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Why Don’t People Who Can’t Afford Housing Just Move Where It’s Cheaper?

By Patrick following x   2018 May 15, 5:18pm 3,001 views   28 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/15/upshot/why-dont-people-who-cant-afford-housing-just-move-where-its-cheaper.html

But for the poorest renters — making less than 30 percent of a region’s median income — there is a shortage of affordable housing virtually everywhere in America. Moving, itself expensive, isn’t guaranteed to solve their problem. A cheaper housing market may indicate that a region has fewer jobs. And low-skilled jobs in a city like San Francisco pay some of the highest wages in the country; the minimum wage here is twice what it is in much of America, a real benefit that weighs against the high housing costs. ...

People who struggle financially often have valuable social networks — family to help with child care, acquaintances who know of jobs. The prospect of dropping into, say, Oklahoma or Georgia would mean doing without the good income and the social support. Those intangible connections that keep people in places with bad economies also keep people in booming regions where the rent is too high.

For Ms. Mack, her mother’s home was overcrowded but happy. She did not have a bedroom door to close for privacy, but she had enough that she and her daughter could afford to keep waiting for their own home.
1   ForcedTQ   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 8:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The real analysis would center around X% median cost to rent / cost to own vs.X% median after tax income level to compare two areas. This would be a good comparison for anyone to do when considering moving due to housing costs.
2   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 8:49am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

That’s about right. People stay for high paying jobs and family connections. If either of those things can be “sourced” elsewhere they move.

I’ve a friend who grew up in Illinois, got fed up with the high taxes after the recession, and moved to Montana. His parents came along, and his job was flexible location wise.
3   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2018 May 16, 10:10am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

1.) Move to Texas where even low end jobs pay $14-15 an hour, despite a lower min wage than CA.

2.) rents on 2bd apt as low as $700-800/mo.

3.) one spouse works days. The other works grave or swing shift.

4.) Buh bye mopey sobey News story.
4   jazz_music   ignore (6)   2018 May 16, 10:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Moving 2 thousand miles will cost you 10 to 20 thousand if you do it all yourself U-Haul and with some pick up laborers, but they will damage your shit too.

If you are in your 20's or don't have a lot of stuff then I don't know how cheap it would be. A small U Haul is all you need maybe with a car carrier and the gas mileage will be way better.

May as well get used to moving if you live outside of a sprawl like Los Angeles area because engineering jobs are designed to dry up after 2 or so years now.
5   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2018 May 16, 10:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

This goes with my housing outlook. Some people believe that I am predicting a nationwide drop in housing prices. While it might happen if interest rates rise, I am predicting massive price declines in the expensive blue state areas, and stable to increasing prices in currently depressed areas. The reason is that it is a scarcity of good jobs that has caused the continued demise in housing in the red states and literally tethered a strained working class to the blue states that has caused a shortage.

It is only natural to infer that if guaranteed employment can be had in other areas, people will leave a miserable situation of being the working poor. There are many killer areas that would be nice to live in, but they are blighted from decades of foreign outsourcing.
6   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 16, 11:02am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I don't think the leaving family has to keep you in an overpriced market. You just have to reach a collaborative decision to all move. Think homesteading.
7   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (4)   2018 May 16, 11:13am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Moving 2 thousand miles will cost you 10 to 20 thousand if you do it all yourself U-Haul and with some pick up laborers


Um, no.

How much does it cost to move from Maine to California?

Moving 3,342 miles from San Diego, CA to Lubec, ME costs around $7,018 to pack yourself vs. having professional movers move you from Lubec to San Diego will cost around $9,257.

How much does it cost to move from Massachusetts to California?

Moving 3,224 miles from Eureka, CA to Boston, MA costs around $6,770 to pack yourself vs. having professional movers move you from Boston to Eureka will cost around $8,930.

How much does it cost to move from California to Maine?

Moving 3210 miles from Bangor, ME to Los Angeles, CA costs around $6,741 to pack yourself vs. having professional movers move you from Los Angeles to Bangor will cost around $8,891.

How much does it cost to move from Portland to Portland?

Moving 3,188 miles from Portland, OR to Portland, ME costs around $6,697 to pack yourself vs. having professional movers move you from Portland to Portland will cost around $8,830.

How much does it cost to move from California to Vermont?

Moving 3,076 miles from Montpelier, VT to Santa Maria, CA costs around $6,459 to pack yourself vs. having professional movers move you from Santa Maria to Montpelier will cost around $8,520.

How much does it cost to move from New Hampshire to Washington?

Moving 3,065 miles from Olympia, WA to Concord, NH costs around $6,436 to pack yourself vs. having professional movers move you from Concord to Olympia will cost around $8,490.

How much does it cost to move from Washington To South Carolina?

Moving 3,022 miles from Charleston, SC to Bellingham, Washington costs around $6,346 to pack yourself vs. having professional movers move you from Bellingham to Charleston will cost around $8,370.


http://www.findgoodmovers.net/cross-country/moving-from-west-coast-to-east-coast/#4
8   MrBark   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 12:24pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Moving 2 thousand miles will cost you 10 to 20 thousand if you do it all yourself U-Haul and with some pick up laborers, but they will damage your shit too.

If you are in your 20's or don't have a lot of stuff then I don't know how cheap it would be. A small U Haul is all you need maybe with a car carrier and the gas mileage will be way better.

May as well get used to moving if you live outside of a sprawl like Los Angeles area because engineering jobs are designed to dry up after 2 or so years now.


10-20k? You tow a u-haul with a Rolls Royce?
9   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 May 16, 12:31pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I am ENTITLED to live in California. Fuck the other 40 million people and 15 million illegals.
10   Philistine   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 1:46pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrBark says
10-20k?

So, when we moved from Brooklyn, NY to Los Angeles, CA in 2008, I got three bids to move our 1200 sqft apartment that was FULLY jam packed. The range was between $10-15k from all three bids and this was over 10 years ago, to move during a January, which was supposedly the slowest (and therefore cheapest) time of year to hire a mover for long distance. This was after we packed and boxed everything ourselves, so just physical moving and pick up/drop off.

I ended up going with an $11k bid, which I didn't care either way since my employer was footing the bill. Maybe things have changed in the moving industry since then? We could have spent another $1500 to ship our car, but chose to drive instead because of our dog and a few extremely breakable items that we didn't trust the movers with.

All that said, our jobs are highly specific and we can't find any kind of employment in non-blue/cheap housing locales. So we've saved and invested our LA LA bucks and are about a year away from quitting and moving to BFE and just doing gigs to pay the light bill (aka, semi-retirement).
11   resident14c   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 1:47pm   ↑ like (6)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Moving 2 thousand miles will cost you 10 to 20 thousand if you do it all yourself U-Haul and with some pick up laborers, but they will damage your shit too.


I moved from NYC to Texas last year. Sold all my furniture, packed the wife and all of our remaining stuff in my sedan, and drove down over 2-3 days. The whole thing cost us $400 (including gas, hotels, food, tolls).
12   Philistine   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 1:50pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

resident14c says
Sold all my furniture

This is by far the best advise for a long distance move. Unless you have really nice stuff or a lot of family heirlooms, which most people today don't.
13   resident14c   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 1:52pm   ↑ like (6)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
The prospect of dropping into, say, Oklahoma or Georgia would mean doing wit...


You're not going to get a millennial who loves degenerate sex, hipster bars, and $5 cold brew coffees to move away from NYC or SF. Imagine their horror if they opened up their Grind'r app in Oklahoma and saw they didn't have any matches.
14   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 1:55pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

resident14c says
The whole thing cost us $400 (including gas, hotels, food, tolls).


When you have too much stuff, it tends to own you. We pared down hard on belongings before each move as well, but getting down to what fits into a sedan is pretty epic minimalism!
Congrats on the move!
15   mell   ignore (2)   2018 May 16, 2:04pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Quigley says
When you have too much stuff, it tends to own you.


This is it. Back in the days I moved and had 3 weeks in between, simply parked the station wagon filled with all the belongings next to the new place, went on vacation, and moved in once I got back. This usually only works when single though, the Missus always has boatloads of stuff ;)
16   MisterLefty   ignore (0)   2018 May 16, 5:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Sheeple gonna sheep. You can stay and live in Africa, or face the challenge of migrating into unknown lands, and improve the lives of your progeny.
17   Reality   ignore (5)   2018 May 16, 5:33pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

1. The cited article clearly shows that it is the expected subsidy benefit from "affordable housing" that keeps the people in high cost of living area.

2. It's doubtful many of the lowest income people in a given area are even working at all (instead of receiving SSI/SSDI and other welfare subsidies, many via fraudulent claims), so the local job pay is irrelevant.

3. Free housing in SFBA from extended family (likely already in "affordable housing" units) is cheaper than housing in TX. You can't beat the price of "free."

4. Does anyone honestly believe they had enough belongings to move that would have cost $10k in moving expense to TX? when moving from previous location to the mother's living room? (no doors to sleep quarters)
18   Strategist   ignore (2)   2018 May 16, 7:22pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrBark says
jazz_music says
Moving 2 thousand miles will cost you 10 to 20 thousand if you do it all yourself U-Haul and with some pick up laborers, but they will damage your shit too.

If you are in your 20's or don't have a lot of stuff then I don't know how cheap it would be. A small U Haul is all you need maybe with a car carrier and the gas mileage will be way better.

May as well get used to moving if you live outside of a sprawl like Los Angeles area because engineering jobs are designed to dry up after 2 or so years now.


10-20k? You tow a u-haul with a Rolls Royce?


ROFL.
Jazz is so funny. If people had so much precious items that it cost them $20,000 to move, they would not need to move to a cheaper place.
Just sell your furniture.
Throw away the junk.
Dump it all in your car or cars, and start driving. Duh.
19   Strategist   ignore (2)   2018 May 16, 7:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ceffer says
I am ENTITLED to live in California. Fuck the other 40 million people and 15 million illegals.


Yup. I am entitled to live in a $50 million Malibu mansion. I'm $50 million short. :(
20   just_dregalicious   ignore (0)   2018 May 26, 10:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Moving 2 thousand miles will cost you 10 to 20 thousand


Greyhound bus tix are much cheaper than that!
21   bob2356   ignore (4)   2018 May 26, 11:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Philistine says

So, when we moved from Brooklyn, NY to Los Angeles, CA in 2008, I got three bids to move our 1200 sqft apartment that was FULLY jam packed. The range was between $10-15k from all three bids and this was over 10 years ago, to move during a January, which was supposedly the slowest (and therefore cheapest) time of year to hire a mover for long distance. This was after we packed and boxed everything ourselves, so just physical moving and pick up/drop off.

I ended up going with an $11k bid, which I didn't care either way since my employer was footing the bill. Maybe things have changed in the moving industry since then? We could have spent another $1500 to ship our car, but chose to drive instead because of our dog and a few extremely breakable items that we didn't trust the movers with.


Full service movers are regulated as are their rates. Much cheaper to hire local packing loading/unloading and use a common carrier mover like old dominion or moving place. I've done it many times. International moving is much trickier.
22   BayArea   ignore (1)   2018 May 26, 12:06pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Good thread Patrick.

You often hear “why then don’t you just move to a cheaper area”

When you consider the money saving opportunities by living near family/friends along with lower earning potential elsewhere, you quickly see that things aren’t as simple as they seem on the surface.
23   TrumpingTits   ignore (1)   2018 May 26, 3:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

As someone born and raised in the Bay Area, I say kick out all the carpetbaggers instead.
24   mell   ignore (2)   2018 May 26, 3:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

BayArea says
Good thread Patrick.

You often hear “why then don’t you just move to a cheaper area”

When you consider the money saving opportunities by living near family/friends along with lower earning potential elsewhere, you quickly see that things aren’t as simple as they seem on the surface.


But it's more so that we're creatures of habit. That's why the subscription model is so sought after, people rarely cancel or make hard decisions such as moving even if it would be totally beneficial. Also the smell of urine and feces in the city seems to attract enough dwellers. The bay area would do much better with a thorough exodus followed by a sweeping cleanup a la Giuliani. There are few nice niches in SF or SJ and in between, but for the most part it's overrun.
25   rocketjoe79   ignore (0)   2019 Apr 14, 9:31am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Here is another option: Sell EVERYTHING and pack only the mementos. It's just "stuff", after all, and you can buy new craigslist "stuff" when you get settled. Save $5000 and have some cash for moving expenses. People are so tied in to their belongings. Let it go.
26   clambo   ignore (4)   2019 Apr 15, 9:33am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I don't know who pays $10,000 to move his shit across the USA.

I have just moved stuff from Jupiter, Florida to Santa Cruz CA. Some furniture and boxes of my stuff were estimated to weigh 1300 lbs and they charged me $2800. I could have paid less if I had given them some planning time but I didn't. Shipping my car instead of driving was about $900.

I think moving beds is expensive and not worth it. I sold and gave away some nice furniture which would have pushed my move up to $3000 or so.

Rocketjoe79 has a point, I would have left all of it behind except one ancient antique but my friend yelled at me "you can't leave that antique x behind!" so I brought some more of it. I left stuff at a consignment store which was nice since I may actually make some $ from it.

I had a philosophy since 1982 that I wanted all of my shit to fit into the back of a pick up truck. I guess it's too late for that but I will keep downsizing by looking in closets for things I don't need.

If we are talking about renters who are moving to make more money, then by definition they should not have very valuable junk in the first place and could probably leave it behind.
27   joshuatrio   ignore (0)   2019 Apr 15, 12:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
Moving 2 thousand miles will cost you 10 to 20 thousand if you do it all yourself U-Haul and with some pick up laborers, but they will damage your shit too.


Ummm k. I moved 3300 miles for about $3-4k. This included driving 2 vehicles across country and using a POD type service large enough to hold a 3 bd house.
28   P N Dr Lo R   ignore (0)   2019 Apr 15, 12:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
they charged me $2800
When I moved back to Waco from Dallas in 2005 I used Mayflower, the people who moved the Pilgrims over here, and they charged me $2,300. That included two men who spent a day packing everything into 44 boxes from my two-story condo where I'd lived for 24 years. If you ever want to find something you lost or misplaced when you moved the first time, have Mayflower pack you. There was a box of records I'd never unpacked that were just like getting new all over again. Every time I unpacked a box during the rest of the summer I'd think oh I wondered where that was all these years. Before they started, one man went through the condo with an electronic device into which he punched info. When they finished, the final total was within 97% accuracy of their estimate and they didn't break anything. They forgot to unload my Craftsman toolbox and I had it back in a day. Also, at that time moving expenses were deductible.

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