patrick.net

The drilling issue is so partisan that I don't think it would make any difference in opinion if the oil turned out to be a zombie plague or a cure for cancer.

No I love Petrol flavored Shrimp!

Tenouncetrout says

No I love Petrol flavored Shrimp!

Coming to a store near you!

I spoke with my neices last night - 14 & 12 years old - and they hadn't heard about this at all. I realize that Utah is a long ways away from the Gulf, but I don't understand why this isn't being discussed in school. It should be the topic of discussion in every class.

English - how to spell and create a sentence with proper structure utilizing the words "environmental disaster of epic proportions..."
Math - 5,000 barrels per day x 42 gallons per barrel equals how many gallons per day?
Science - why does oil stay on top of water?
Biology - what species are affected?
Government - how will this affect our policies?

I'm just sayin' that when the volcano blew at Mt. St. Helens, it was used in schools around here. It should be the same thing with a huge environmental disaster of epic proportions occurring as we speak.

The Timeing of this one is great for conspiracy people. I bet we wont hear "drill baby drill" again for a while?

I am not opposed to deep-water exploration and limited drilling. I believe it is in the national security interest that we know how much oil reserves we have out there. Policies should encourage exploration over simply tapping all available wells and running them dry. When the oil runs out in Sauid Arabia & Iraq I'd rather we have the barrels near our coast in reserve and not already expended.

I am a SCUBA diver who spent many years diving off the Florida coast and most of the impact I saw on the reefs there had to do with daily human activities and not caring about where the sewage and runoff went. People who change their minds over a one-time event are "fair-weather friends" at best.

Vicente says

I am a SCUBA diver who spent many years diving off the Florida coast and most of the impact I saw on the reefs there had to do with daily human activities and not caring about where the sewage and runoff went. People who change their minds over a one-time event are “fair-weather friends” at best.

I agree that we do a lot to our environment just by being there. And dumping sewage and chemicals into natural waters certainly isn't contributing toward our world's health.

But this isn't a one-time event - and it isn't going to have a teeny impact. It'll have a huge impact to the health of the Gulf waters, animals, tourism, shipping lanes, etc. The only winner (I'm being sarcastic here) is Dawn dish soap, which touts its cleaning powers for environmental cleanup on its commercials. These commercials ran before this spill, by the way.

There are people who refuse to fly because you have a nearly 100% death rate in an airplane crash; they don't care that statistically you're more likely to die in a car crash. The reasoning seems to be that you have a much better chance of living through a car crash than you do an airplane crash.

This oil rig didn't have a remote shut-off valve, nor are they required from what I've read. One failure creates a huge catastrophe. Before the drilling is allowed anywhere, there should be a redundant system that ensures this doesn't happen again. We can't control what happens anywhere else in the world, but we can make our world a better place. Even if the system were to cost a few million dollars, it's cheaper than BP could ever have anticipated paying (along with its insurers).

And we ought to stop dumping raw sewage too.

And we should stop allowing plastic stuff to get into our Oceans. We already have a giant-sized plastic garbage island in the Pacific that's quickly becoming continent sized. And there are newer reports that a plastic garbage island is forming in the Atlantic too.

simchaland says

And we should stop allowing plastic stuff to get into our Oceans. We already have a giant-sized plastic garbage island in the Pacific that’s quickly becoming continent sized. And there are newer reports that a plastic garbage island is forming in the Atlantic too.

Well, that's just silly talk. On this, a real estate board of all places, I'd think you'd appreciate the irony of the statement, "they're not making any more land..."

I'm surprised it didn't have a proper shut off valve. It seems reasonable, due to the number of hurricanes out there. Comparing it with the Exxon spill seems odd. Having 6 weeks to control the oil and prevent a mess seems more realistic than having that enormous amount of oil dropped in one place, in a remote location. Apparently exxon wasn't even that large compared with other disasters it just got more publicity and hit in a more sensitive spot. Apparently a lot more oil is released every year in other accidents that are larger.

It would be nice to see more renewable energy come online instead of oil drilling, because we're just transferring huge amounts of wealth out of the country. That being said, drilling there is probably the 2nd best option we have for obtaining energy.

Looks like there's some kind of another issue developing in the Gulf:

Reuters is reporting that another offshore drilling rig has overturned in the gulf coast, this time in inland waters close to Morgan City, LA. Reuters writes that the Coast Guard has responded to an "accident" at a "mobile inland drilling unit."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/30/louisiana-drilling-rig-ov_n_559221.html

pkennedy says

Apparently a lot more oil is released every year in other accidents that are larger.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/29/oil-spills-a-history-of-d_n_555362.html
1989 Valdez Alaska 11 million gallons crude oil spilled/ 1200 miles of pristine coastline
Greenpoint Brooklyn 30 million gallons over many decades
1969 Santa Barbara 4 million crude oil gallons/40 miles coastline
1976 Nantucket 7.7 million gallons fuel oil
1996 Rhode Island 828,000 gallons oil
2000 Maryland 140,000 gallons oil
2006 Louisiana 2.2 million gallons
2010 Texas 450,000 gallons

pkennedy says

It would be nice to see more renewable energy come online instead of oil drilling, because we’re just transferring huge amounts of wealth out of the country. That being said, drilling there is probably the 2nd best option we have for obtaining energy.

I don't believe that it's realistic to expect that we won't continue to drill for oil. I just think that safety should be better. Kinda like mining - sometimes it's cheaper to pay the fines than it is to be safe.

It's often cheaper when you're smaller to do something like that. But at a certain size, it becomes a lot more imperative to not take these risks. There are just too many lawyers out there to jump on any opportunity, and running an oil rig would be one of those.

Those are all oil spills off the US coast, you're missing ones around the world... Which I'm betting aren't tallied up very carefully :)

We need comprehensive national oil and gas reform available to all Americans

If my car is about to run out of gas, I have a right to gasoline at the nearest gas station.

Does the rig blowup change your view on: putting gasoline in your car? Some alternatives are natural gas (which is no fun, because you can put a compressor at your home and then you don't get to socialize at the stinky, petrol station), biodiesel (or for an addictive hobby, waste vegetable oil, which can be had for free), E85, or electricity.

Well, Limbaugh (in his oxycontin-fueld haze) has alleged that environmentalists are responsible for the oil rig disaster, noting that it's a coincidence that it happened so close to earth day.

Hannity has compared the federal govt's response to that of George Bush in Katrina: "Hannity said, “The sole responsibility in this case when it’s an oil spill that gonna impact our fishing industry, our beaches, our shores would be the federal government. The fact is they sat back for nine days and they did absolutely nothing. The very same people that were so fast to criticize George W. Bush in the other two instances.”

"On April 21 BP put out a statement that said the Coast Guard was there, “BP, which operates the licence on which Transocean’s rig was drilling an exploration well, said it was working closely with Transocean and the U.S. Coast Guard, which is leading the emergency response, and had been offering its help – including logistical support.”

"On April 25 and 26th federal response crews were trying to skim the oil off of the water’s surface. Hannity was not only inaccurate about the Obama the administration’s response to the spill. He lied. I know how desperate the right is to bring Obama down, but an oil spill is not the same thing as a class 5 hurricane that the federal government had plenty of notice about, but chose to sit back and watch as American citizens died in their own homes. Obama’s response in this situation has been the anti-Bush, but for Sean Hannity the truth is simply not an option."
-------------------
I'm sure that this will be a point of spin by both supporters and detractors of our President. And it'll sell more books while they're at it. I wonder if Hannity and Rush et al will be donating any of the proceeds to the people whose jobs are about to be lost, the cost of cleanup, etc?

According to a report on CNN I saw last night, there is a shutoff that's required in most parts of the world. But not in the United States. It costs about $500k and the oil industry has successfully kept the regulation off the table.

oops - link: http://www.politicususa.com/en/hannity-oil-spill

The oil spill is the fault of BP, not the petroleum industry. In Europe, their rigs have safety precautions to prevent these types of spills. Plenty of oil rigs operate smoothly every day and manage to prevent these types of things from happening even in the event of disaster. The fact that a European company did not put these safety precautions on an American rig shows they are willing to cut costs at the expense of the environment. Now that it has blown up in their face, they should have to pay big time. This is the fault of BP and BP alone and should have no bearing on the rest of the petroleum industry. Now, if you want to make a case for banning BP from performing offshore drilling, I'm all ears. At some point, we have to hold corporations responsible for what they've done. But on the other hand, lets not punish those corporations that are more responsible and lets not punish and entire industry as a result of what BP did.

theoakman says

This is the fault of BP and BP alone and should have no bearing on the rest of the petroleum industry

If they were following regulations, and there are no requirements for rigs in American waters to employ redundant shut-off capabilities, then I'd say the blame is on our regulation too. Sure, BP could have gone the extra mile, as they (apparently) do to comply with regulations in other countries.

But if they're complying with the laws, they're morally & ethically reponsible - just not legally. Just like people who are strategically defaulting on loans because they don't feel like paying back money they borrowed after paying too much and taking out all the "equity" for other stuff. If they can legally do it, some people think it's okay for them to do so and that morals & ethics don't matter.

So what if their actions contribute to a huge disaster (strategic defaulters = economic disaster/BP's failure to provide for a shut-off = environmental & economic disaster). Btw, they're saying that the company that cemented the well 20 hours before it blew was Halliburton. If BP was following the laws but Halliburton screwed up in its installation, is it still BP's fault?

Lots of questions - but in the five minutes that I typed this 729.16 gallons of oil were released into the gulf. Hopefully they'll figure out how to stop it soon...

theoakman says

The oil spill is the fault of BP, not the petroleum industry.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bp-fought-safety-measures-deepwater-oil-rigs/story?id=10521078

"In a letter sent last year to the Department of the Interior, BP objected to what it called "extensive, prescriptive regulations" proposed in new rules to toughen safety standards. "We believe industry's current safety and environmental statistics demonstrate that the voluntary programs…continue to be very successful."

"But according to aides to Sen. Bill Nelson, a Florida Democrat who has followed offshore drilling issues for years, the industry aggressively lobbied against an additional layer of protection known as an "acoustic system," saying it was too costly. In a March 2003 report, the agency reversed course, and said that layer of protection was no longer needed."

Read the attachments - letter from BP and the federal report. As mentioned above, this will be a chance for conservos & libs to point the finger at each other - the proposed regs started during a liberal presidency, the regs weren't applied during the Bush years, the spill happened during Obama's administration and the federal response wasn't enough...

Meanwhile the oil keeps aspillin'. Hopefully there will be a change in the regs, BP will pay zillions in cleanup and damages and the coastline will someday be returned to its previously un-pristine state (the river's management has created a change in the coast before this...

But I think not.

The funny thing is, you Libs are your self profiling undoing.
You guys are the "ENABLERS" of all hair brain crack pot, never ever in a million fucking years Conservative hair brained schemes.

Conservatives ten years ago: "Hey Let's drill for Oil in America's most environmentally sensitive area the Gulf?"

America's Answer: "Go Fuck your self!!!!!"

Liberals 5 years ago: "We're growing dependent on foreign Oil, so Lets tax the fuck out of it, though that really does nothing to solve the problem, and let's feign interest in alternate technology, and spend trillions of tax dollars on developing Unicorn Farts..."

America's Answer: "Hey Republicans, NOW what were you saying about Oil covered Shrimp?"

TenOunceTrout,

I need only point to Hydrogen, which is a crackpot scheme of General Motors & the Republicans. The entire purpose of this:

Is to spend a bunch of money on pie in the sky, and not on more realistic and achievable technologies. It gives the appearance of doing something, while in fact excusing and enabling current behavior cause that hydrogen thing is "maybe a decade away tops".

Liberals on the other hand start with conservation and prefer more realistic approaches.

Tenouncetrout says

The funny thing is, you Libs are your self profiling undoing

tot, you're better than this. Can we move past the fact that liberals are responsible for the oil rig blowing, global warming (which may or may not exist), and everything else? You do realize that it's possible to be liberal on some issues while conservative on others? That there are "libs" who are against abortion, just as there ar conservos who are for it?

this isn't a liberal issue. it's not a conservative issue. but the emotional finger pointing has begun, and it will cloud the facts.

The Fact is Drilling America's reserves especially off the gulf has been America's biggest NO can do.
Lets face it, this last decade both gloves came off, and it has been like watching a sociopolitical couple devolve into policy of spite against each other. Clear minds aren't at play, it seems everyone is off their Meds.

And Elie you make a DAMN Good point, why or how is it, a virtual cause like "Global Warming" gets so much political attention, while Oil rigs have been springing up in far more environmental sensitive areas than the Gulf. Mark my words, this only the first in a long series of shoddy constructed Oil rigs, another rig failed already. This has only began.

If you're going to take the high road and crusade for the environment. Then damn it, try to stay in this Century to do so. How about working to prevent real immediate global threats?

Like precarious Oil rigs in delicate ecosystems.

https://secure3.convio.net/ggusa/site/Donation2?df_id=1980&1980.donation=form1&JServSessionIdr004=384a83n6c2.app305b

Let us put our money where our mouths are.

Well, Limbaugh (in his oxycontin-fueld haze) has alleged that environmentalists are responsible for the oil rig disaster, noting that it’s a coincidence that it happened so close to earth day.

Did Limbaugh make such a definitive accusation as you tell it, or did Limbaugh suggest that enviro-whackos might be involved? It's always better to change someone's words for emotional effect, right ellie? It's not as if enviro-whackos haven't been guilty of a long string of destruction, threats, and sabotage to such an extent that the FBI in 2008 announced that environmental extremists were the #1 Domestic Terrorist threat to our nation http://ur.lc/j07 . Obama himself sent SWAT teams to the rigs which suggests that foul play was a possibility. But nah, it's just rightwingnut paranoia..

Hannity has compared the federal govt’s response to that of George Bush in Katrina: “Hannity said, “The sole responsibility in this case when it’s an oil spill that gonna impact our fishing industry, our beaches, our shores would be the federal government. The fact is they sat back for nine days and they did absolutely nothing. The very same people that were so fast to criticize George W. Bush in the other two instances.”

Even those rightwingnuts at the NY Times have critized the slow response and incompetence of the Obama administration to this disaster http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/opinion/01sat1.html NY Times summary:

What we do know is that we now face a huge disaster whose consequences might have been minimized with swifter action

this isn’t a liberal issue. it’s not a conservative issue. but the emotional finger pointing has begun, and it will cloud the facts.

Yet as anyone reading this thread can see ellie, you came out selectively pointing fingers at conservatives, changing the words they said for emotional effect in order to paint conservative critics in an unflattering light.

ZippyDDoodah says

this isn’t a liberal issue. it’s not a conservative issue. but the emotional finger pointing has begun, and it will cloud the facts.

Yet as anyone reading this thread can see ellie, you came out selectively pointing fingers at conservatives, changing the words they said for emotional effect in order to paint conservative critics in an unflattering light.

Oh, puh-lease!
Self-admitted drug addicted finger-pointing talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh says

I want to get back to the timing of the blowing up, the explosion out there in the Gulf of Mexico of this oil rig. ... Now, lest we forget, ladies and gentlemen, the carbon tax bill, cap and trade, that was scheduled to be announced on Earth Day. I remember that. And then it was postponed for a couple of days later after Earth Day, and then of course immigration has now moved in front of it. But this bill, the cap-and-trade bill, was strongly criticized by hardcore environmentalist wackos because it supposedly allowed more offshore drilling and nuclear plants, nuclear plant investment. So, since they're sending SWAT teams down there, folks, since they're sending SWAT teams to inspect the other rigs, what better way to head off more oil drilling, nuclear plants, than by blowing up a rig? I'm just noting the timing here

I'm not selectively pointing fingers at conservatives, I'm pointing out that Rush Limbaugh is using his platform as an alarmist AM talk radio host to assert that an oil rig fire, sinking, and resulting oil spill is the fault of the environmentalists.

ZippyDDoodah says

Yet even the rightwingnuts at the NY Times have critized the slow response and incompetence of the Obama administration to this disaster

The Coast Guard responded on April 21st. Should there have been a more massive response? In hindsight, yes. But if the spill had been minor, the Administration would surely have been chastised as over-reacting to the situation. Our country is highly polarized, libs vs. conservatives. Liberals will use this as an opportunity to show how conservative policies have created a disaster. Conservatives will use this as an opportunity to show that Obama can't lead.

The criticism is that President Obama didn't declare a disaster - a valid point. This is being called, "Obama's Katrina." However, he didn't appoint a guy with a history of running a horse-show circuit to run FEMA (fire him and hire him back immediately as a consultant for more money btw), he didn't have a week to plan for the impending oil rig explosion, etc.

I didn't change the words for emotional effect, btw. I didn't change the words, and quoted my sources. I've said this isn't a liberal or conservative issue, but you obviously believe differently. Meanwhile, millions of gallons pump into the gulf, destroying marine life and taking away jobs from an area that hasn't recovered from Hurricane Katrina.

ZippyDDoodah says

Obama himself sent SWAT officers to the rigs which suggests that foul play was a possibility.

Again, you would have been pissed if he hadn't. I get it. You hate President Obama and everything that is happening in the country is all his fault. The policies of the multiple administrations before him had nothing to do with it.

Attempting to reason with you is impossible - your emotions render you unable to view this as anything other than something to blame on the President.

Self-admitted drug addicted finger-pointing talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh says

Since Obama admitted to using cocaine, is it reasonable to refer to him as our "self-admitted cokehead POTUS"? Just curious how dishonest you're willing to be with your double standards

I’m not selectively pointing fingers at conservatives, I’m pointing out that Rush Limbaugh is using his platform as an alarmist AM talk radio host to assert that an oil rig fire, sinking, and resulting oil spill is the fault of the environmentalists.

Environmentalist extremists have been named as the FBI's #1 Domestic Terrorist threat to our nation. They are violent fanatics. That the explosion occurred on earth day, combined with Obama's sending of SWAT teams to the oil rigs, combined with the long track record of environmentalist terrorism.. it all suggests the possibility that environmentalists might be responsible for the disaster.

"Prosecutors had contended that Limbaugh engaged in "doctor-shopping" -- that is, deceiving several doctors to receive overlapping prescriptions for painkillers. He has filed a plea of not guilty with the court.

The charge will be dropped in 18 months, said his attorney, Roy Black, provided that Limbaugh continues treatment for drug addiction, as he has for 2 1/2 years. According to an agreement with the Palm Beach County state's attorney's office, Limbaugh also must pay $30,000 to defray the costs of the investigation, as well as $30 a month for his supervision.

The agreement is not an admission of guilt to the charge, which was fraud by concealing information to obtain a prescription.

A spokesman for the state's attorney's office, Mike Edmondson, said the agreement dropping the charge is "standard for first-time offenders who admit their addiction."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/28/AR2006042801692.html

elliemae says

https://secure3.convio.net/ggusa/site/Donation2?df_id=1980&1980.donation=form1&JServSessionIdr004=384a83n6c2.app305b
Let us put our money where our mouths are.

Oh Screw me! OF course there's a BLOODY contingency plan.

My bleeding heart, and aching Ass!!!

A racket like that, is good for about oh, two Valdez's at least!

Global Green USA isn't a contingency plan. It's an independent organization whose mission is:

Mission:
Global Green is working to address some of the greatest challenges facing humanity. In the United States our work is primarily focused on fighting global climate change by creating green buildings and cities.

Donate to them, or don't donate to them. But if there is a charity that you support that will work toward mitigating the damage to either marine life or the economic disaster faced by the independent businessmen and women whose lives will be deeply affected by the disaster, please donate. Even five bucks will help if enough people give.

My point is Eli we're so reliant on these buy a rubber arm band for a buck agencies.
We can shit all over fragile eco systems and expect the "Life" to rebound by money we throw at it.

I envision a depleted Gulf and any and ALL Greenie funds going to building Green-wise(TM) Condos where estuaries and wet lands used to be. I mean it's not like Nature will need it any more...

Crap! Send me a check in an envelope, where were these shit birds when the Oil rigs were going UP?
I'll tell you where!

Registering their goddamn domain! And setting up a online Credit card processing account.

Tenouncetrout says

My point is Eli we’re so reliant on these buy a rubber arm band for a buck agencies.

Good point.

Tenouncetrout says

Crap! Send me a check in an envelope, where were these shit birds when the Oil rigs were going UP?

They claim to have been around for years and protested the oil rigs going up. But ya never know.

I'm not even sure what "rubber arm band for a buck" means? I'm not sure why the hostility and strong language.

Vicente says

I’m not even sure what “rubber arm band for a buck” means? I’m not sure why the hostility and strong language.

I'm thinking that he's talking about the multicolored rubber wrist bracelets that are sold for different causes. Stephen Colbert lampooned them when he broke his wrist - sold a "wrist strong" bracelet. It was hilarious.

From wikipedia:
On July 26, 2007, Colbert broke his left wrist while performing his warm-up for the show.[49] Following the accident Colbert launched a new section of the show entitled "Wrist Watch", featuring news stories about wrists during which the character attacks what he sees as Hollywood's glamorization of "wrist violence".[50] On August 8, Colbert debuted the "Wriststrong" wrist band, based on Lance Armstrong's "Livestrong" wrist band, in a hope to increase wrist awareness.[51] The wristbands were made available for purchase online and Colbert ordered those wearing the bracelets to give them to anyone they meet who is more famous than themselves.

While Colbert's wrist was in the cast, the character began taking (and subsequently became addicted to) painkillers to deal with his injury, frequently taking absurd doses and displaying exaggerated withdrawal symptoms of irritability and hallucinations when they were denied.

I believe that TOT is implying that the organization that I referred to is a fly by night agency using the oil spill as a way to raise money. TOT has some angry rants, some of them decipherable. But he never attacks me personally and is harmless.

"What do we Want!?!?"

"Unwavering Liberal Progressive Ideas!!!!"

"When do we want them?!?!"

"After we give the Republicans concessions for Drill baby Drill!"