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On Social disintegration, mass shootings and Tribalism


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2019 Aug 4, 10:05pm   4,746 views  21 comments

by Heraclitusstudent   ➕follow (8)   💰tip   ignore  

You see the signs of a social disintegration all around us:
- suicides, depressions keep increasing, as is the use of drugs.
- the most frequent answer to "how many friends do you have?" is 0.
- frequent mass shootings, apparently often by extremists of various confessions.
- frayed political discourse, highlighted by the Trump circus.
- collapsing relations between genders: feminism, red pill, MGTOW, men boinking hoes.
- anger everywhere: feminists mad at men, strident socialists mad at the rest of society, old conservative farts mad at everything on the left.

All these appear to be independent idiosyncrasies of modern society. Not just the US. Europe is pretty bad too.

In my view these are all the result of a simple fact: people do not feel they belong to the society around them. They do not have the social relations or social support when they need it. They are isolated. Tribeless.

The way the current system works makes it difficult to maintain such relations:
- Live away from your family. The roles of your parents and relatives in your life basically stops when you move to the university.
- Spend most of your time at work. The corporate environment is mind numbing and soul crushing. Detached from any identifiable human motivations.
- come home and crash in front of a Hollywood artificial adrenaline shot or some decerebrating TV.
So the background is already very difficult.

But maybe the worst part is called "the fight against tribalism".
Tribalism is identified as "out group vs in group" and rightly recognized as a virulent source of human conflict.
However it is also the source of:
- belonging (to the group)
- security (helping each other)
- purpose (working for something greater than oneself)
- meaning (narratives)
- social relations.

Tribes can be religious, churches, political (as seen on this forum), nationalistic, sport teams, companies, families, etc.... Most human beings should be part of several "tribes".

But our dear elite is doing everything it can to destroy any trace of tribalism.
Because you see, tribalism is making trade difficult (if you asking what's in for you). Mass immigration is impossible if you have strong tribalism because this is perceived as an intrusion.

Our dear elite sees the world as one humanity made of isolated, tribeless human beings. This is why a movie like "First man" will not show the American flag. This would flatter a national identity (that's bad) and make it harder to sell it in other countries (which have their own healthier tribalism). So we should be welcoming of all. We shouldn't discriminate - ever. i.e. we shouldn't differentiate between people in your group and out of your group. We should not make any foreigners feel bad by being proud of our national identity.

The problem is that human beings psychological well being will always be very limited without tribes.

The problem of this is that countries exist only because of their inner tribalism. Armies are made of soldiers ready to die for their countries, if they believe they belong there. If they believe the other men in the tribe will also be ready to do the same for them. Is that true today? Security for human beings has always been synonymous with being part of a strong tribe of people sharing your beliefs and values.

The problem is if you remove tribes, then people will find new ones, based on random groups on the Internet, and with random, often toxic, narratives. SJW, Antivax, MGTOW, white nationalism, etc, etc....This is exactly the game Putin's propaganda is doing: supporting all divisive tribes in the West. And we are far more vulnerable to that we can imagine. People find relations, and meaning, investing themselves in what are essentially cults.

The recent cases of shooting are by people feeling alienated from the society around them and reaching the conclusion there is no path in front of them but aggression. Look closely: they are all the same. And this is just one facet of the problem.

The problem, finally, is that other countries are not disarming their own tribalisms. Europe for example is far more vulnerable to larger more vibrant tribes like Islam than they imagine.

The entire thing is a very sad case of misunderstanding of what humanity is.

Comments 1 - 21 of 21        Search these comments

1   BayArea   2019 Aug 4, 10:20pm  

Very thoughtful post, will say more tomorrow
2   komputodo   2019 Aug 4, 11:17pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
In my view these are all the result of a simple fact: people do not feel they belong to the society around them. They do not have the social relations or social support when they need it. They are isolated. Tribeless.

A direct result of "diversity"?
3   HeadSet   2019 Aug 5, 6:19am  

My brother-in-law: "It's going to get worse before it gets nasty."

You are getting nasty with your Brother-in-Law?
4   Reality   2019 Aug 5, 6:20am  

Beware what you wish for.

Suicide bombing by the two "sub-tribes" of Muslims (Sunnis vs. Shiites) against each other take place far more frequently than the combination of false-flag operations and suicide-by-police mass-shootings.

Tribal "nationalism" might get people agitated to start wars when they (mistakenly) believe they can be home by Christmas, but once caught up in prolonged fighting, most people behave according to their desire to survive and to get promoted (and avoiding getting shot for desertion). Both the Soviets and the Germans had much stronger tribal/nationalistic instincts than Anglo-Saxon nations did, but both had to resort to draconian "death to the deserters" policies to keep their soldiers fighting. When the side was doing well advancing on the battlefield, the opportunities to loot and rape (at relatively little personal risk) and getting promoted were sufficient to keep soldiers moving forward; that can be explained by personal profit motives, not necessarily tribal loyalty.

The false-flag operations are obviously results of political agenda, such as banning guns. The suicides-by-police and general depression (evidenced by high rates of drug addiction and game addiction) among the youths are results of having the government and large corporations taking up larger and larger percentage of the economy thereby resulting in a less productive economy creating less opportunities for the youths. The policy curative should be more civilian ownership of guns (so anyone starting shooting at random would get shot quickly, thereby discouraging would-be shooters to begin with; an armed society is a polite society), and lowering of taxes and especially employment barriers (such as the bans on entry-level wages and the bans on new businesses not meeting artificial licensing requirement designed to safe-guard existing monopolies and oligopolies from competition).

BTW, I'm not advocating government-sponsored "multiculturalism" at all. IMHO, only the market place can decide how much diversity is beneficial. In a centralized economy/society, even the most monocultural tribes/societies had little difficulty finding party lines across which to indulge mutual slaughter and extermination. The government promotion of "multiculturalism" in the last few decades has been little more than trying to induce a tribal back-lash in order to sustain Collectivism in both phases.
5   zzyzzx   2019 Aug 5, 7:57am  

Democrats don't understand that laws don't stop bullets.
6   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Aug 5, 10:02am  

It is a result of diversity.

Imagine you're socially challenged. In the world of the 50s, you only have to learn some rules, and you can get along.

In the world of today, there are diverse competing social norms, as we saw with the Judeo-Bolshevik who wouldn't let the guy get her luggage from the overhead in the other thread. Imagine having to navigate that as one of the many men and some females who are social IQ challenged.

And even for normal people, it's an exhausting, confusing mess.

Without cultural/social norms that are universally accepted and enforced/promulgated in common social contexts...
7   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 5, 11:33am  

Diversity is where the confusion is.
Most large countries are bound to have a mix of ethnicity. This by itself is not a problem as long as they have common values, common beliefs, common culture, and common narratives that guide them.
White supremacy is a toxic and divisive belief that cannot serve a country like the US.
On the other hand, people need to be sufficiently alike that they trust the others and work together. They need some sort of common identity.

If you have a massive inflow of foreigners, with different cultures so that people that are here live it as an intrusion, then people lose the sense of belonging. They lose the trust of people in the street. They lose the trust in institutions.

Then they fall back on their own tribes, which they will always find online to fill the gap.
8   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 5, 11:37am  

Over 2 days, 34 people died in mass shootings.
Over the same time, around 250 people Xed themselves - with enough decency not to take anyone else with them.
9   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Aug 5, 12:16pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
White supremacy is a toxic and divisive belief that cannot serve a country like the US.


But more importantly, endless diversity and Clown World social norms generated by the Kreative Klass fuels a Reaction. The only striking thing about it is it hasn't been more vicious and better organized.

We've let the Bohemians dictate (as in create and enforce, not just influence) Social Norms, this has to stop. Literally dictate, most pronounced through Social media and new Corporate and Institutional Rules that directly contravene established norms held by the vast majority. Thunderously and contemptuously anti-democratic.

The example of the EEOC unilaterally changing "Sex" to "Gender Identity" w/o Congressional or even Presidential input, when determining how employers can regulate dress is one. I do not want a man in a beard, with lipstick and high heels, at a relative or friend's funeral, making a Clown World of a Sober, Sad Moment, with the employer powerless to stop it. Gender Dyphorics, the mentally ill, are being catered to, to the point they can shit on Funerals and let everybody know "Their Power".

States need to define their State Laws as Sex, not Gender Identity, based. We also need an Executive Order directing Government Agencies only to consider likewise. Otherwise, there is a huge burden on everybody to conform to any individual's unquantifiable, unverifiable whims.

Just before Trump, there was a huge push from Slate to Salon to TedTalks (Google), pushing "Intergenerational Relationships". In fact Snapchat just announced an "Love has no age Limit" category. It's clear from the writings going back as early as the 60s what the Endgame of the LGBTQ+ Inside Activists is: Get Pedophilia to be just another "Sexual Preference", with the perps protected by the law, rather than the law protecting the victims.

That will be a red line, and there will be an interesting struggle between the Childless Kreative Klass and those with Children.

Our social problems are a result of the 60s-70s chickens coming home to roost.
10   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 5, 12:25pm  

HonkpilledMaster says
We've let the Bohemians dictate Social Norms, this has to stop. Literally dictate, most pronounced through Social media and new Corporate Rules.

I think the left arising cults are also parts of a lack of trust in other people in society. People are implicitly stressed by social disharmony and reacting in different ways.
They didn't feel such needs in 1950.
11   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Aug 5, 12:25pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
Over 2 days, 34 people died in mass shootings.
Over the same time, around 250 people Xed themselves - with enough decency not to take anyone else with them.


Again, the Urban mass shootings are being forgotten.
12   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Aug 5, 1:26pm  

Great OP by the way, @Heraclitusstudent.

I am a Western Civilizationist, however. The US is and should remain a Western Nation.

Plato and Aristotle and Locke should be taught in school, not Social Justice. Also, kids should be instructed to wash hands and face, look people in the eye, etc.
13   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Aug 5, 1:35pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
In my view these are all the result of a simple fact: people do not feel they belong to the society around them. They do not have the social relations or social support when they need it. They are isolated. Tribeless.


I do agree with you btw. But I think that has to do with our media. Media really has been promoting that sort of stuff every election, creating that sort of "identity politics" division. I blame them, rich people divide the country really well.

And stupidly Democratic party decided to be "all inclusive" basically brought in wishes of all the crazy and mentally ill, who can't function in normal society and require total chaos in order to manage themselves (aka trannies, feminists, and similar emotionally unstable horseshit). It says a lot about craziness of the left when they ban gendered language, language offends them out of all the problems in the world.

An average person doesn't even know about all this crap, it's a pure bubble in places where people are exposed to this propaganda daily. BayArea has a lot of it. I live in Los Angeles, you'll be surprised probably, but most people here haven't heard of this shit. Working class immigrants here in Reseda, they don't even pay attention to this shit, too busy trying to make a buck.
14   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Aug 5, 1:39pm  

Liberals are losers, and they can't do shit on their own, so they feel like they need a giant support group to push them forward. And that's what Democratic party turned into.

I do blame Democrats for a lot of this tribalism, they've been promoting it for a long time. Gender identity groups, lgbt groups, feminist groups, etc... last election they were big on "men vs women" because Hillary was running and feminists thought they were riding in with her.

Can't watch CNN at all, it's 24/7 identity politics. "black vs white", "trannies are oppressed by cis gendereds", "americans vs immigrants", you name it... its' non stop liberal propaganda, and it does affect people. They just went all "anti white" shame and it really backfired, just created tribalism. Rich fucks who run that media thought they could control people by shame, instead they created chaos.
16   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Aug 5, 2:24pm  

FortWayneIndiana says
Can't watch CNN at all, it's 24/7 identity politics. "black vs white", "trannies are oppressed by cis gendereds", "americans vs immigrants", you name it... its' non stop liberal propaganda, and it does affect people. They just went all "anti white" shame and it really backfired, just created tribalism. Rich fucks who run that media thought they could control people by shame, instead they created chaos.


When the majority is actively demonized by the ruling classes, it seldom ends in a Fun, Happy Place.

Kudos to White People for not flipping out, but some kind of forceful pushback is necessary. Certainly the ratings of propaganda outlets is falling.
17   NDrLoR   2019 Aug 5, 2:47pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
People are implicitly stressed by social disharmony and reacting in different ways. They didn't feel such needs in 1950.


I posted this in another thread, but it's especially appropriate here. These authors explain the source of much of the chaos and mayhem we experience on almost a daily basis today and it's been in progress for over 50 years. About the middle of the book the authors insert a timeline table beginning in 1965 and going through 2018. They make the assertion that our culture began a decline in 1965 in all areas and in effect a cultural collapse that continues to this day. In just five years '65-'70 we began an entrenched drug culture, no-fault divorce, young people shacking up instead of marrying, "relationships" instead of romance, huge increases in sexual promiscuity, abolition of stigmas associated with single motherhood, the proliferation of new STD's in addition to the old standby's of syphilis and gonorrhea and eventually AIDS, etc. All these things are still in existence today. https://www.amazon.com/New-Evil-Understanding-Emergence-Violent/dp/1633885321/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
18   Shaman   2019 Aug 5, 2:47pm  

HonkpilledMaster says
Get Pedophilia to be just another "Sexual Preference", with the perps protected by the law, rather than the law protecting the victims.

That will be a red line, and there will be an interesting struggle between the Childless Kreative Klass and those with Children.


This is already in progress with the trans activists and gay activists. The trans bathroom/locker room issue is the best example, where Obama tried to make it a law that dudes can join your daughters in the shower as long as they identify as female that day. Fuck a bunch of that! The push back from parents is already growing intense, and I would estimate around 85% of American are NOT ok with this. The rest are perverts and the hopelessly brainwashed useful idiots.
19   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Aug 5, 3:41pm  

P N Dr Lo R says
They make the assertion that our culture began a decline in 1965 in all areas and in effect a cultural collapse that continues to this day. In just five years '65-'70 we began an entrenched drug culture, no-fault divorce, young people shacking up instead of marrying, "relationships" instead of romance, huge increases in sexual promiscuity, abolition of stigmas associated with single motherhood, the proliferation of new STD's in addition to the old standby's of syphilis and gonorrhea and eventually AIDS, etc. All these things are still in existence today. https://www.amazon.com/New-Evil-Understanding-Emergence-Violent/dp/1633885321/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


Well I'm not even talking about the changing culture. If you take drugs and sexual promiscuity for example, these could have happened in a context of increased responsibility and self restraint. Even single motherhood could have been handled within families, with relatives and fathers taking more responsibilities.
But what we saw was never increased responsibility, but the opposite. The rise of 'no one gives a shit'. Instant gratification. Carelessness. Social norms? What social norms? Anything goes.

I blame in part capitalism, the very forces that produce material wealth: Every human exchange, that used to be a complex social exchange, has become a financial transaction that can be done with a total stranger that you never have to trust. I mean: just look at Rin.

Tribalism once existed as nationalism and then has disappeared from the west, as if our societies have lost the collective will to live.

There is no beliefs, no values, no narratives that animate people. Or if there is, these are parodies of what a civilization needs.
Instead of responsibility, we witnessed the rise of the post-burning man Neo-hippie.
And the rise in politics of pumpkin spice latte drinking Neo-marxists.
20   EBGuy   2019 Aug 5, 3:49pm  

What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent?
21   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Aug 5, 4:05pm  

Quigley says
This is already in progress with the trans activists and gay activists. The trans bathroom/locker room issue is the best example, where Obama tried to make it a law that dudes can join your daughters in the shower as long as they identify as female that day. Fuck a bunch of that! The push back from parents is already growing intense, and I would estimate around 85% of American are NOT ok with this. The rest are perverts and the hopelessly brainwashed useful idiots.


It sure is funny.

It seemed we were on the verge of banning Child "Beauty Pageants", then all of a sudden, out comes that 90s Night Club Kid Murderer Alix Whateverhisnameis and his protege Desmond the Amazing, and now not only are Child Beauty Pageants now okay per the Media, Drag Child Pageants are GOOD! and WHOLESOME! Nevermind the creepy old men who show up to them and take pics.

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