 bias, jury... whole bunch of collective bias.
In a random sampling, having 12 decision makers with biases is better than having 1 decision maker with biases because in the set of 12 the biases conflict with one another.
MisdemeanorRebel
2015 Dec 23, 2:47pm
What if the elderly person in question can't take care of themselves and doesn't want to go into the nursing home?
Zzyzzx, and elliemae will correct me if I'm wrong and I might be, it has something to do with billing for "Rehab".
Basically, if it's not Rehab, nursing home entry generally won't be paid for by medicare.
That's why you see 85 year olds with terminal illnesses, who would like to spend the next few months at home, denied Home Health Aides and forced to stay in a nursing home.
zzyzzx
2015 Dec 23, 6:31pm
What if the elderly person in question can't take care of themselves and doesn't want to go into the nursing home?
Zzyzzx, and elliemae will correct me if I'm wrong and I might be, it has something to do with billing for "Rehab".
Basically, if it's not Rehab, nursing home entry generally won't be paid for by medicare.
That's why you see 85 year olds with terminal illnesses, who would like to spend the next few months at home, denied Home Health Aides and forced to stay in a nursing home.
Perhaps I should rephrase the question. I know somebody who put their demented Mom in assisted living (dementia ward in assisted living). Her Mom keeps asking when she can go home, but she is too mad off to be taken car of at home because the dementia is bad enough that she needs 24/7 babysitting type of thing. It's my guess that the Mom didn't sign any paperwork. At the moment it's more of a theoretical question since they do have another 3.5 years of long term care insurance to burn through before it really becomes a problem, and at that point the person in question will be something like 88 or 89 and hopefully dead..
zzyzzx
2015 Dec 23, 7:20pm
She most likely gave Power of Attorney and Healthcare Directives to one the kids, which gave them the power and control to make that medical decision for her.
True, that did happen, but then doesn't that pretty much automatically make the kid liable?
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http://michiganelderlawinfo.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/children-responsible-for-elderly-parents%E2%80%99-nursing-home-bill/
So - in Connecticut, a woman was placed into a nursing home and her son signed the admission paperwork as her power of attorney. He didn't accept personal responsibility for the bill, but agreed that as her POA he would help her get onto Medicaid using her financial information. The Medicaid was denied because he failed to keep her assets below $2,000 (it appears that it was a few dollars over the $2k, but I could be wrong) and also didn't provide certain proof of information to Medicaid.
The nursing home sued him personally, stating that even though he hadn't signed as her responsible party there was an oral contract that he would do everything possible to have her Medicaid approved. And the nursing home won over $100,000 judgement. This is a precedent, and it's unclear as to how it will affect the thousands of people waiting for Medicaid to be approved while their family member lives in a nursing home.
http://www.scnursinghomelaw.com/2010/04/articles/medicare-1/family-not-responsible-for-nursing-home-bill/
This is different than the case above - the patient had given her home to her son just after a law took effect that made patients who transferred assets like this ineligible for Medicaid. So the Medicaid was denied, and the nursing home sued the family. The courts found that the patient's family wasn't obligated to return the home to her or even pay her - so the nursing home wasn't able to collect from the family. They did have to pay legal costs, however.
The bottom line here is simple: Don't sign the admission paperwork for a patient in a nursing home. If the patient is able to sign for themselves, have them do so. If not, it's not your responsbility to sign the paperwork. Most nursing homes meet with you to sign the admissions packet after the patient was admitted, so they can't force you to sign. If you have any questions, see an elder law attorney. It could save you over a hundred thousand dollars.