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Its called the VA, which despite critics who are very interested in turning it over to their corporate donors to make big bucks on, does work pretty well.
tovarichpeter saysMedicare for All is the realistic solution
No it's not.
We already have a government run health agency. Its called the VA, which despite critics who are very interested in turning it over to their corporate donors to make big bucks on, does work pretty well.
bob2356 saysWe already have a government run health agency. Its called the VA, which despite critics who are very interested in turning it over to their corporate donors to make big bucks on, does work pretty well.
Medicare works pretty well too
We are at the mercy of the employer that MIGHT employ you.
If you don't get a good job and win the benefits lottery there. You're retirement and health care will be shit.
Employer-paid premiums for health insurance are exempt from federal income and payroll taxes. Additionally, the portion of premiums paid by employees is typically excluded from taxable income as well. The exclusion of premiums lowers most workers’ tax bills and thus reduces their after-tax cost of coverage. This tax subsidy partly explains why most American families have health insurance coverage through employers.
Personally, I think government should just get out of health care altogether. It is only a mess because it got involved and then more involved to 'fix' things. But this would be easy to implement even for the morons that constitute our federal civil service and the even worse morons writing the legislation in Congress. And it would be popular.
f you think sky high private insurance premiums for medicare age people are going to be popular then I have a shitload of slightly damp land in florida to sell you.
The VA is more like denmark or iceland's systems. Doctors are employees. There is no billing costs and no incentive to over treat. The VA negotiates for better prices on drugs. There is no profit mark ups across the board for each and every item. The VA in general does a good job. Especially considering they treat 9 million people in 1200 facilities, many with really unique and severe issues. There have been problems, but in any system that large there are going to be problems even in the private sector.
f you think sky high private insurance premiums for medicare age people are going to be popular then I have a shitload of slightly damp land in florida to sell you.
bob2356 says
f you think sky high private insurance premiums for medicare age people are going to be popular then I have a shitload of slightly damp land in florida to sell you.
How much were premium increases arrested or even reversed under ACA during the Obama years?
So you would support a VA system for all of America? It would also cut down on the practice of "defensive medicine" and the large slice that goes to lawyers.
bob2356 says''f you think sky high private insurance premiums for medicare age people are going to be popular then I have a shitload of slightly damp land in florida to sell you.
I didn't say that. Learn to read.
Personally, I think government should just get out of health care altogether.
I would support a Beveridge model, not necessarily the VA. I lived for many years in a Beveridge system and it worked well. BUT, public health care is never going to happen in the US. There is far, far too much profit in the current model being made by people and institutions with powerful political influence aka major campaign contributors. The US truly has the most corrupt democracy in the world and it's all perfectly legal.
The whole reason why health care is expensive is because of the government. Period.
The whole reason why health care is expensive is because of the government. Period.
Without competition, it’ll fail.
Only private sector can produce anything good and sustainable.
FortWayne saysWithout competition, it’ll fail.
Only private sector can produce anything good and sustainable.
Capitalism and competition are wonderful, but there are times when it fails and the government has to step in. In the case of our healthcare, capitalism and competition has failed to bring about affordable healthcare. Costs are insane compared to the rest of the developed world. It clearly needs fixing.
As a family we have great health insurance through a major corporation where my wife works just enough hours to qualify for the benefits. I am self employed. Our out of pocket expenses I believe are close to $10K per year. We still worry about healthcare because the system is so screwed up.
We even have health insurance for our precious German Shepherd. She was hospitalized for 36 hours last month and the total cost was $3,000 plus the follow ups. This is absolutely insane.
Originally the New Deal policy was All Employees must make the same thing for a job regardless of the company.
And then find ways to lower costs.
Tenpoundbass saysOriginally the New Deal policy was All Employees must make the same thing for a job regardless of the company.
Total horseshit, unless you're referring to union rules. Unions were a great thing for american workers. Funny how right wingers want to make America great again, but they forget that when ameriica was great, unions were much stronger.
but I agree with the OP. Medicare for all is a no brainer at this point. Medicare is already paying for most of the most expensive health care that occurs late in life anyway for the entire country. THe most efficient thing would be to bring the rest of health care in to the same system. And then find ways to lower costs.
The only real advantage Medicare has is it is funded by taxes rather than hundreds of insurance companies that must advertise, collect premiums, pay out claims, pay executive salaries, pay out dividends. pay for lobbying, negotiate fees with doctors and hospitals, etc., etc. etc. which all adds (a lot) to the cost of health care while providing zero actual health care.
Actually worse since medicare is prohibited from negotiating drug prices. LOf course that would have to change. Attempts to do so in the past were torpedoed by primarily Republicans.
Wrong. Medicare has insurance carriers that do all of those things. Also funny how you classify normal business operations as "providing zero actual health care" while lamenting the waste of a bureaucracy.
The solution is a free market system, which would include "insurance companies that must advertise, collect premiums, pay out claims, pay executive salaries, pay out dividends. pay for lobbying, negotiate fees with doctors and hospitals, etc., etc. etc." and less government intervention.
bob2356 saysActually worse since medicare is prohibited from negotiating drug prices. LOf course that would have to change. Attempts to do so in the past were torpedoed by primarily Republicans.
CBOEtrader says
Wrong. Medicare has insurance carriers that do all of those things. Also funny how you classify normal business operations as "providing zero actual health care" while lamenting the waste of a bureaucracy.
Wrong. Advantage carriers don't have to advertise for customers, they come from medicare. They don't have to collect and manage premiums, they come from medicare. They don't have to do fee for service billing, advantage is capitation. They don't have to manage actuarials and negotiate prices, they have capitation. Yet advantage costs more per beneficiary than the wasteful bureaucracy doing tradiitonal fee for service medicare and all the overhead work also.
What is lamanting a bureuaucracy? Lament means grieving or sorrow at a loss so that sentence makes very little sense. If you were trying to say praising then no I don't praise bureaucracies. But if they work be...
Total horseshit, unless you're referring to union rules.
A no brainer? Have you taken a serious look at how much FICA will have to be raised to cover medicare A and medicare tax and general income taxes to pay for part B & D? You might not be so enthusiastic.
If we are going to give free healthcare to all there should be a societal expectation for some sort of accountability for people to put an effort into staying healthy to keep costs down. I don't want to be paying more taxes for obese, smokers, drug addicts, ect that are self inflicted. It's another thing that is never brought up when comparing the US to other countries that have very successful public healthcare because their populations are healthier.
The truth is that our care is far too expensive. However, we still have the best care in the world. We are always ranked #1 in accessibility of care. We are also still largely leading innovation worldwide.
Wrong. The rate that health care costs were going up decreased under Obamacare. (not including the cost to the govt, of increased medicaid etc. for low income folks).
Every step mentioned is highly regulated and wasteful, sure. The process would be much improved and a fraction of the cost if it were a free market system rather so highly regulated.
This isnt how how Medicare works. The client still pays a carrier.
The truth is that our care is far too expensive. However, we still have the best care in the world. We are always ranked #1 in accessibility of care. We are also still largely leading innovation worldwide.
Get govt out of the way and costs would be 1/3rd as much.
We pay for health care now. This would just be another way of paying for it. Don't think there would be much difference.
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