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“Never use a debit card”


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2019 Aug 27, 12:19pm   2,598 views  52 comments

by tovarichpeter   ➕follow (6)   💰tip   ignore  

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/27/debit-cards-are-dangerous-warns-fraud-expert-and-ex-con-artist-frank-abagnale.html

Don't use a debit card
Want to avoid identity theft? Never, ever use a debit card. I don't own one. I never have and I never will. I don't recommend them to anyone — not my family, not my friends, not you.

As I said at the Google talk, a debit card is certainly and truly the worst financial tool ever given to the American consumer. Why? It's simple: Every time you use one, you put your money and your bank account at risk.

Instead, use a credit card. I use one for practically all of my purchases, even when I'm traveling abroad. With credit cards, federal law limits my liability if there's an unauthorized use of my card.

When I use a credit card, I'm spending the credit card company's money every day until I pay my bill at the end of the month. Meanwhile, my money is earning interest in a bank account.

A debit card is certainly and truly the worst financial tool ever given to the American consumer.
Frank Abagnale
fraud expert and ex-con artist
If there's a large data breach (and you know that there will be) and a criminal does somehow get my credit card number and charges $1 million on it, I'm protected and my credit card company will cancel the card and send a new one within the next couple of days.

I won't be responsible for any purchases made. If the same thing happens and the criminals get my debit card information, however, I could lose the money in my bank account and have a difficult and lengthy time recovering it.

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2   Patrick   2019 Aug 27, 12:31pm  

I agree as well. Every time I open a bank account, I tell the bank NO DEBIT CARD PLEASE.

Then all of the (ALL of them) eventually send me a debit card anyway.

Then I switch banks and start over.
3   Tenpoundbass   2019 Aug 27, 12:34pm  

I only use a Debit card, and I'm prejudice as fuck about where I shop, eat and do business more so than ever.
Well actually I never was like this until Obama created this America.

I walk into a business and if someone looks like anyone on Videos that would spit on food, lick ice creme, serve me food with their Hepatitis doo doo fingers, or skim my card. I turn right the fuck around.
I primarily do 95% of all of my business with the same stores, restaurants, and gas stations.

It's safe to say, I know the owners of every business I do business with. They don't store my information on the cloud.
4   georgeliberte   2019 Aug 27, 12:42pm  

All my credit cads also pay cash back, a nice bonus at year end.
5   Tenpoundbass   2019 Aug 27, 12:42pm  

My card used to get hit about once a year, the last time they hacked my Metro PCS account and then hacked my bank from there.
I had to close it down and open a new bank account. Since then I have started being very particular about where I shop and where I use my card.

I have never lost money taken out by hackers. I always get my money back. What pisses me off, the Police and Banks unwillingness to prosecute or go after any people illegally using your card. They are hell bent on protecting their privacy more than finding out who they were. It's sickening. Just like Insurance fraud, ID fraud is encouraged, but when we see just how many Anarchist Commie Scumbags work in Government and Corporations, who's job it is to go after people like these. They are more likely to DOX you and leak your name out on the Web, rather than try to catch a crook.

I might have been targeted by a Deep state spook or activist working at MPCS, as sophisticated as the hack was and what they did. It was definitely an inside job and had to have been coordinated by inside people from my bank and MPCS. They can't pull it again because I now have a lock on my account. I have to go see person at the bank now to do anything other than take $300 a day from the ATM.
6   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Aug 27, 12:57pm  

georgeliberte says
All my credit cads also pay cash back, a nice bonus at year end.


I got that too, sadly that bonus is already priced into the price of the products with credit card fees that merchant pays.
7   EBGuy   2019 Aug 27, 1:17pm  

tovarichpeter says
Meanwhile, my money is earning interest in a bank account.

That is funny.... otherwise I agree with the rest of what the author wrote.
A number of years back I called Wells Fargo and told them to put on their "never send me a debit card" list and they have been true to their word.
8   Booger   2019 Aug 27, 3:04pm  

One of my credit cards was hacked on Sunday. Got an email alert for a $666 transfer to Pay Pal that I didn't make. Called the credit card company and have a new card already. Whomever did this isn't getting paid! If you don't already have email or text alerts for all transactions for any amount, you should.
9   Shaman   2019 Aug 27, 5:11pm  

Tenpoundbass says
What pisses me off, the Police and Banks unwillingness to prosecute or go after any people illegally using your card. They are hell bent on protecting their privacy more than finding out who they were.


The time my checks were stolen and the thieves made themselves up a drivers license with my name on it, then went all over town writing bad checks...
I was burgularized at the same time, and when i noticed the checks were missing I called the bank and cancelled them. A week or so later, I started getting nasty calls from vendors. Why had my checks bounced? I referred them to the police report, and inquired about the identity of the thieves. I really wanted to know who had ripped me off, but the vendors were all very unhelpful. They threatened me, but when I offered to come down and try to identify the person on their video camera they demurred. They were super involved with protecting the identity of the thieves, and so I told them too bad and fuck off.
10   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 27, 5:31pm  

Debit cards have maximums, and they have similar protections as credit cards: the banks will pay you back contested transactions for example.

Of course there is no debt involved.
So?
11   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 27, 5:35pm  

tovarichpeter says
When I use a credit card, I'm spending the credit card company's money every day until I pay my bill at the end of the month. Meanwhile, my money is earning interest in a bank account.


Right because we all know the average Americans makes money by borrowing money, right?
We all know the average American has the discipline to fully the balance at the end of the month, right?
What are average rates on credit card debts?
What is the average balance on American credit cards?
Would Americans have such debts if they were all paying with debit cards?
Think about the kind of advice this really is.
12   EBGuy   2019 Aug 27, 6:47pm  

@HS Exhibit 1: Trout
13   GNL   2019 Aug 27, 7:34pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
the banks will pay you back contested transactions for example.

This is true. My debit card has been hit 3 times. Every time, I simply went to the bank, filled out a report and my $$ was replaced in 5-7 days.

I can't imagine having to change my bank every time the bank sends me a debit card like Patrick does.
14   clambo   2019 Aug 27, 9:47pm  

I use a credit card anywhere it can be used; groceries, gasoline, stuff, medical, hotels, air fare, etc.

I only use a debit card to remove cash from the ATM which is not very often. Generally it's to have some walking around money in case someone doesn't accept my credit card and I want a cup of coffee or something.
15   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 8:05am  

Heraclitusstudent says
Debit cards have maximums, and they have similar protections as credit cards: the banks will pay you back contested transactions for example.


Yup and when you need to go over that maximum, say for paying for a hotel stay, you're fucked. Mother in law just recently had this happen in July. Set it up to pay on arrival and was denied due to the limit. Chase wouldn't allow her to go over the daily limit to pay for the hotel (week long stay). Had plenty of cash in the account. They wouldn't budge.

Moral of the story, if you can't use your own damn cash, I don't want that product. What should have been a simple 5 minute check in at a hotel turned into an hour ordeal with phone calls and having to run to the bank.

Also, fraud protection on debit card varies from bank to bank. Some will reimburse, others won't. Check the fine print. Had a buddy lose $800 on a physical purchase in Brazil. He had documented proof that he wasn't in Brazil and never had been in his life, but they still wouldn't pay it back. Needless to say, he changed banks. Fortunately this guy could afford it, but a lot of people would have been really fucked.

Also always value your time. I'm weird and actually have a spreadsheet of our hourly rate of earning for every hour of the day, including sleeping. If we were in my MIL situation, that hour of dicking around with debit card bull shit would have cost us about $120 for the time wasted. I don't pay that much in interest on my CC's in a year, ever.

clambo in comment 15 above is spot on with how debit cards should be used. To get cash when you need it and even then make sure it's not some gas station ATM. Pay the fee at another banks branch if you have to. They at least are generally better with securing their ATM's.

Heraclitusstudent says
We all know the average American has the discipline to fully the balance at the end of the month, right?


If you don't/can't pay the balance in full you're likely broke or a moron. Yes, which is most people. Credit cards are exponentially more valuable to use and secure than debit. I've never done the full math of it, but I get back anywhere from $3-6k in reward every year from CC's. I think I'm on 3 years now of not paying for a flight for my family of 4 (average of 4 flights per year whole fam and 2 with wife and I). Should book 12 flights this year just for myself. This year might be the first where we break the $6k mark. That's tax free too. So it's technically closer to a $10k bonus when you factor federal and state taxes.

It's 1,000% undeniable that CC's are better than debit. Just have to be intelligent I suppose.
16   GNL   2019 Aug 28, 8:46am  

WookieMan says
Heraclitusstudent says
Debit cards have maximums, and they have similar protections as credit cards: the banks will pay you back contested transactions for example.


Yup and when you need to go over that maximum, say for paying for a hotel stay, you're fucked. Mother in law just recently had this happen in July. Set it up to pay on arrival and was denied due to the limit. Chase wouldn't allow her to go over the daily limit to pay for the hotel (week long stay). Had plenty of cash in the account. They wouldn't budge.

Moral of the story, if you can't use your own damn cash, I don't want that product. What should have been a simple 5 minute check in at a hotel turned into an hour ordeal with phone calls and having to run to the bank.

Also, fraud protection on debit card varies from bank to bank. Some will reimburse, others won't. Check the fine print. Had a buddy lose $800 on ...

Good comment.
17   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 9:18am  

WineHorror1 says
WookieMan says
Heraclitusstudent says
Debit cards have maximums, and they have similar protections as credit cards: the banks will pay you back contested transactions for example.


Yup and when you need to go over that maximum, say for paying for a hotel stay, you're fucked. Mother in law just recently had this happen in July. Set it up to pay on arrival and was denied due to the limit. Chase wouldn't allow her to go over the daily limit to pay for the hotel (week long stay). Had plenty of cash in the account. They wouldn't budge.

Moral of the story, if you can't use your own damn cash, I don't want that product. What should have been a simple 5 minute check in at a hotel turned into an hour ordeal with phone calls and having to run to the bank.

Also, fraud protection on debit card varies from bank to bank....


My MIL didn't have a credit card either. I was like WTF! So now she has one and I've got 10,000 referral points ;) lol.
18   ForcedTQ   2019 Aug 28, 9:59am  

Heraclitusstudent says
tovarichpeter says
When I use a credit card, I'm spending the credit card company's money every day until I pay my bill at the end of the month. Meanwhile, my money is earning interest in a bank account.


Right because we all know the average Americans makes money by borrowing money, right?
We all know the average American has the discipline to fully the balance at the end of the month, right?
What are average rates on credit card debts?
What is the average balance on American credit cards?
Would Americans have such debts if they were all paying with debit cards?
Think about the kind of advice this really is.


This is exactly why Dave Ramsey exists in his current capacity. There are too many foolish ignorant jackasses who get themselves into DEBT. His advice is to ONLY use a debit card if you HAVE to use a card, otherwise you should be using cash. Let's bring back USING CASH to be a societal norm!
19   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 10:12am  

ForcedTQ says
This is exactly why Dave Ramsey exists in his current capacity. There are too many foolish ignorant jackasses who get themselves into DEBT. His advice is to ONLY use a debit card if you HAVE to use a card, otherwise you should be using cash. Let's bring back USING CASH to be a societal norm!


I actually respect Dave Ramsey and the point he makes on 80-90% of financial topics and family financial strategies. That said, he's 100% wrong on credit cards. And it flies in the face of what he teaches.

If you can't manage paying a CC after a grace period and not incurring interest charges, you aren't going to be able to manage your finances without the credit card anyway. Using cash only won't help you. You are a loser at that point that cannot manage finances. There's no difference in saving $1,000 in a month to pay the credit card versus paying $1,000 cash. The net result is the same. If you don't have that discipline, there's not a chance you're going to be able to save. If anything, using a CC intelligently makes you a better saver in the long run.
20   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Aug 28, 10:23am  

What I've been doing is taking cash out at the bank and using cash. Bank has no clue what my transactions are, so they have no access to my data. And you can negotiate prices if you pay cash with smaller merchants and service jobs. It's much better.

I really recommend cash. Not credit cards, not debit, but simple cash.
21   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 10:52am  

FortWayneIndiana says
I really recommend cash. Not credit cards, not debit, but simple cash.


That's a tough one. My wife and I have many days a year where $1-2k is spent. While some of these vendors may take cash, I have zero interest in walking around with unsecured cash in my back pocket that can be stolen in a moment. And yes, even in a wallet it's unsecured. Outside of a vendor that is cash only, there's not one reason I can think of to use any other payment besides a credit card.

I've had the discussion/debate here before. I don't think there's been a successful counterpoint. And before anyone gets all butthurt, I don't care if you use cash or debit. To each their own. Per the OP, debit cards are by FAR the worst way to transact. Cash being just behind it.

Also cash sales lead to fraud and tax evasion. You can't be against open borders, Chinese currency manipulation, etc. and be for using cash in my opinion. Cash transactions result in less tax revenue in a high percentage of cases it's used. If you want higher taxes, you're helping the cause.
22   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 28, 11:18am  

WookieMan says
Moral of the story, if you can't use your own damn cash, I don't want that product. What should have been a simple 5 minute check in at a hotel turned into an hour ordeal with phone calls and having to run to the bank.


Then you can use cash, or check, or yeah, even credit cards. If you use cash, debit cards are great for ATMs.
You can't blame the solution for doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

The point here is simple:
According to 2016 NerdWallet statistics, the average American household carries $16,061 in credit card debt .
Credit cards are a hell of fine prints, byzantine rules changing with time, fees up the wazoo, crazy interest rates, creepy credit bureaus spying, made up risks of identity theft for which the banks will then charge you for a solution.

I know you guys are all super smart, have figured it out, pay every month in full, and probably find ways to earn a few bucks out of it. That's great.
But these are pennies in comparison to what Americans as a people pay to banks for the simple right to use their money. This may be great for you, but this is not a solution that is good for the average American.

In fact clearly, credit cards, on balance, are an absolute evil:
- They are designed to erase the pain of giving away your money (because you don't see the money and the payment is not immediate but deferred)..
- They are designed to make it easy for people to buy stuff beyond their means.
- They are designed to hook up people and then drain them.
- And they deliberately target the people who really can't afford it.

I thought people like Patrick and tovarichpeter, and a web site with a slogan "Debt is slavery" (used to be) would see credit cards for what they are: the creepiest most obnoxious kind of debt.

That banks managed to make this shit the automatic payment solution, enforced this through credit bureaus, and in addition made you feel like geniuses because they give you back a cent of the cut THEY took on what YOU PAID, is really really pathetic and sad.
23   EBGuy   2019 Aug 28, 12:14pm  

As a counterpoint, credit cards offer an example of the extremem democratization of capital. Many a successful business -- that otherwise wouldn't have seen the light of day -- has been "financed" on back of plastic. In the American system, failure is an option as Chapter 7/13 allows you to live to fight another day.
24   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 12:32pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
Credit cards are a hell of fine prints, byzantine rules changing with time, fees up the wazoo, crazy interest rates, creepy credit bureaus spying, made up risks of identity theft for which the banks will then charge you for a solution.


I've not been charged $1 in fees, interest, fraudulent charges, etc. in 18 years of credit card usage. It's not complicated. It's pure laziness and stupidity on the users end if you get charged with any of the aforementioned.

Heraclitusstudent says
They are designed to erase the pain of giving away your money (because you don't see the money and the payment is not immediate but deferred)


Money is money man. Money spent on a credit card is money. There's no design here. It's called common sense. It's unfortunate that our public schools have failed miserably in teaching kids about this stuff.

Heraclitusstudent says
I thought people like Patrick and tovarichpeter, and a web site with a slogan "Debt is slavery" (used to be) would see credit cards for what they are: the creepiest most obnoxious kind of debt


It doesn't become debt in my opinion until interest is charged. It's up to you to not let it become debt. It's an interest free, deferred payment for whatever the clearly stated grace period is. Spend what you have within reason. Pretty simple. Then pay it off. Is personal responsibility a thing of the past or something?

Heraclitusstudent says
That banks managed to make this shit the automatic payment solution, enforced this through credit bureaus, and in addition made you feel like geniuses because they give you back a cent of the cut THEY took on what YOU PAID, is really really pathetic and sad.


The banks set up a system where I can profit off morons that can't balance a checkbook. I'm not a genius, just taking the easy pickings. Anyone can do it if they have any financial sense. Banks and credit cards are here to stay. I prefer not to throw a pity party and take advantage of what's right in front of me. Don't use a credit card for all I care. There's no financial argument that cash or debit are better than using a credit card unless you're awful with money.
25   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 12:42pm  

EBGuy says
In the American system, failure is an option as Chapter 7/13 allows you to live to fight another day.


And it's a good system for those that don't abuse it. As you said, some great inventions and ideas have come from someone's personal American Express card. And I'm sure people have hung themselves over credit card debt.

Ultimately it's a risk, and it's stated that way with every credit card offer. Everyone knows heroin is a risk too, yet people still use. At the end of the day it comes down to personal responsibility in making that initial decision to do something that could backfire.

Unless you're being forced to take on credit debt or use heroin, the buck stops with you. End of story. Excuse making in America needs to stop. If you think Trump is the problem in your life, you are likely your own biggest problem. Stop the blame game. Banks aren't your friend, but you ultimately know what you're signing when it comes to a credit offer. And if you don't, learn to read.
26   clambo   2019 Aug 28, 12:48pm  

I've got my credit cards set up with automatic minimum payment in case I forget to do it so I don't get those $30 late fees.

I wanted to cancel a couple I had which I no longer use but someone said that lowers my credit score so I just keep them in a box.

I did run up one credit card a while ago and was lazy to pay it off because I didn't want to sell any of my stock mutual funds in this market and it's a tiny percent of my net worth. I decided to hell with it for a few months. I went traveling and etc. and ran it up. I inherited an IRA so when I will use the required distribution to pay it off. A bit of a waste but oh well.

Other people are becoming debt slaves for sure.

If you read the paper credit card statements now they have to disclose a lot if interesting stuff, like how many years you will need to pay if you pay just the minimum, how much total interest you will pay, etc. it's shocking.
27   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 28, 12:54pm  

WookieMan says
The banks set up a system where I can profit off morons that can't balance a checkbook.


You can't say the average man on the street is a moron. The fact is this is setup deliberately as a trap preying on normal human impulses, inertia and lack of attention.

You can't say that it is not possible to setup a card or phone based payment system that is ultra safe and allows you to access money from your account on a need basis. It is obviously possible. And it is possible to do it without any fees, and with total transparency.

It is even possible to do an "on demand" credit system that is not designed to entrap people.

But credit cards are obviously not designed to be a public good. It's not like banks have ways to make money from your deposits. It's not like they were not making shit loads of money before credit cards. But it's never enough.

The only way in my view to use a credit card is automatic full payment on a no annual fee card. Even then I probably should lock my credit.

But don't tell me how good this is. This is shit and unethical, as far as I'm concerned, and can't be recommended except for the lack of alternate solution.
28   RWSGFY   2019 Aug 28, 1:00pm  

I have a separate "sacrificial" checking account w/ a debit card. It doesn't allow overdraft - if there is not enough funds you get nothing. If I need to withdraw cash using an ATM I transfer the necessary funds from my main checking account (which doesn't have a debit card attached to it) via phone app.
29   RWSGFY   2019 Aug 28, 1:02pm  

WineHorror1 says
I can't imagine having to change my bank every time the bank sends me a debit card like Patrick does.


I'm surprised Pat hasn't ran out of banks yet.
30   EBGuy   2019 Aug 28, 1:42pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
This is shit and unethical, as far as I'm concerned, and can't be recommended except for the lack of alternate solution.

HS, if we had debtor's prisons, I'd think you'd have a point. But the fact that you can "reset to zero" at any point doesn't help your argument. Student loans however...
31   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 2:15pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
You can't say the average man on the street is a moron.


I will and did. Most men are idiots. Same with women. We focus too much during childhood on some of the dumbest shit "trying" to educate our kids in fields and topics that will be of no use to the average person. I can promise you, 9 out of 10 kids graduating high school don't understand how interest even works on a credit card statement, let alone a mortgage, which will likely be the biggest purchase of their life. They might know calculus, but they don't UNDERSTAND credit and the consequences.

There's a reason the statements have changed, to educate the stupid. This is pure fact. It's not that the banks were being sneaky, it's just people were too lazy or stupid to read what they were signing up for. And then when they got statements they didn't understand simple math and numbers on a sheet of paper. 80% of Americans are absolute morons while 20% are doing all the work. This is a fact of life. It's not a glass half full outlook, but it's the reality. I prefer to live in reality and not make excuses for the idiots.

Some of the smartest and brightest engineers I know, winners of national awards are complete dip shits when it comes to common sense. We're taught to books and tests and that supposedly equates to intelligence. Just because you can engineer a bridge, doesn't mean you can't rack up credit card debt. So when I say moron, it's specific to the field of personal finance. It's indisputable that most people suck with money. So they're morons. Any structure the bank creates, these people will still fuck up. It's in their DNA. And then, "nah, it's the banks fault I didn't read or be responsible."

Heraclitusstudent says
The only way in my view to use a credit card is automatic full payment on a no annual fee card.


Ok. I like the idea of automatic full payment, but that's common sense. Everyone "knows" they should do that when they get a CC. That's my whole point It's why I don't pay interest and only spend in credit what I have available in cash. Again, this isn't complicated.

Side note, annual fees look daunting, but you're missing out on some of the best cards for benefits if you shy away from annual fee cards. Paying an annual fee on a card could return enough in benefits to pay your electric bill or cable bill for the year. Some of my best cards are $450/yr and I get every bit of that back in credit, points and service. Don't hate the game, learn to understand the game.
32   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 28, 4:29pm  

WookieMan says

I will and did. Most men are idiots. Same with women. We focus too much during childhood on some of the dumbest shit "trying" to educate our kids in fields and topics that will be of no use to the average person. I can promise you, 9 out of 10 kids graduating high school don't understand how interest even works on a credit card statement


Look, it doesn't matter if you understand how rates work if the bank can change them at will and with limited notice, and if the bank can drown you into pages after pages of fine prints that most lawyer couldn't decrypt with seer stones on a good day.

The reality of large companies relations to consumers is the extreme asymmetry of information: On one side you have lawyers and phds in finance and psychology that are fine tuning their process, on the other side you have Joe schmoe, who rarely gets off the couch and even then, often only to get a new beer. No transparency, no good information on the goods and services and the market stops working.

Saying "most men are idiots" may be true in some sense, but it doesn't matter. The point is: it shouldn't matter. We are talking of the most primitive action: a disbursement from your own account. In a reasonable society, it should be sufficiently basic and fool proof that our man, Joe schmoe, should be able to conduct it without risking being entrapped and legally defrauded by some smart ass in a suit.

WookieMan says
Don't hate the game, learn to understand the game.

I understand what you're saying, but I do hate the game, and to the extent I can, I won't play it.
And the hell with their shitty benefits!
What a few hundred bucks? A bait? A bribe? They would have you dance like a bear in a circus for a few crumbs. This is undignified.
It's not worth 10 minutes of my time trying to understand the shitty rules their empty suits have setup.
Anyone with enough stand back understand this is not how money is made. This is not productive. This is a dispersion of focus and a spread of good energy into entropy. That is never to be recovered.
A plague on these people and their shitty benefits!
33   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 6:06pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
Look, it doesn't matter if you understand how rates work if the bank can change them at will and with limited notice


The whole point of my conversation here is that rates don't matter. You pay before the grace period is up. There can't be fine print to screw you. The average Joe is good at making excuses or wanting a boat with money he doesn't have. That's not a banks fault. That's an adulting problem that isn't taught to kids since all this easy credit has been introduced decades ago.

I'll state I don't like banks. I think if they're regulated well (one of the few things government should have their hands in) that they're a necessary evil. Ultimately I think it's a pure lack of education in this realm. That includes mortgages, stocks, 401k's, etc. If there was a minimum standard for financial knowledge, I'd guess 80-90% of people would fail that test. Having working in an industry where I saw people borrowing large amounts of money on a daily basis for 13 years, I can truthfully tell you it was pure ignorance on the borrowers fault. No one was defrauding anybody.

Heraclitusstudent says
What a few hundred bucks? A bait? A bribe? They would have you dance like a bear in a circus for a few crumbs. This is undignified.


Listen, I'm not going to fight your belief or understanding. I'm not talking a couple hundred bucks with these benefits. I will get the tax free equivalent of $10k in credit card benefits this year. And I won't pay a dime in interest and my annual fees are included in that number. Fact is we need more education in high school on credit and saving. Instead we have economics courses that talk about words and definitions, and not about how the real word actually exists.

And yes, me getting my points/cash back produces a ton of economic activity. And yes the banks hate me. By playing the game and doing it right, you're actually fucking them over and they lose money.
34   ForcedTQ   2019 Aug 28, 6:20pm  

The one key take away here: Don't live paycheck to paycheck. If you're going to use credit cards ALWAYS pay the statement balance before the due date, that way the card balance subject to interest charges resets to 0. Take all charges that you make and keep track of them within your budget. Yeah, and have a damn emergency fund for items that come up, that are ACTUAL EMERGENCIES! Don't use debt for those scenarios.
35   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 6:35pm  

Between now and the end of October.

MDW to SEA - 4 tickets @ $355/pp = $1,420 savings.
MDW to RDU - 4 tickets @ $241/pp = $964 savings.
MDW to SJU - 2 tickets @ $280/pp = $560 savings.

9/11 fees accounted for that are still paid with redeemed point flights as with all flights. $2,944 in free airline tickets in 60 days.

Outside of my initial research of the cards of maybe, maybe 1 hour. I've maybe spent an hour or two booking and researching these three flights (which anyone would have to do anyway). Let's just call it 5 hours to be conservative. I'll take $588/hr any day of the week (it's much higher). But I guess it's all bull shit and wrong.

Previous 2019 flights:

MDW to LIR - 4 tickets (Jan) This one is $2,000 to $2,500 no problem
MDW to CUN - 2 tickets (Feb)
MDW to GEG - 1 ticket (March)
MDW to HOU - 4 tickets (March)
MDW to STL - 1 ticket (May)
MSP to PNS - 4 tickets (July)

This is why I'm so annoying on this topic. It ludicrous how much money people are willing to throw away. Enjoy it I guess. You don't have to believe this, but it's 100% true. No BS. Use cash, debit is great, whatever. If you're responsible, there's zero argument against using a CC. None.
36   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 6:37pm  

Forgot a MDW to GEG - 1 ticket (August)
37   WookieMan   2019 Aug 28, 6:45pm  

ForcedTQ says
Yeah, and have a damn emergency fund for items that come up, that are ACTUAL EMERGENCIES! Don't use debt for those scenarios.


This is as important as anything. I'm an advocate for a 6 month emergency fund for the basics knowing you're going to have to cut back if the shit hits the fan. So no income whatsoever, just relying on that emergency fund. Everyone will hate it, but still have a credit card with enough of a credit limit for if there's an emergency during the emergency period. Things can domino if you hit a rough patch.

If you don't have the 6 months in savings, then don't even think about using a credit card. And then when you go to use it, make sure you've saved up 40% more additional than your average monthly budget prior to using the card in a more difficult to access account (hard now, but it's still doable). Then fucking earn some payback from the fucking banks. Stick it to 'em. Make them pay you for using their money. This isn't hard, just takes some discipline.
38   B.A.C.A.H.   2019 Aug 29, 7:42am  

personal
39   WookieMan   2019 Aug 29, 8:02am  

B.A.C.A.H. says
Chill, dude.


This is how forums work, dude. You make comments on a topic that was brought forth. If you want this to be a news link posting site only, take that up with Patrick.

So I read one of those comments and felt it was inaccurate. So I addressed Heraclitusstudent's comment. I don't believe I attacked him personally in any of the comments. Just made generalities about how American's complain about credit cards because they don't realize it's still money for some reason. That's not an excuse not to use credit cards, that's poor and stupid financial management. Is this not true?

Could I have been less harsh on my opinion, sure. I just get upset when people make excuses for for the lazy. Credit cards are a perfectly safe and the best way to pay for things. Not paying it off isn't an excuse to use one, that's user error.

There were also comments about the points/rewards, so I addressed that. Points are valuable, this is fact. Sometimes to get a point across you have to be extreme. You have to SHOW someone something. That's all I was doing. It wasn't a brag, it was to show value of CC points. If you took it as a brag, my apologies, not the intention. It was to make a point.

Frankly I feel like I'm being helpful. Most people don't understand these point systems and the benefits. But I guess if it's too hard to pay the money back that you knew you had to, that person likely won't understand points either. I'm honestly just trying to help put money back in peoples pockets and stick it to the banks. I figured that was kind of a theme here from my recollection...
40   WookieMan   2019 Aug 29, 9:57am  

I'll be done highjacking this after this post ;) Know what you're getting into! This is what turned me on to the points game in my college years. It's a good watch if you have the time. 10:25ish, that little round table interview part is my point. People are stupid. They even know they're stupid yet keep doing it. It's why I'm harsh on the topic. There's no excuse for doing something you know is wrong. You cannot blame a person or business for your own stupidity. I guess I'm just crazy...
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/showscredit/

I didn't test the link, but if you search "PBS Frontline Secret History of the Credit Card" you should find it.

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