patrick.net

"World" World in Dubai is not the story, in fact we knew they were in trouble in '08 when construction came to a grinding halt there. That story is old hat.

What this does scream loudly, is the demand for Oil is down. Way down, and it turns out, that Dubia was no better off, or different than any American Bubble era financial institution and liar loan recipient. Dubia was able to do much of what they were doing with cash reserves, but eventually they grew dependent on Oil yet to be sold and energy yet to be consumed. Thier financial system grew out of speculation that they growth rate would stay constant, as their money system is based on "Now". Even though then was historic unsustainable numbers.

This says that even now nearly two years, after Wall street speculators, and Sheeple looking to hedge their finances against a plummeting dollar. Which in turn rose prices on pretty much all other commodities, as those commodities were directly tied to how much Oil energy it takes to extract or produce all other commodities. They still haven't been able to recover from the initial shock of a cut back on Oil demand. Nor since then, have they gotten anywhere close to continue on their boon glory years of mid 2000's.

The world is still reeling, and the price of Oil and the Dollar value versus the demand for either, is in opposite of each other and is way out of whack. When this happens, lending freezes and so does growth as a result.

How in the Hell China or the US for that matter is experiencing a sleeper Bull market this last year, is one of the greatest mysteries, when energy consumption, capitol, and growth is way down. While Unemployment is way up.

Tenouncetrout says

How in the Hell China or the US for that matter is experiencing a sleeper Bull market this last year, is one of the greatest mysteries, when energy consumption, capitol, and growth is way down. While Unemployment is way up.

Good question. One that I've been asking myself.

Maybe the follow up question is where can money really go other than to sit in the bank in cash?

I think the three primary choices are real estate (residential and commercial), bonds (business and government) and equities. If liquidity (money) is shying away from real estate then it would be flowing to either bonds or equities. Maybe equities are getting the lion's share of what's not going into real estate at present. Maybe money is going into equities because it needs to go somewhere and not due to fundamentals. And by flowing there it is driving the markets up.

Obviously the picture I'm painting is overly simplistic but it is my best guess at present.

It doesn't look good for tomorrow...

NIKKEI 9,226.53 -156.71 -1.67%

HANG SENG 21,457.65 -752.76 -3.39%

Black Friday BABY!!!!!

went and surveyed mall activity this morning aound 6am. I'd estimate the count to be below 50% of "normal" at WalMart and Target in this area. Sears looked like a regular day, only early in the morning. Since Toys-r-us closed in our area a few years ago, I have no idea what they did today.

Black Friday is dead. Kaput. The stores cut the nutz off the reason for going out: Buy online Thanksgiving day instead of Friday morning.

The whole point was for us to save/make money, and for the stores to get their faces in the paper with the occasional trampling sprinkled in for shock value. Now that Momma corporate can make the money and bypass the stores themselves, we won't see it anymore. Its a relic. No profit = No more pros = No more camping in the rain.

You folks might want to find some esoteric books on the Weimar Republic. The period of hyperinflation only lasted a year or so there, and it was a great time for any Germans who had hard currency, and also investors from outside of Germany, to load up on stocks in German companies.

Maybe there's some similarity to what puzzled you folks here about the stock markets.

How do you get rising prices in a declining economy? The exact way I've been saying for the past 2 years. You print money. We already demonstrated how we can get rising prices in a sluggish economy in the 1970s. Oil may retreat a little, but it's ultimately going to make new highs in the coming years. Needless to say, the bottom in the oil market was exactly where I called it last year. You won't see it below $40 ever again. Sooner or later, people will finally admit they can't run the world without petroleum. The long term supply/demand fundamentals are still intact and you'd be crazy to be a long term bull on oil.

Nomograph says

benjlee says

Needless to say, the bottom in the oil market was exactly where I called it last year.

Needless to say. You are like the smartest person ever and stuff.

lmao

When our fecal matter gets sifted out of the wastewater, they haul it off to somewhere in truckloads... I think they might be able to turn it into oil... just wondering...

But Dubai has been running out of oil, so they thought they could embrace a new future without oil... the penalty for debt in Dubai is jail not bankruptcy, so does Dubai World go to jail?...

I think Dubai will be a cool place to visit after 2012 when there is like 1000 people left in the world.

Where does the money come from in the first place... and where does it all go?

Why don't the Chinese want to buy our housing inventory?

JboBbo says

Why don’t the Chinese want to buy our housing inventory?

They know what's in the drywall.

JboBbo says

Why don’t the Chinese want to buy our housing inventory?

They are "Dubai" not "Do I buy?"

Apparently you must have seen the movie 2012......with your comment....

Quote "after 2012 when there is like 1000 people left in the world." End Quote

Are you saying there is going to be an event such as the motion picture 2012
shows? Well, were all going leave at one point in time......I just didn't think it would end
under a lot of cement......

Santo Musumeci
Sunrise Designs

Dubai or not to buy, that's the question.

JboBbo says

I think Dubai will be a cool place to visit after 2012 when there is like 1000 people left in the world.

I can't help but conclude that something IS going to happen on 2012. Really it seems that whatever arc were on ends on 2012. Why do I think this has something to do with UFOs? Could also have something to do with the next election being 2012... but something tells me no.

EagleWings2xz says

Apparently you must have seen the movie 2012……with your comment….
Quote “after 2012 when there is like 1000 people left in the world.” End Quote
Are you saying there is going to be an event such as the motion picture 2012
shows? Well, were all going leave at one point in time……I just didn’t think it would end
under a lot of cement……
Santo Musumeci
Sunrise Designs

As long as I'm one of the thousand and so is John Cusak. That's all I ask.

Tenouncetrout says

“World” World in Dubai is not the story,

Certain not the story but just the start. If you research the headlines, the question on Dubai has gone back a few months back now. About the same time both India and Russia central banks started buying up gold. And post Dubai story, India is "assessing" the Dubai impact on their economy. I wonder if the two ( Dubai and CBs buying up gold) are connected. Im sure there will be a fall out somewhere!

Quote “after 2012 when there is like 1000 people left in the world.” End Quote

Somethings never change! When Jaws came out back in the mid 70s beach attendance dropped
by more than 50% and sightings of 'sharks' increased.

Todays Hollywood still has the same impact! They are laughing all the way to the bank!

Pathic!

With age comes wisdom! Someday you too will see the light! Have a beer rip a fart for global warming!

justme says

Dubai or not to buy, that’s the question.

I wouldn't touch these guys with a ten foot pole. There was a story about a hotel manager that told the government about illegal dumping of raw sewage into the gulf with was making hotel guests sick. After months of denying there was a problem, they basically resolved the issue by telling the hotel manger she would be deported if she didn't shut up. What does this have to do with anything? If the government is lying about something minor as this, what else are they denying and threatening foreigners with deportation or jail time for damaging the Dubai economy.
English-language Gulf News said: "Global outcry over Dubai World restructuring is exaggerated"
Exaggerated? I say it's ten times worse than people think. It's not like your going to get any truthful answers from the government. Sweep it all under the rug, it's business as normal in Dubai, there is no crisis here. Dubai real estate is different, times are booming again, after all the government says so and they wouldn't lie would they?

They went on a mad building rush, in hopes of capturing the title of best resort destination in the world. They probably nearly had it, but fell short by a few years due to the economy. Everything that has been posted about the good/bad about Dubai shows a state on course to build itself into something from nothing. Circumventing lots of laws, pushing the limits with workers, etc. It probably would have been an amazing place had they managed to build up and sell off everything they had. At which point the new owners would have owned just a small slice of the expensive pie and things would have been good.

Looking at any large oil based economy, they at least tried to dig themselves out of it, understanding that oil money wasn't going to last forever. Tourism, Wealthy retreat, financial hub.

In the end, regardless of who loses out on that 60B in debt, their image will have been completely tarnished and they're very unlikely to ever achieve the goals they had set out for themselves.

That movie was only good for special effects, didn't do the facts much justice, but that is off-topic.

I think the way they treated the immigrants or ex-pats from India and abroad was horrendous. Then they imprison people for going bankrupt. They're getting some of what they deserve, but by their 'own' laws, they should go to jail for not being able to pay their debts. The way it looks now there will only be about 1000 people there in 2012, catastrophe or not:)

BTW 2012 is the 5th dimension, that's all. Parallel universes, my guess. Twilight Zone, Outer Limits. Or total BS. Lining up with Galactic Central is cool. Did you know Polaris is not always the North Star? It goes in cycles. But that's getting away from the original post. Dubai sucks... I don't think they even have a Six Flags, or a roller coaster for that matter. Stoooopid.

On NPR this morning a Dubai "expert" said Abu Dahbi has really no choice but to help bail out Dubai World. They are the richest of the UAE and have the most to lose. By US bailout standards, it's really nothing (at $60B) but for Dubai it represents 1/4 of GDP, so that's huge.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120974240

Andy
http://www.yigdigs.com

They treated a lot of immigrants poorly, but that happens here as well. Those farmers paying below minimum wages to have people pick their fruits? They're abusing people who can't fight back at all. They're using *everything* in their power to minimize the amount they pay. We had the same scam going on here awhile ago, immigrants told that they just needed to pay this fee to get a visa to come here to work as a temporary worker, they took out loans, got all ready to make the big bucks promised to them and when they get here, it's erratic work with essentially slave labor rates. These construction companies are no better than our farmers and we allow them to persist here.

As far as throwing people into jail for bad debts/checks? The problem there lies in how checks are defined. If someone pays you $1000 for a TV and then takes that money from your pocket as he is leaving your store, that is stealing. To them a check is as good as hard currency. If you don't make good on it, then you've just done the exact same thing. It's treated differently and needs to be viewed that way. Many people thought a check was the same as a check was here, a $25 bounce fee. Ooops! Here is another one, sorry about that!! No, it's more like Ooops you were caught stealing money from their cash register. That isn't an ooops that is a go straight to jail charge.

pkennedy???
Dubai has a different concept to bouncing checks? WTF???
Losing your income and not being able to make do is like holding up the local Convenient store???

Oh it happens here as well, we promise refugees from Central America the promise that if they get past the Mexinan border for $50 they will earn $1000 a week. And then we stiff them for $100 a week. Well, if it's happening here and you know the details, lets get it started MFKrre, buck stoppes heeare... You know sumtin??? Earattic work: WORD ... what you say???

You claim that the US is exploiting foreign workers, no?

Oh, to them a check is as good as hard currency, [so yeah I don't get it]