patrick.net

$200 is $200. It should make for a nice dinner out. I actually believe you will pay up. If I remember... there were some schools in Red areas that were very pro-gun during the student led walkouts eg https://www.businessinsider.com/national-school-walkout-students-protest-gun-violence-in-us-2018-3 where the students dissed those few democrats in attendance that participated. Weak compared to the leftist college protests, but it happened nonetheless.

marcus says

No offense intended, but your assertions are political spin, and downright silly.

marcus says

As for the cuts, they come from eliminating a massive subsidy to private insurers and gradually reducing the rate of growth in payments to some providers.

One of these statements cant be true. You are literally contradicting yourself.

Let's remember your original assertion that trump lied w evry word. Medicare as we know it dying in favor of a medicare for all is NOT a lie. It is a fact.

The fact that more can be said than what Trump said in a speech is ofc, completely irrelevant. More can always be said on a topic.

You have gotten to the point where you believe the propgandized lies, this is a dangerous time for our country

CBOEtrader says

You have gotten to the point where you believe the propgandized lies, this is a dangerous time for our country

MY belief, and that of so many reality based people is that you have described exactly what you suffer from. Although, apparently you have been "at this point" for quite some time.

CBOEtrader says

this is a dangerous time for our country

Yes it is. Donald Trump is President.

CBOEtrader says

Medicare as we know it dying in favor of a medicare for all is NOT a lie.

Let me get this straight. A policy that doesn't exist yet, that is, a policy that could come to exist and be structured in an infinite number of different ways, negotiated by congress, can not be done in a way that doesn't damage another policy, even though a huge and powerful and growing interest group (old people) that votes, is deeply moved to politically support the well being of the latter policy.

This could just be the stupidest assertion of a supposed fact that I've ever heard on Patrick.net.

“ in an infinite number of different ways negotiated by congress”

Do any of those ways come attached with a price tag of less than 10 trillion?

Asking for a friend.

Yes, cost is the question. But at least you presumably get that the cost doesn't have to take from existing medicare. IT could even be structured to enhance medicare for the elderly.

But of course cost matters. The new medicare taxes added would have to be significantly less than the major medical part of the health insurance we now pay for.

Economies of scale baby ! And everyone is paying in. So of course the cost is less.

marcus says

Let me get this straight. A policy that doesn't exist yet, that is, a policy that could come to exist and be structured in an infinite number of different ways, negotiated by congress, can not be done in a way that doesn't damage another policy, even though a huge and powerful and growing interest group (old people) that votes, is deeply moved to politically support the well being of the latter policy.

Medicare - for - all implies everyone is paying into it. You said this yourself multiple times.

Seniors have already paid into medicare. Why should they risk a good system for them which is already paid for?

So yeah, the only feasible way to have a medicare for all program would be for existing medicare funds intermingle w medicare for all funds. This is guaranteed hurt those who've already paid. History has shown this to be true w Obamacare.

marcus says

Economies of scale baby ! And everyone is paying in. So of course the cost is less.

They made the same arguments about Obamacare. How'd that work out?

marcus says

Economies of scale baby !

Economies of scale only works if you have a reasonable assumption that the firm (or in this case gov't entity) is going to act like a profit seeking firm. Often the advantages of "economies of scale" are lost to inefficiency, outright corruption, and incompetence for government institutions. Just look at how the government has handled the VA.

Goran_K says

Just look at how the government has handled the VA.

Or medicare part D. Or Obamacare.

CBOEtrader says

Or medicare part D. Or Obamacare.

Part D was R's. Obamacare was D's. Both are budget- and common-sense busting monstrosities, enacted to pay off Big Pharma and Insurance. And we are arguing here if R's or D's are worse...

dr6B says

CBOEtrader says

Or medicare part D. Or Obamacare.

Part D was R's. Obamacare was D's. Both are budget- and commons-sense busting monstrosities, enacted to pay off Big Pharma and Insurance. And we are arguing here if R's or D's are worse...

Well this argument started when Marcus posted an article claiming every word of Trumps speech was a lie. I asked him to get behind one of his claims and he wouldn't again.

So I took the liberty of pointing out the valid criticisms and truthful statements in trumps speech.

Goran_K says

marcus says

Economies of scale baby !

Economies of scale only works if you have a reasonable assumption that the firm (or in this case gov't entity) is going to act like a profit seeking firm. Often the advantages of "economies of scale" are lost to inefficiency, outright corruption, and incompetence for government institutions. Just look at how the government has handled the VA.

If you have an inefficient bureaucracy, greater volume will only create a greater inefficient bureaucracy.
Two weeks ago I heard on the radio, 30% of government workers are not at work at any given time for a variety of reasons. And I'm pretty sure, when they are at work, they are hardly working. Almost impossible to fire incompetent government workers, and yet they get early retirement with mega pensions for life.

Exactly.

My company is working with the Department of Education in California. One of my key contacts, a "web developer", hasn't been to work in 3 months. Supposedly out on "stress leave". So California is paying me to hire a developer so the work can be completed by me!

That's two salaries being paid to do the work of "one" person.

Big government is great at waste.

Goran_K says

Big government is great at waste.

That is also the case with a California government employee we are acquainted with. Takes days off at will. This is why bigger governments are never welcome.
Big governments are the greatest ripoffs ever.

CBOEtrader says

Medicare - for - all implies everyone is paying into it. You said this yourself multiple times.

Seniors have already paid into medicare. Why should they risk a good system for them which is already paid for?

This is stupid and makes no sense. You might be right. Just as republicans didn't like Al Gore's idea, of a "lock box" for social security. If you give republicans a chance to fuck over the elderly, by spending their medicare, just to prove that single payer doesn't work, they would. Hell, they could probably get some big tax cuts out of the deal with the consequences blamed on the libruls.

But it's insanely stupid to think that the moneys brought in for medicare for people under 65, HAVE TO be commingled, and also have to be insufficient, therefore causing stealing from medicare. This makes no sense, even if you were right about the ACA doing that, which you aren't. You clearly didn't read through the balanced last link a gave.

But I will say this, I understand your instincts, but think a better analogy would be the way we keep lowering taxes, and then we are going to say we can't afford "entitlements" such as SS and medicare.

Maybe you're right. Medicare for all might just end up being another way for republicans to fuck over the democrats and the people, and say "I told you so" with their tax cuts and (at all costs democrats never get to do anything) ensuring a more solid rule by the corporations and the plutocracy.

Although unfortunately that also means the end of humanity. Oh, well. We had a good run.