patrick.net

If you don't work nearby, choose a bit far east or south, the housing should be cheaper unless you inherit commie prop 13 housing.

FuckCCP89 says

Patrick says

Sunnyvale is actually quite sunny.

Sunnivale was completely chocked with traffic before covid. If you don't need to be close to Apple and such, paying premium for that particular location doesn't make much sense, imo.

Chicago Guy is retired and won't be commuting so traffic is probably going to be a non issue.

Booger says

Chicago Guy is retired and won't be commuting so traffic is probably going to be a non issue.

It's annoying nevertheless. One of my coworkers who lives there said that simple things like driving kids to a soccer practice which used to take 10 minutes were taking 40 and more because of all that stupid traffic.

Booger says

Chicago Guy is retired and won't be commuting so traffic is probably going to be a non issue.

Clearly you haven't lived here in recent years. Traffic is heavy and bad nearly all the time. Commute is even worse.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Booger says

Chicago Guy is retired and won't be commuting so traffic is probably going to be a non issue.

Clearly you haven't lived here in recent years. Traffic is heavy and bad nearly all the time. Commute is even worse.

And that's it. Depends on how you want to retire. My uncle and aunt just sit in their house here in IL. No point in moving to CA to do the same. Lifestyle is a biggie if you're going to move to CA and pay the high costs. If you're a homebody and like to just be home, it's probably not worth it.

FuckCCP89 says

Booger says

Chicago Guy is retired and won't be commuting so traffic is probably going to be a non issue.

It's annoying nevertheless. One of my coworkers who lives there said that simple things like driving kids to a soccer practice which used to take 10 minutes were taking 40 and more because of all that stupid traffic.

One of the many reasons we moved out of the bay area. Wine Country does have a little traffic during rush hours and touristy weekends, but traffic jams are unheard of if you stay clear of 101

I recently retired and, as I expected, not having to work or tote kids around at specific times makes the bay area much more pleasant because I can avoid the worst of the congestion and overcrowding. For example, most parks and hiking areas have no available parking at all during the weekends or in the evenings. I can now go in the morning during the week. No problem! Same goes with shopping at supermarkets or, heaven forbid, the Sunnyvale Costco.

In my area of Sunnyvale (94087), renting is vastly cheaper than buying. My $2+ MM shack would rent for less than $5k/month. If you bought my shack you'd be paying close to $2k/month just in property taxes! If I were moving to 94087 right now and I knew I would be staying a long time and I knew exactly where I wanted to live, I still wouldn't buy a place.

Redwood City and Sunnyvale both have "less desirable" areas, particularly if you want a "middle-class western living style" (at the $2MM price point). If I remember correctly, you probably want to avoid Redwood City between El Camino and 101. Sunnyvale also goes downhill as you go east, with the area east of 101 being somewhat sketchy.

As for costs, the $4.50/gallon gasoline and 9.25% sales tax really don't matter. Those high costs are dwarfed by housing costs and income tax. California's 9.3% income tax starts at $58k for singles and 2x that for married.

FuckCCP89 says

Sunnivale was completely chocked with traffic before covid. If you don't need to be close to Apple and such, paying premium for that particular location doesn't make much sense, imo.

Also, you can live in an area with bad schools. (Although, in my opinion, that probably means living in an area with bad parents, who might not make the best of neighbors.)

SunnyvaleCA says

I recently retired and, as I expected, not having to work or tote kids around at specific times makes the bay area much more pleasant because I can avoid the worst of the congestion and overcrowding. For example, most parks and hiking areas have no available parking at all during the weekends or in the evenings. I can now go in the morning during the week

Exactly. My experience nearly word for word.

SunnyvaleCA says

In my area of Sunnyvale (94087), renting is vastly cheaper than buying. My $2+ MM shack would rent for less than $5k/month. If you bought my shack you'd be paying close to $2k/month just in property taxes!

Same here except in my neighborhood in East SJ, prices about half. I wrote on a different thread before, extended immigrant families here, packed like rats into these sh*tshacks, pooling their money for the privilege of paying way more than $1k/month in property taxes, to say nothing of the other costs.

Someone buying in the zip code you cite for a typical retirement of about 20 years would pay $24k x 20 years = $480 k in property taxes, a sunk cost. Even if they sold at a profit, can't recapture the sunk cost of the property tax. But not really $480k in property taxes, because, guaranteed to go up 2% per year (Prop-13) unless the prices collapse. More like $0.5 M in sunk cost.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Someone buying in the zip code you cite [94087 — best part of Sunnyvale] for a typical retirement of about 20 years would pay $24k x 20 years = $480 k in property taxes, a sunk cost. Even if they sold at a profit, can't recapture the sunk cost of the property tax. But not really $480k in property taxes, because, guaranteed to go up 2% per year (Prop-13) unless the prices collapse. More like $0.5 M in sunk cost.

Not to mention that at the mere $2MM price point, you're looking at a 60-year-old shack in a nice neighborhood or a newer place in a cramped and extra-congested area. If you go the shack route you should assume $5k/year in maintenance and repairs if you do your own work and $15k/year if you pay for yard care, plumbing, roofing, hot water heater replacement, etc. Hey... anyone have any tips on upgrading my wiring to add grounding?

SunnyvaleCA says

you should assume $5k/year in maintenance and repairs

My sh*tshack was built about 40 years ago. I kept an excel sheet since the mid- 2000's of all those costs. It's been about $123k since I began keeping track. NONE of these are upgrades. Just maintenance and repair. So it's been about $8k/year.

But! Much of those costs were incurred 10-15 years ago, when stuff and labor were cheaper.

I don't view the maintenance and repair as sunk cost, because we get something in return, "habitability" which if we were landlording the place would be a legal requirement. Property tax is more like Sunk Cost, though.

SunnyvaleCA says

anyone have any tips on upgrading my wiring to add grounding?

Does your house have armored cable?
If so, the armor should already be grounded and you can use that to ground your outlets. Electric code allows this.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Someone buying in the zip code you cite for a typical retirement of about 20 years would pay $24k x 20 years = $480 k in property taxes, a sunk cost. Even if they sold at a profit, can't recapture the sunk cost of the property tax. But not really $480k in property taxes, because, guaranteed to go up 2% per year (Prop-13) unless the prices collapse. More like $0.5 M in sunk cost.

For all we know Chicago Guy has enough money to retire in Caligulan splendor.

Booger says

Does your house have armored cable?
If so, the armor should already be grounded and you can use that to ground your outlets. Electric code allows this.

Sadly, not armored, except that the 240 volt running to the dryer runs through cast iron pipe.

I should think that if it were armored everywhere, snaking new wires would be easier, too.

B.A.C.A.H. says

I don't view the maintenance and repair as sunk cost, because we get something in return, "habitability"

True. But, when people say the average 3/2 house in 94087 is "only" $2MM, they should also realize that that "average" house is 60+ years old and will incur and additional, continuous high maintenance cost. If you want the new (or "newish") hose with lower maintenance for the next 20 years, you'll be paying $2.5MM or more up front (and an additional $5k in yearly property taxes). Definitely no free lunch either way.

Booger says

B.A.C.A.H. says

Someone buying in the zip code you cite for a typical retirement of about 20 years would pay $24k x 20 years = $480 k in property taxes, a sunk cost. Even if they sold at a profit, can't recapture the sunk cost of the property tax. But not really $480k in property taxes, because, guaranteed to go up 2% per year (Prop-13) unless the prices collapse. More like $0.5 M in sunk cost.

For all we know Chicago Guy has enough money to retire in Caligulan splendor.

Nope, limited to a sh*tshack built about 40-70 years ago.

Chicago_Guy says

Nope, limited to a sh*tshack built about 40-70 years ago.

Please don't think about buying a place here till you've lived here for a while as a renter, explored the area, made your own social network (and not just through the lens of your daughter's nuclear family), form your own ideas about the region.

Don't listen too much to ®ealtors. They don't care about you.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Just maintenance and repair. So it's been about $8k/year.

Was the place trashed when you got it? That's an insane amount annually. Most major appliances last 20 years no problem if maintained. Pool liner and A/C condenser are the two biggies coming up for me, but that's $6k tops here in IL over one year. Re-roofed for $6k about 4 years ago. I can do most of the work on the house. $8k/yr seems a bit high unless you have a 3k sq/ft house.

WookieMan says

B.A.C.A.H. says

Just maintenance and repair. So it's been about $8k/year.

Was the place trashed when you got it? That's an insane amount annually. Most major appliances last 20 years no problem if maintained. Pool liner and A/C condenser are the two biggies coming up for me, but that's $6k tops here in IL over one year. Re-roofed for $6k about 4 years ago. I can do most of the work on the house. $8k/yr seems a bit high unless you have a 3k sq/ft house.

My re-roof was 2x that because I went from double layer of wood (cedar shakes over cedar shingles) to composite. That requires removing the old roof and lattice holding it in place and adding plywood, which has gotten extremely expensive. That was 2004. Now that would cost 3x. Although my house is only 1555 sq feet, it's all one floor and it has large covered patio. So the roof really is as big or bigger than your typical 3k sq ft house.

WookieMan says

Was the place trashed when you got it? That's an insane amount annually.

California pricing.

WookieMan says

Was the place trashed when you got it? That's an insane amount annually.

SunnyvaleCA says

If you go the shack route you should assume $5k/year in maintenance and repairs if you do your own work and $15k/year if you pay for yard care, plumbing, roofing, hot water heater replacement, etc

Booger says

California pricing.

Like fellow Bayarean Sunnyvale said, it's in the range of ordinary maintenance and repair for our region for a sh*tshack. Sunnyvale just about nailed it, we've been in the middle of the range probably because we did some work ourselves and hired out for some of it.

Was it trashed when we bought it? No, it passed muster with inspections from third party inspectors our real estate lawyer connected us with. (because we don't trust ®ealtors). Like Sunnyvale said, just normal everyday maintenance and repair for sh*tshack tract homes in our region.

And like Booger said, at California prices.

SunnyvaleCA says

That requires removing the old roof and lattice holding it in place and adding plywood, which has gotten extremely expensive. That was 2004

Our similar such job was in 2007.

Isn't Mountain View a little nicer than Sunnyvale?
My recollection isn't great since I only was over there a few times.
The problem as others stated above is taxes.
I cheaped out and bailed to a no tax state.
I would choose to be closer to San Francisco if I lived on the peninsula.
I would not choose the East Bay for several reasons.

clambo says

I would not choose the East Bay for several reasons.

Lots of folks who choose the East Bay can afford to do so, because so many others ruled it out, out of hand, without doing the research.

B.A.C.A.H. says

clambo says

I would not choose the East Bay for several reasons.

Lots of folks who choose the East Bay can afford to do so, because so many others ruled it out, out of hand, without doing the research.

Choosing peninsula over east bay is mostly a price verses commuting choice. With cower-in-place , maybe only having to go to work 2x per week, and the private bus service run by large high-tech companies, perhaps the commuting problems of east bay are eased. That said, the east bay is getting built up a lot too. If you live in the east bay, your commute to Apple or Google could be at least 1 hour door-to-door (buy bus or but train + shuttle) each way each day. It would be more if you are attempting by car. If you live near the campus, you could walk or bicycle for 15 minutes each way or drive for 10 minutes. That's a huge difference, especially if you have an uneven schedule due to kids or other requirements.

Buy a nice mobile home (aka HUD compliant manufactured house on wheels) and park it in you daughters backyard (or front yard for that matter). This assumes your daughter owns her Mountain View house and lot. California's new ADU laws allow a manufactured home to be used as an accessory dwelling unit. BTW, "parking" it in the front yard would only work if they have no backyard and the ADU is less than 800 sq.ft.

SunnyvaleCA says

Choosing peninsula over east bay is mostly a price verses commuting choice

Yes.

If you want to avoid being around the plebeians like so many who post here do, there are some fabulous places in the East Bay. Orinda, Oakland Hills. If you like Mandarin/Brahmin elites for neighbors that's all you'll have for wide swaths of Fremont. Leafy suburbs of Pleasanton and Walnut Creek have a superb quality of life. I've spent lots of time in these places visiting folks including close relatives. These places don't have the cache of the Peninsula but they are fabulous places to live (if commute can be worked out), at "less expensive" prices than the Peninsula.

hate Mountain View. Super crowded. San Mateo good weather I'm from there (I don't like it) but I wouldn't go further south unless it was Aptos area. At least San Mateo is close to SF(but that sucks now) and Half Moon Bay. The CSM farmers market is really good.

EBGuy says

Buy a nice mobile home (aka HUD compliant manufactured house on wheels) and park it in you daughters backyard

VETOED!
_ the Son in Law.

So I made the move the move to the Bay area in mid-March and purchased a SFH on a cul-de-sac. A neighbor that I have not met dropped a hand written
note into my mail box informing me she has gotten quotes for the replacement of 2 fence panels because the wood is rotting and one board is separating by 2 inches and someone could see into her yard (2 inch gap) and also enter her yard from our cul-de-sac. To deliver this note she had to walk about 5-6 minutes via surface streets to get to the cul-de-sac
where I am located. In the note, she would like me to split the costs 50/50 and she has gotten 2 quotes for the work. I sent her a text and pushed back that this
section of fence is of no benefit to me. I am fine with no fence along my driveway that faces the cul-de-sac.

In response, she has sent me a text informing me California has a Good Neighbor fence law that requires me to foot the cost 50/50.
What bugs me is that she unilaterally decides the fence needs replacing and gets quotes and then insists I need to pay half and decides what contractor is awarded the bid. And also informs me that work will begin in 30 days. My guess is that fence has been in that shape for a few
years and now she decides the new neighbor needs to help fix the fence. Welcome to the lovely state of California!!

Chicago_Guy says

In response, she has sent me a text informing me California has a Good Neighbor fence law that requires me to foot the cost 50/50.

I highly doubt there's a law on the books for that. Me thinks she's pulling shit out of her ass because she's broke and needs a minor repair. Is the fence on your lot or hers? If it is entirely on hers there's no way you'd be required to pay anything in any state I've been to.

If it's a shared fence, on the surveyed lot line then maybe there's something there. But if the fence is on your property it's yours and you don't have to repair. If it's on her property it is her problem. A law saying you have to fix something on someone else's property is unfathomable. Hell, lets have a good neighbor water heater law if we're going down that rabbit hole. The possibilities are endless.

I'd tell her to STFU. She can't lien your property so I'd just ignore it. I'm a dick a neighbor though if you pulled something like she's trying, so I would have already told her to fuck off.

@Chicago_Guy Please let us know what happens with that.

Chicago_Guy says

A neighbor that I have not met dropped a hand written
note into my mail box informing me she has gotten quotes for the replace

Illegal. Missed this part. Report her to the authorities. You can't touch people's mailboxes or put stuff in them.

You have a shit neighbor dude. Better to be aggressive and put her in her place. Otherwise she'll keep trying to walk all over you. Likely idle time and nothing to do on her end. So it won't stop. You cave on anything, a month later it will be something else.

I feel for ya. I don't see this neighbor relationship working. I'd turn into the aggressor in this situation. Take control. Weirdly some Karens are seeking that attention. You might have one on your hands with this. It gets them off so to speak.

WookieMan says

Illegal. Missed this part. Report her to the authorities. You can't touch people's mailboxes or put stuff in them.

You cannot hand deliver mail? Also that law exists, on a brief lookup. I don't think he should go nuclear on them, it's hard to recoup money from somebody even if you have grounds, so you can just politely refuse while investigating. This neighbor may be annoying but not code red style. I'd stay diplomatic if you're going to live next to that person, has many advantages (crime watch etc.)

Chicago_Guy says

2 fence panels because the wood is rotting and one board is separating by 2 inches and someone could see into her yard (2 inch gap) and also enter her yard from our cul-de-sac.

Does someone even need to be hired? Can this maybe be fixed with a few nails, and maybe a purchase of a piece of wood from home depot?

Sometimes some wood pieces on my fence separate from their backing post. Its very odd, and I think it has something to do with temperature change / wood moisture causing expansion which ejects the nail a little each day until it falls out. I got tired of having to hammer them back so I added screws on the problem pieces.

Is their complaint even valid IYO, or are they being petty? I mean, all fences rot, but that doesn't mean they need replacement. And I would never replace a fence because a single or few boards need work unless the rest of the fence is really in poor shape too.

Chicago_Guy says

Welcome to the lovely state of California!!

Lol! It only gets better from here on out, NOT! If you seek comfort and succor from neighbors, much less enjoyable bonhomie, rather than demands, confrontations, surveillance, and petty lawsuits, California isn't the place. I joke that the homeowner's associations keep stacks of restraining order complaints for their residents. My hood in Santa Cruz has had at least five restraining orders and a few lawsuits in a grouping of about 52 dwellings since we have been here. People will fight over inches.

Since not many people out here seem to have positive ways of dealing with neighbors and other people, they will seek attention through assault and conflict. You eventually realize how many crazy people and grifters there actually are. Somebody is always pulling some kind of shit for no apparent reason. As long as you aren't involved, one might consider it kind of an entertainment feature.

I have two friends who were born and raised here, native Bay Area Californians. You are fine if you are accepted as part of their clique, but both of these guys are perpetually in some kind of hot water. They are either 'going after' somebody, or somebody is 'going after' them, and neither seem to enjoy any prolonged period of time in which they aren't in one state or the other. Much of the entertainment of being with them is talking about their self imposed conflicts.

There are nice people, but you have to look for them and try to hold on to them, but so many people move around it can be difficult. I always thought that movie 'Rebel Without A Cause' where the kid is immediately swarmed by nasty, knife wielding school thugs was pretty accurate of the newcomer experience, until you get aligned with your own gang or clique.

I really do think the air in California makes people crazy, I think of it as the ghosts of the Pacific.

Chicago_Guy says

It sounds nuts but I am thinking about moving from Chicago to the Bay area to be near my only child and her family in Mountain View.

Awesome, families should live together.

Say @Chicago_Guy did you ever move to the Bay Area?

If so, want to meet up in Martinez with Onvacation, richwicks, and myself?

https://patrick.net/post/1343212/2022-01-04-million-post-party?start=94#comment-1869437

mell says

This neighbor may be annoying but not code red style. I'd stay diplomatic if you're going to live next to that person, has many advantages (crime watch etc.)

I disagree. A shitty neighbor will continue to be that. I confront. Will 100% of the time.

It's not about being a dick. It's about control. I've done it. I've gotten at 55+ year old neighbor to walk his Harley down the street because he pissed me off. He is/was bigger than me too. I knew his pipes were illegal and I had a decibel meter and recorded it.

Fact is a shitty neighbor is just an angry person looking to piss people off. Outsmart them. It generally is really easy to do. They're simpletons. They think they're invincible.

I'm fortunate to have decent neighbors. Besides the Harley guy. I torched the guy in front of my kids and nephew. Kind of a bad example. Fuck it. When you idle a Harley for 15 minutes at 6am, get fucked. And then start revving it before you leave. Just die already.

And yes, definitely cannot literally touch another persons mailbox. We did get 34 beers in our one friends mailbox. USPS still put the mail in. One of the funnier things I've done. 34 beers and some mail. That chick was probably like what the fuck is going on. Whatever... I'll jam it in. lol.