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The coming migration away from bloated state governments


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2018 Apr 25, 1:49pm   8,234 views  22 comments

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I found this article very intriguing. I'm wondering how my home state, uber-liberal and bloated Oregon (it didn't used to be that way!), will be affected. I looked at a state tax comparison a few weeks ago, and was shocked to see that even though California has a higher top tax rate, overall for most residents the state taxes in Oregon are actually higher. Anyone noticing any of the beginning migration? I know someone wealthy (impersonally, actually someone I had as a client, so I don't know the exact reason why) that abruptly closed their business and moved to Texas. And views/opinions?

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So Long, California. Sayonara, New York Blue states will lose millions of people in the years to come—and they aren’t ready.

By
Arthur B. Laffer and Stephen Moore

As the Trump tax cut was being debated in December, California’s Gov. Jerry Brown called the bill “evil in the extreme” and fumed that it would “divide the hell out of us.” He’s right—but in the end, this change could be good for all the states.
In the years to come, millions of people, thousands of businesses, and tens of billions of dollars of net income will flee high-tax blue states for low-tax red states. This migration has been happening for years. But the Trump tax bill’s cap on the deduction for state and local taxes, or SALT, will accelerate the pace. The losers will be most of the Northeast, along with California. The winners are likely to be states like Arizona, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas and Utah.
For years blue states have exported a third or more of their tax burden to residents of other states. In places like California, where the top income-tax rate exceeds 13%, that tax could be deducted on a federal return. Now that deduction for state and local taxes will be capped at $10,000 per family.
Consider what this means if you’re a high-income earner in Silicon Valley or Hollywood. The top tax rate that you actually pay just jumped from about 8.5% to 13%. Similar figures hold if you live in Manhattan, once New York City’s income tax is factored in. If you earn $10 million or more, your taxes might increase a whopping 50%.
About 90% of taxpayers are unaffected by the change. But high earners in places with hefty income taxes—not just California and New York, but also Minnesota and New Jersey—will bear more of the true cost of their state government. Also in big trouble are Connecticut and Illinois, where the overall state and local tax burden (especially property taxes) is so onerous that high-income residents will feel the burn now that they can’t deduct these costs on their federal returns. On the other side are nine states—including Florida, Nevada, Texas and Washington—that impose no tax at all on earned income.
B3-AD117_Laffer_P_20180419174224.jpg
PHOTO: ISTOCK/GETTY IMAGES
Last week the two of us, along with co-author Jonathan Williams, released the 11th annual edition of “Rich States, Poor States,” a report published by the American Legislative Exchange Council. The report ranks each state’s economic outlook using a range of variables. One is domestic migration: Are the U-Haul trucks and vans moving people in, or moving them out? Over the past decade, about 3.5 million Americans on net have relocated from the highest-tax states to the lowest-tax ones.

Since 2007 Texas and Florida (with no income tax) have gained 1.4 million and 850,000 residents, respectively, from other states. California and New York have jointly lost more than 2.2 million residents. Our analysis of IRS data on tax returns shows that in the past three years alone, Texas and Florida have gained a net $50 billion in income and purchasing power from other states, while California and New York have surrendered a net $23 billion.
Now that the SALT subsidy is gone, how bad will it get for high-tax blue states? Very bad. We estimate, based on the historical relationship between tax rates and migration patterns, that the pace of out-migration from California and New York will soon double—with about 800,000 net out-migrants each of the next three years. Our calculations suggest that Connecticut, New Jersey and Minnesota combined will hemorrhage another roughly 500,000 people in the same period.
Red states ought to brace themselves: The Yankees are coming, and they are bringing their money with them. Meanwhile, the exodus could puncture large and unexpected holes in blue-state budgets. Lawmakers in Hartford and Trenton have gotten a small taste of this in recent years as billionaire financiers have flown the coop and relocated to Florida. As the migration speeds up, it will raise real-estate values in low-tax states and hurt them in high-tax states.
As far as we can see, the only way for blue states to prevent this coming fiscal bloodbath is to start taking tax competitiveness seriously—and to cut their tax rates in response. Progressives should do the math: A 13% tax rate generates zero revenue from someone who leaves the state for friendlier climes.
Blue states ought to be able to lower their taxes and spending dramatically without jeopardizing vital services. Despite its shrinking tax base, New York spends nearly twice as much on state and local government per person ($16,000) as does economically booming Tennessee ($9,000).
Alas, delusional liberal interest groups want blue states to respond to the Trump tax cuts by soaking their rich residents even more. If that happens, our best advice to blue-state residents is simple: Git while the gittin’s good.
Mr. Laffer is chairman of Laffer Associates. Mr. Moore is a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation. They are co-authors of the ALEC annual report “Rich States, Poor States.”

Comments 1 - 22 of 22        Search these comments

1   RWSGFY   2018 Apr 25, 2:40pm  

Who needs taxpayers when CA has unlimited supply of wonderful illegals waiting just across the border?
2   WookieMan   2018 Apr 25, 6:06pm  

HEYYOU says
Damn! All the Red States are totally self sufficient.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/
....
There is shit on the interwebs that the brainwashed can look up before sticking their heads up their asses


The OP isn't about federal spending in red states or blue states. It's about individual states with large tax burdens. So not sure what the links are referencing. A link about military and war spending would be more appropriate if we're talking federal funding as that's the bulk of federal spending.

Regarding the OP, it's fact, high tax (income & property) states are going to have issues in the coming years. IL is already so desperate they're trying to essentially set up in essence a non-profit to accept tax payments so they can still be deducted: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180411/BLOGS02/180419968/gop-tax-law-state-lawmakers-look-for-a-trump-deductions-workaround

That doesn't sound like a government working for the people. That sounds like a government concerned about their cash cow being taken from them. Think about that. A state government is literally and publicly assisting in evading paying federal taxes.

People will move or vote differently because of this. This isn't about a state getting more or less then others from the federal government.
3   WookieMan   2018 Apr 25, 9:00pm  

WarrenTheApe says
Nevermind that the IRS has already said it won't pass muster.


I HATE taxes mind you. It's not even about passing muster with the IRS though. It's open and public federal tax fraud by state governments and elected officials to try and circumvent the new tax law. They will all end up suing each other or whatnot and ultimately it will go nowhere.

If I forgot (or don't receive) the random W-2 or 1099 from a side job for $1,500 one year, the IRS would be looking to lien my house and my children if they could for the $150 owed. These politicians will end up making the attorneys representing the state (likely their buddies) a bunch of money and not a person will go a jail like what would happen if anyone tried to defraud the federal government of tax dollars.
4   bob2356   2018 Apr 26, 3:59am  

WookieMan says
If I forgot (or don't receive) the random W-2 or 1099 from a side job for $1,500 one year, the IRS would be looking to lien my house and my children if they could for the $150 owed


Total bullshit. They would send a letter saying there is a discrepancy could you resolve it. Hyperbole much?.
5   lostand confused   2018 Apr 26, 4:15am  

If the job market is great why pay 5-10-20k extra to supported a bloated bureacracy that only want more and more. It is not like they appreciate you.
6   WookieMan   2018 Apr 26, 5:33am  

bob2356 says
WookieMan says
If I forgot (or don't receive) the random W-2 or 1099 from a side job for $1,500 one year, the IRS would be looking to lien my house and my children if they could for the $150 owed


Total bullshit. They would send a letter saying there is a discrepancy could you resolve it. Hyperbole much?.


Yes, the hyperbole about the kids was to make a point. Not sure it's TOTAL bullshit though, the IRS will lien your home if they have to. So right back at ya with the hyperbole and my comment being total bullshit.

Ultimately the IRS will of course will send you a letter, you send it back with documentation and any required payment if you were short. This same situation occurred with a missing W-2 for my wife for $150 (gross pay), so we owed something like $30 a couple years back. The funny part is the government body she was on that board for just never even sent the W-2 we later found out, lol, government at it's finest.

Check the link though in my previous comment above. IL state legislature is actively and openly trying to skirt the new federal tax law (as others have said, I think CA is doing the same and IL is copying it basically). I'm not sure why they would do that? Do you have a theory? I think they might be worried that some people, specifically some wealthier and influential folks may wake up and realize that they're getting their tax asses kicked in their state. Or, in IL specifically, they're trying to cover up their complete and utter incompetence at wasting our tax dollars as politicians.

I'm open to hearing new ideas on why CA and IL would be doing what they are doing. If it's out of the goodness of their hearts because they want their citizens to pay less taxes, well fuck, they might need to look in the mirror to figure that one out.
7   HeadSet   2018 Apr 26, 7:03am  

Consider what this means if you’re a high-income earner in Silicon Valley or Hollywood. The top tax rate that you actually pay just jumped from about 8.5% to 13%. Similar figures hold if you live in Manhattan, once New York City’s income tax is factored in. If you earn $10 million or more, your taxes might increase a whopping 50%.

If you are a true liberal earning that kind of money, shouldn't you be proud to pay that rather than transfer that burden to poorer people throughout the country? Why would any lefty want to move out of a beautiful area with amenable politics just to save some cash? Greed?
8   Bd6r   2018 Apr 26, 7:43am  

HeadSet says
If you are a true liberal earning that kind of money, shouldn't you be proud to pay that rather than transfer that burden to poorer people throughout the country

No, if you are a true lefty Hollywood personality, you want to avoid paying taxes yourself while making people who make 10x less that you pay nearly everything they earn. "Liberal" is a misnomer here - liberals are for economic freedom, which these lefty types are not.
9   zzyzzx   2018 Apr 26, 10:40am  

I think this new tax law means that I'm more likely to retire in Florida instead of Delaware.
10   HeadSet   2018 Apr 26, 11:15am  

drB6 says
liberals are for economic freedom,

Yes, a traditional Liberal would be for economic freedom. But the people in America today that self identify as liberal are hardly of a free trade mindset. Same for the Liberal Party in the UK.

Does your interpretation of Liberal include the economic freedom of who a private business can hire or sell to? For example, a man running a Chinese Restaurant who wants to maintain an old China atmosphere by having only ethnic Chinese as wait staff? Or how about the baker who will sell any baked goods to anyone with the cash (including gays), except he opts out of providing the centerpiece for a gay wedding? Please understand I am talking about private business, which is not the same a public entity like a Fireman who I agree must serve all in the community according to law.
11   mmmarvel   2018 Apr 26, 12:57pm  

I migrated from Oregon (had lived there all my life) back in 2009, the reason was work. Oregon had none and I got an offer in Texas. Since then Oregon (the government) had continued to go off the edge of the cliff in taxes, regulations and cost of living. In Texas I have no income tax, my property tax is high but a house in Texas that is valued at $200K would cost at least $400K in Oregon. So while Oregon's property tax rate might be lower, they are taxing you on a house that they value higher. Texas is MUCH more of a live and let live state. Just be prepared for people who are a LOT friendlier than in Oregon and bring your gun. Moving to Texas, while it wasn't in my original plans, it's turned out to be a really, really great move for me.
12   mell   2018 Apr 26, 1:53pm  

HeadSet says
drB6 says
liberals are for economic freedom,

Yes, a traditional Liberal would be for economic freedom. But the people in America today that self identify as liberal are hardly of a free trade mindset. Same for the Liberal Party in the UK.

Does your interpretation of Liberal include the economic freedom of who a private business can hire or sell to? For example, a man running a Chinese Restaurant who wants to maintain an old China atmosphere by having only ethnic Chinese as wait staff? Or how about the baker who will sell any baked goods to anyone with the cash (including gays), except he opts out of providing the centerpiece for a gay wedding? Please understand I am talking about private business, which is not the same a public entity like a Fireman who I agree must serve all in the community according to law.


Well said. Those would be traditional liberal bourgeoisie positions (live and let live, run your business the way you want to), what people today define as liberal is batshit nuts cultural-marxist leftist.
13   anonymous   2018 Apr 26, 8:40pm  

mmmarvel says
Moving to Texas, while it wasn't in my original plans, it's turned out to be a really, really great move for me.
Where in Texas did you end up?
14   Bullshit   2018 Apr 28, 1:56pm  

Here are the tax rates for Oregon versus California. The first column is single income level, second couple income level, third column the tax rate:

Oregon
Tax Bracket (Single) Tax Bracket (Couple) Marg. Tax Rate
$0+ $0+ 5.00%
$3,350+ $6,700+ 7.00%
$8,450+ $16,900+ 9.00%
$125,000+ $250,000+ 9.90%

California
$0+ $0+ 1.00%
$8,015+ $16,030+ 2.00%
$19,001+ $38,002+ 4.00%
$29,989+ $59,978+ 6.00%
$41,629+ $83,258+ 8.00%
$52,612+ $105,224+ 9.30%
$268,750+ $537,500+ 10.30%
$322,499+ $644,998+ 11.30%
$537,498+ $1,000,000+ 12.30%
$1,000,000+ $1,074,996+ 13.30%

Taxes in Oregon are much more regressive (funny, since the Democratic politicians here like to refer to themselves as "progressive"). Note, for example, in Oregon, a single person making only $8450 a year is paying that whopping 9% rate. In California they would be paying 2%.
15   Bd6r   2018 Apr 28, 2:09pm  

WarrenTheApe says
closet and admit you are just being a Troll

Trolls come out of caves, I believe
16   Bullshit   2018 Apr 28, 2:15pm  

The property tax rate in Oregon averages .87%. In California it averages .67%. Property tax rates are dependent on which county your property is in, so that's the average. Since property values are higher in California, I suppose the argument could be made that the property tax burden in California is higher. For example, Marion county (California) collects an average of $5500 of yearly property taxes, while Modoc county (California) collects an average of $953 of yearly property taxes.
In Oregon, Clackamas county collects an average $2814, while Gilliam county collects $956.
New Jersey looks to have the highest property tax rates averaging a whopping 1.87% per year.
17   Onvacation   2018 Apr 28, 5:10pm  

WarrenTheApe says

Why don't you just come out of the closet and admit you are just being a Troll?

Admit? They (wanna be gender appro) promotes the fact.

Every time I'm about to ignore heyyou they post something mildly amusing.

The interwebs would be much quieter without all the trolls and sockpuppets, but where is the fun in that?
18   bob2356   2018 Apr 28, 6:22pm  

WookieMan says

Yes, the hyperbole about the kids was to make a point. Not sure it's TOTAL bullshit though, the IRS will lien your home if they have to. So right back at ya with the hyperbole and my comment being total bullshit.


Feel free to find a case of the IRS putting a lien on a house for the taxes on a $1500 error in income. Simply silly.
19   Bullshit   2018 Apr 30, 5:03am  

WarrenTheApe says
Bullshit says
The property tax rate in Oregon averages .87%. In California it averages .67%


In California, your tax rate is set on the purchase value of your home. And it can't increase nor exceed 1% of that purchase value. So, we have people paying a property tax bill on million dollar houses that they bought for $300k back in 1997. I understand that no other state is like that. That property taxes can be reset annually in many states. How is it in Oregon?


In Oregon assessed property value is set each year, January 1. Your tax is based on that. However, there is a 3% cap on the rate of assessed yearly property value increase. So it's not as generous as California. Also, if you make improvements to the property, I believe an entirely new assessed value can be set, beyond the 3%. I'm not a lawyer, but that's the simple explanation as I understand it. For example if you build an extra room onto your house, they can "reset" your assessment. I seem to remember my girlfriend having to pay increased property tax on a home she bought a few years ago. The seller had rebuilt the kitchen, which was previously in poor condition, before putting it on the market, to try to get the home to sell easier. Well, a few years after purchase, the county tried to ding her for increased property tax, based on the "improvement."

We have essentially had "one party" rule in Oregon for several decades. The same typical problems as other states: bloated pensions, overpaid government (Oregon teachers I believe are the highest paid in the country), and now in the Portland area: a massive homelessness problem. Although in Oregon I don't think the problems are quite as bad as other liberal states. The public employee pension problem is a disaster here, along with the homelessness, but not the "super" disaster in states like Illinois. Who knows what the future holds.
20   WookieMan   2018 Apr 30, 12:03pm  

bob2356 says
WookieMan says

Yes, the hyperbole about the kids was to make a point. Not sure it's TOTAL bullshit though, the IRS will lien your home if they have to. So right back at ya with the hyperbole and my comment being total bullshit.


Feel free to find a case of the IRS putting a lien on a house for the taxes on a $1500 error in income. Simply silly.


Sorry, but could it happen? Yes or no?

I wasn't stating that this EXACT scenario DID happen. It was hyperbole and I fully admitted that and you're projecting it as me saying it actually happened. It may or may not have happened, but it can happen unless you want to prove otherwise. Like some statute or rule for the IRS that says you can't lien a property for less then X dollar amount. They will get their money any way they can.
21   Bd6r   2018 Apr 30, 12:54pm  

HeadSet says
Does your interpretation of Liberal include the economic freedom of who a private business can hire or sell to? For example, a man running a Chinese Restaurant who wants to maintain an old China atmosphere by having only ethnic Chinese as wait staff? Or how about the baker who will sell any baked goods to anyone with the cash (including gays), except he opts out of providing the centerpiece for a gay wedding? Please understand I am talking about private business, which is not the same a public entity like a Fireman who I agree must serve all in the community according to law.


Just noticed this. I am fine with situations described above and that certainly fits my definition of a liberal. If someone does not want to see me in their business, I will just not go there instead of flailing arms and complaining.
22   Goran_K   2018 Apr 30, 1:15pm  

WarrenTheApe says
Squeegie man comes up to your car, cleans the window despite you telling him not to, then getting hostile when you don't pay him.


That actually fits pretty well. I like it.

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