patrick.net

Anne Frank is fertile ground for conspiracy theories. Start with "Anne Franks Diary was written by her father who then monetized her story". That should get the ball rolling.

DooDahMan says

The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter.

Patton in his diary wrote that he thought the United States fought on the wrong side.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36062/did-gen-patton-say-we-defeated-the-wrong-enemy?source=patrick.net

If you look at the first response, I've confirmed one or two of them but it was a long time ago. His writing was pretty horrible, and his diaries would require some training to actually read.

It's rumored that Patton was killed for his public statements that the US fought on the wrong side, that it wasn't a simple car accident, but a purposeful murder.

With regard to the horrible abuses of the Nazis @ohomen171 - I have no doubt that some if not much of it is true, however the starvation in the camps was most likely a result of Allies cutting supply lines to the camps, because they were making weaponry there. They were labor camps, not extermination camps, although the useless in them I'm certain were killed. David Irving couldn't find forensic evidence of Zyklon B being used to exterminate people, it was a pesticide used for delousing.

I have to underscore that I do not know - I'm not exactly a "Holocaust Denier" but I think much of the propaganda to demonize the Germans lives on to this day. I have no doubt at all that they were brutal, our own government shows its brutality quite commonly today. I think much of what we are led to believe in Nazi Germany is exaggeration.

My family is partially Polish, and my cousin went to Warsaw to study in college. He said that "everybody knew somebody that died in the concentration camps" - he was a student there in the late 1980's, when it was still under Soviet occupation - these weren't Jewish people, they were Catholic Poles. I've also seen accounts of the Holocaust change over time in my lifetime, and before. After WWII, it was generally accepted around 2 million Jewish people died in the concentration camps, not 6 million. Israel has accused Poland of conspiring with the Nazis, but their government went underground, they never gave up.

All I know for certain is a lot of BS from that time which are lies and propaganda, survive today as absolute truth.

Einsenhower purposely starved Germans at the end of WWII it's said. Perhaps he did. Generals aren't immune to propaganda either. If he did do that, he probably thought it was righteous vengeance. Millions of Germans died at the end of WWII.

What's troubling to me is that in Germany, you can't openly discuss what happened in WWII, you are required by law, to accept what is told to you as fact. That's a big warning sign there. In any war, both sides always commit atrocities. I've read that it was the Allies that first began firebombing of civilian cities and the Blitzkrieg on London was a response to that. It could be conceivably true, but questioning anything about WWII, that is genuinely dangerous. If you do it, a bunch of labels are immediately applied to you. You are attacked without mercy because, well, "you're evil". I've found it's impossible to have a discussion on the subject, so I generally avoid it.

I'm tempted to head on down to the swamp and give that guys sister/cousin a go.

HunterTits says



@HunterTits - for the love of fucking god, stop posting this over and over and over and over again on EVERY FUCKING POST.

HunterTits says

richwicks says

HunterTits says



@HunterTits - for the love of fucking god, stop posting this over and over and over and over again on EVERY FUCKING POST.

I haven't. Oho's shit posting is faster than I can keep up with now.

This last round was just catch up by me.

Dude, you need a script to do the heavy lifting for you.

richwicks says

What's troubling to me is that in Germany, you can't openly discuss what happened in WWII, you are required by law, to accept what is told to you as fact. That's a big warning sign there. In any war, both sides always commit atrocities. I've read that it was the Allies that first began firebombing of civilian cities and the Blitzkrieg on London was a response to that. It could be conceivably true, but questioning anything about WWII, that is genuinely dangerous. If you do it, a bunch of labels are immediately applied to you. You are attacked without mercy because, well, "you're evil". I've found it's impossible to have a discussion on the subject, so I generally avoid it.

But you can in the US and elsewhere.

As for what they can discuss, well "Vae Victus" not that I agree. Germany, for two world wars, creating the Soviet Union (It's really Germano-Bolshevism: Lenin's Sealed Train, the Weimar-Early Nazi cooperation with USSR), helping the Soviets expand to all Eastern Europe, and now the EU 4th Reich HRE with Murdering Greece and the unilateral violation of Dublin by importing millions and demanding Poland take in Millions of MENAs, got off pretty easy.

Losers often try to promote their own propaganda to rewrite history that is often "Wronger" than accepted History.

HunterTits says

Eric Holder says

Dude, you need a script to do the heavy lifting for you.

Grease Monkey? Or is there something newer these days?

@Eric Holder

Not my area of expertise, but you're clearly overworking yourself. =))

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

In 1999 Peter Novick published a book on this general theme entitled The Holocaust in American Life, citing that survey, and his introduction began by noting the very strange pattern the Holocaust exhibited in its cultural influence, which seems quite unique among all major historical events. In the case of almost all other searing historical occurrences such as the massive bloodshed of the Somme or the bitter Vietnam War, their greatest impact upon popular consciousness and media came soon afterward, with the major books and films often appearing within the first five or ten years when memories were fresh, and the influence peaking within a couple of decades, after which they were gradually forgotten.

Yet in the case of the Holocaust, this pattern was completely reversed. Hardly anyone discussed it for the first twenty years after the end of the World War II, while it gradually moved to the center of American life in the 1970s, just as wartime memories were fading and many of the most prominent and knowledgeable figures from that era had departed the scene. Novick cites numerous studies and surveys demonstrating that this lack of interest and visibility certainly included the Jewish community itself, which had seemingly suffered so greatly under those events, yet apparently had almost completely forgotten about them during the 1950s and much of the 1960s.

I can certainly confirm that impression from my personal experience. Prior to the mid- or late-1970s, I had had only the vaguest impression that virtually all the Jews and Gypsies of Europe had been exterminated during the Second World War, and although the term “Holocaust” was in widespread use, it invariably referred to a “Nuclear Holocaust,” a term long-since supplanted and scarcely used today. Then, after the Berlin Wall fell, I was quite surprised to discover that Eastern Europe was still filled with vast numbers of unexterminated Gypsies, who quickly flooded into the West and provoked all sorts of political controversies.

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

The Rediscovery of the Holocaust
The late scholar Raul Hilberg is universally acknowledged as the founder of modern Holocaust studies, which began with the 1961 publication of his massive volume The Destruction of the European Jews. In his very interesting 2007 Hilberg obituary, historian Norman Finkelstein emphasizes that prior to Hilberg’s work, there had been virtually no writing on the Holocaust, and discussion of the topic was considered almost “taboo.” For a recent event of such apparent enormity to have been so completely wiped away from public discussion and the consciousness of historians and political scientists can be explained in several different ways. But once I began to investigate the circumstances behind Hilberg’s ground-breaking work, I encountered all sorts of strange ironies.

According to Wikipedia, Hilberg’s family of Austrian Jews coincidentally arrived in the United States on the exact day in 1939 that war broke out, and in his early teens he was soon horrified to read all the news reports of the ongoing extermination of his fellow Jews in the continent his family had left behind, even telephoning Jewish leaders asking why they were doing so little to save their kinsmen from annihilation. He subsequently served in the U.S. military in Europe, then majored in Political Science at Brooklyn College after the end of the conflict. The inspiration for his future scholarly focus seems to have come when he was shocked by a remark made by one of his lecturers, Hans Rosenberg:

The most wicked atrocities perpetrated on a civilian population in modern times occurred during the Napoleonic occupation of Spain.

When Hilberg asked how Rosenberg, himself a German-Jewish refugee, could have so totally ignored the murder of 6 million Jews, a monstrous crime committed just a couple of years earlier, Rosenberg sought to deflect the question, saying that “it was a complicated matter” and “history doesn’t teach down into the present age.” Since Rosenberg was a student of Meinecke, whom Lipstadt has bitterly denounced as an implicit Holocaust Denier, one wonders whether Rosenberg may have shared the beliefs of his mentor but was reluctant to admit that fact to his overwhelmingly Jewish students in emotionally-charged postwar Brooklyn.

Later, Hilberg conducted his doctoral research at Columbia under Franz Neumann, another German-Jewish refugee scholar. But when Hilberg indicated he wanted his research to focus on the extermination of Europe’s Jews, Neumann strongly discouraged that topic, warning Hilberg that doing so would be professionally imprudent and might become “his academic funeral.” When he attempted to publish his research in book form, it received numerous negative reviews, with Israel’s Yad Vashem fearing it would encounter “hostile criticism,” and over a six year period, it was rejected by several major publishing houses along with Princeton University, based on the advice of the influential Jewish intellectual Hannah Arendt. One naturally wonders whether all these established scholars may have quietly known something that a naive young doctoral candidate such as Hilberg did not. His book only appeared in print because a Jewish immigrant whose business had suffered under the Nazis funded the entire publication.

I've provided Ohomenbot with it's reading assignment. Prove me wrong, Ohomenbot, and actually, read, research, and think about things before vomiting goodthink.

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

Over the years, Holocaust scholars and activists have very rightfully emphasized the absolutely unprecedented nature of the historical events they have studied. They describe how some six million innocent Jewish civilians were deliberately exterminated, mostly in gas chambers, by one of Europe’s most highly cultured nations, and emphasize that monstrous project was often accorded greater priority than Germany’s own wartime military needs during the country’s desperate struggle for survival. Furthermore, the Germans also undertook enormous efforts to totally eliminate all possible traces of their horrifying deed, with huge resources expended to cremate all those millions of bodies and scatter the ashes. This same disappearance technique was even sometimes applied to the contents of their mass graves, which were dug up long after initial burial, so that the rotting corpses could then be totally incinerated and all evidence eliminated. And although Germans are notorious for their extreme bureaucratic precision, this immense wartime project was apparently implemented without benefit of a single written document, or at least no such document has ever been located.

Lipstadt entitled her first book “Beyond Belief,” and I think that all of us can agree that the historical event she and so many others in academia and Hollywood have made the centerpiece of their lives and careers is certainly one of the most extremely remarkable occurrences in all of human history. Indeed, perhaps only a Martian Invasion would have been more worthy of historical study, but Orson Welles’s famous War of the Worlds radio-play which terrified so many millions of Americans in 1938 turned out to be a hoax rather than real.

The six million Jews who died in the Holocaust certainly constituted a very substantial fraction of all the wartime casualties in the European Theater, outnumbering by a factor of 100 all the British who died during the Blitz, and being dozens of times more numerous than all the Americans who fell there in battle. Furthermore, the sheer monstrosity of the crime against innocent civilians would surely have provided the best possible justification for the Allied war effort. Yet for many, many years after the war, a very strange sort of amnesia seems to have gripped most of the leading political protagonists in that regard.

Robert Faurisson, a French academic who became a prominent Holocaust Denier in the 1970s, once made an extremely interesting observation regarding the memoirs of Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle:

Three of the best known works on the Second World War are General Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe (New York: Doubleday [Country Life Press], 1948), Winston Churchill’s The Second World War (London: Cassell, 6 vols., 1948-1954), and the Mémoires de guerre of General de Gaulle (Paris: Plon, 3 vols., 1954-1959). In these three works not the least mention of Nazi gas chambers is to be found.

Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill’s Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle’s three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi “gas chambers,” a “genocide” of the Jews, or of “six million” Jewish victims of the war.

Given that the Holocaust would reasonably rank as the single most remarkable episode of the Second World War, such striking omissions must almost force us to place Eisenhower, Churchill, and De Gaulle among the ranks of “implicit Holocaust Deniers.”

Many others seem to fall into that same category. In 1981, Lucy S. Dawidowicz, a leading Holocaust scholar, published a short book entitled The Holocaust and the Historians, in which she denounced so many prominent historians for having totally ignored the reality of the Holocaust for many years following World War II. Indeed, discussion of that topic was almost entirely confined to the Jewish Studies programs which committed ethnic activists had newly established at numerous universities throughout the country. Although Lipstadt’s poor scholarly habits and hysterical style hardly impressed me, she appears to have been among the most successful academics who began a career in those ethnic studies departments, which suggests that their average quality was far below her own.

Meanwhile, Dawidowicz emphasized that mainstream histories often entirely omitted the Holocaust from their presentations:

But it is plain from the most cursory review of textbooks and scholarly works by English and American historians that the awesome events of the Holocaust have not been given their historic due. For over two decades some secondary school and college texts never mentioned the subject at all, while others treated it so summarily or vaguely as to fail to convey sufficient information about the events themselves or their historical significance.

With regard to serious scholarship, she notes that when Friedrich Meinecke, universally acknowledged as Germany’s most eminent historian, published The German Catastrophe in 1946, he harshly denounced Hitler as the leader of “a band of criminals” but made absolutely no mention of the Holocaust, which surely would have represented the height of such criminality. Major British accounts of Hitler and World War II by leading historians such as A.J.P. Taylor, H.R. Trevor-Roper, and Alan Bullock were almost as silent. A similar situation occurred in America as late as 1972 when the massive 1,237 page Columbia History of the World, having a Jewish co-editor, devoted a full chapter to World War II but confined its discussion of the Holocaust to just two short and somewhat ambiguous sentences. One almost gets a sense that many of these experienced professional historians regarded discussion of the Holocaust as a considerable embarrassment, a subject that they sought to avoid or at least completely minimize.

Dawidowicz even castigates Slaughterhouse-Five, the 1969 fictional masterpiece by Kurt Vonnegut, for its bald assertion that the firebombing of Dresden was “the greatest massacre in European history,” a claim that seems to reduce the Holocaust to non-existence.

The reason why everyone sought to minimize the holocaust in the first decades after the war was that it was the allies, not the Nazis, who caused the mass deaths in the work camps. Once food and medicine were cut off to the camps due to the allied advances beginning in late 1943, those interned succumbed to starvation and disease. Why did the allies cut off supplies? Simple, these work camps manufactured munitions for the Nazi war effort.

Now that everyone has forgotten who really caused the deaths in the camps, it's time to spin the fairy tale.

They're using the same script to sell climate catastrophe.

stereotomy says

Now that everyone has forgotten who really caused the deaths in the camps,

The people responsible for the deaths of the inmates are the people who rounded up those inmates and put them into those camps.

stereotomy says

Once food and medicine were cut off to the camps due to the allied advances beginning in late 1943

Exactly how did the allies cut off food and supplies to concentration camps in 1943? D-Day did not even happen until June 1944.

HeadSet says

Exactly how did the allies cut off food and supplies to concentration camps in 1943? D-Day did not even happen until June 1944.

Back then, the "allies" included the Soviet Union. They were very active in '43.

stereotomy says

Back then, the "allies" included the Soviet Union. They were very active in '43.

In Dec 1043, the Germans were still deep into the Soviet Union. So how did the Soviets cut off food and supplies to camps in Poland and Germany?