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Bitcoin and Crypto-currency

By BayArea follow BayArea   2017 Nov 5, 3:36pm 50,470 views   518 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


#investing

Hi guys,

I'd like to start a conversation on crypto-currency, particularly Bitcoin.

What do you all think about it from an investment point of view today? I have some buddies in the finance world who are quite bullish on it and claim we are just scratching the surface. Judging by the recent performance, they may be right.

For people who are investing in Bitcoin, what are you using to invest and what recommendations do you have for a new investor?

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

I read this week that over 100,000 merchants in the USA are accepting Bitcoin today.

At the same time, digital currency does scare me a bit as it seems so abstract. Curious what PatNet thinks.

Thanks guys!

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479   rootvg   ignore (1)   2019 Jul 17, 7:02am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You don't invest in Bitcoin. You speculate with it.
480   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 9:06am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

rootvg says
You don't invest in Bitcoin. You speculate with it.


I wouldn’t give the pump and dump troll food. I finally scanned through his comment history. He lost his ass in Dec. 2017 “to the moon” fakery. If he’s telling the truth that he actually has btc, he was buying at $15-$16k based on his own comments here.

Then disappeared from here for almost 2 years and is probably still holding the bag hoping to break even on a bad bet and $$$$ sitting idle at a loss not generating income for almost 2 years because he thought it was coming back. All while he missed out on a solid stock market, where there’s legally required disclosures so you know what you’re actually investing in.

But hey, btc is decentralized. You have no idea who holds it and how much. And the super secure blockchain that can be manipulated by a miner crashing the “value” and trust in a “currency” no one actually uses as a currency.

It’s stunning how naive some are. You’d likely do better buying $10k worth of lotto tickets than speculating in btc. Actually, I’d bet there are faaaarrrr more lotto millionaire versus btc. You at least know your odds and the government won’t attempt to ban it in our lifetimes.
481   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 10:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

For some bitcoin is a great investment (like me). I dollar cost avg and bitcoin has been profitable for 98.2% of the time since creation. It just recently went from 3k to over 9k. For some, Bitcoin is not part of the investment portfolio for various reasons (some think you should sell when it’s at 3k. Like wookie “ready to eject”). Some, like to do the opposite and buy low.
That’s all part of a market. If you wouldn’t have people like wookie you wouldn’t be able to make money? You kind of need panic sellers and people who buy high.
482   Iranian_Oil_Burse   ignore (6)   2019 Jul 17, 1:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
For some bitcoin is a great investment (like me).


It is? Where is the proof?
483   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 1:35pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Hugo, That’s easy to determine. You just compare your cost base to your portfolio value based on current price minus expected taxes.

In my case it’s even easier, the “delta” app shows my profit in real time. I am sure there are dozens of apps that do that for your crypto portfolio. If you are too lazy to enter the data yourself you can connect it with your exchange and download the API’s. (Yes, exchanges keep the trade historic even though your coins are stored on a hardware wallet - had to mention that just for the dummies here ;))
484   Iranian_Oil_Burse   ignore (6)   2019 Jul 17, 1:43pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Hugo, That’s easy to determine. You just compare your cost base to your portfolio value based on current price minus expected taxes


Exactly. There is no proof you hold any of it and/or no evidence your cost basis is lower than the current price. For all we know you are one of these sorry fucks who bought at the last top and now desperately trying to pump that shit to get out and dump it on the next sucker.

Where are the fucking screenshots of your holding and transactions?

Crickets.
485   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 1:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Why would I want to prove to someone what I bought, hold or sold? What would be a reason/benefit for me to do that?

And why are you cussing :)?
486   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 1:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
If you are too lazy to enter the data

How about a round number? $20,000 $50,000 $100,000? About how much is your

Newbie123 says
portfolio


Worth approximately? Are you a player or just another cryptofool?
487   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 1:52pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I already gave you an answer and I returned a question, what would be a reason or benefit in giving you this info?
488   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 1:53pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
your coins are stored on a hardware wallet

Crypto wallets don't hold coins.

A lot of suckers go for the terminology: "coins", "mining", "currency", "digital gold", "wallet"

I wonder if you even understand how blockchain works?
489   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 2:01pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yes, most people are very confused but it’s okay. As long as they try to learn and let others educate them. I correct people as much as I can, but often you have to simplify it a bit for them.

It’s like the guy (onvacation) who said Libra is not on a blockchain or the other guy (wookie”man”) who got confused when I explained you don’t leave your crypto on an exchange but you use the exchange to purchase it.
490   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 2:02pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Why would I want to prove to someone what I bought, hold or sold? What would be a reason/benefit for me to do that?

So we can tell how big a fool you are.
491   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 2:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sry, but that doesn’t work for me :)
492   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 2:06pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie, no investor ever tells others how to make a fortune. Because if it was so simple, you'd do it yourself and be so filthy rich you wouldn't even post for yourself. But yet here you are, probably broke too, begging others to join your losses.

This isn't an idiot forum where people will just believe you just because you said something. Reminds me of this scammer we had locally who used similar tactic selling multi level marketing stuff.
493   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 2:37pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Libra is not on a blockchain

Libra is an idea in development that will use a new programming language. The proposed data structure does not use blocks like bitcoin. The proposed facebook coin has little in common with bitcoin.

This is all academic as Libra is vaporware at this point.
494   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 3:02pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Nobody said it will be similar to bitcoin! Libra is centralized, bitcoin is fully decentralized. I know you want to learn but really, how many times? ;)
495   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 3:11pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayneIndiana says
Newbie, no investor ever tells others how to make a fortune. Because if it was so simple, you'd do it yourself and be so filthy rich you wouldn't even post for yourself. But yet here you are, probably broke too, begging others to join your losses.

This isn't an idiot forum where people will just believe you just because you said something. Reminds me of this scammer we had locally who used similar tactic selling multi level marketing stuff.


Johnwayne,
I am not here to sell anything. Yes I do believe bitcoin will go up in value over time (a lot). And I am not trying to make others believe anything. I said multiple times I am not here to convince anybody.
I am entertained by the lack of knowledge (crypto) and I do correct people if they are wildly incorrect. I also get a kick out of what bitcoin haters post. Again, I have zero issue with you saying bitcoin is snake oil or a ponzi or whatever. I keep posting news, articles, updates, random stuff, whatever. If some joker is annoyed by that, why even read my posts? Isn’t the ignore button for this? Personally, i think some people just can’t take the fact that bitcoin isn’t going away. :) and it’s fun.
496   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 3:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
I am entertained by the lack of knowledge

So are we. Time will school you.
497   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 3:16pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Yes I do believe bitcoin will go up in value over time (a lot).

What makes you think that? What makes bitcoin valuable?

Again, I don't expect any answers. Ignorance is bliss until it kicks you in the wallet.
498   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 3:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
it’s fun.

I too enjoy trolling. It's fun seeing the cognitive dissonance when you present some people with facts.
499   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 3:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Exactly, time will tell!!
As mentioned in the past, Bitcoin was called dead many, many times before and look where we are!
Even the US President tweets about bitcoin!! Are you kidding me, you just can’t get rid of it...the opposite will happen IMO.

Disclaimer: No, not trying to sell you a bitcoin! I am not selling, I am accumulating more.
500   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 3:21pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
FortWayneIndiana says
Newbie, no investor ever tells others how to make a fortune. Because if it was so simple, you'd do it yourself and be so filthy rich you wouldn't even post for yourself. But yet here you are, probably broke too, begging others to join your losses.

This isn't an idiot forum where people will just believe you just because you said something. Reminds me of this scammer we had locally who used similar tactic selling multi level marketing stuff.


Johnwayne,
I am not here to sell anything. Yes I do believe bitcoin will go up in value over time (a lot). And I am not trying to make others believe anything. I said multiple times I am not here to convince anybody.
I am entertained by the lack of knowledge (crypto) and I do correct people if they are wildly incorrect. I also get a kick out of what bitcoin haters post. Again, I have zero issue with you saying bitcoin is s...


51% attack. Explain why it can’t destroy bitcoin? Explain why a government, especially the US couldn’t drop a couple billion and out mine anyone else and essentially destroy the blockchain in the process? $30 billion is getting a snickers bar for the US government and it likely wouldn’t have to be approved by Congress if it’s for “national security.” What “miner” could compete with that capital?

Not one and you know it. Counter this fact with something intelligent.
501   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 3:25pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
I am accumulating more.

Why? Do you expect to sell it to the next greatest fool or the last greatest fool?

But for belief, bitcoin is worthless. At least with silver and gold you get to hold a "barbarous relic".
502   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 3:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
Counter this fact with something intelligent.

Yeah, something intelligent!
503   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 3:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Btw, johnwayne,
I didn’t think I would have to say or explain that. You can’t have any losses if you don’t sell. It’s like you buy a house today and the market corrects 5%. So what, it’s just book value.
I dollar cost avg into bitcoin (since years). Just look at the charts....it’s been profitable to dollar cost avg into btc 98.2% of the time since creation.
I don’t sell btc. For now. maybe I sell some if we hit 50-100k. Will see.
504   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 3:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
You can’t have any losses if you don’t sell.


Are you this dense? You can’t have any gains either if you don’t sell! Wtf are you even talking about at this point? Pump, pump, pump said your dad to your sister. Jesus.
505   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 5:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
Newbie123 says
I am accumulating more.

Why?
.


Why wouldn’t you? It’s the best investment in 2019. In what are you invested? Gold?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/amazing-bitcoin-2019-top-performing-203042368.html
506   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 6:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
It’s the best investment in 2019.

Why? What makes bitcoin such a great investment?
507   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 6:10pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

That’s easy to explain. more demand than supply results in higher prices. It’s by default deflationary. Plus, nobody can take it away from you. You are your own bank.
508   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 17, 6:38pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
You are your own bank.

Do you still think your "wallet" contains "coins"?
509   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 6:59pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

When you hold your private keys on a hardware wallet, you are your own bank. It’s also called a cold storage, meaning it’s not connected to the internet. You are in control.

I have trezor and ledger
https://trezor.io
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s

If you only invest a few hundred bucks you might as well leave it on the exchange. Any significant crypto investments should be Secured with a hardware wallet.
510   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 17, 7:21pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

great speech.

511   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 18, 6:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

NC Congressman Patrick McHenry:

"The world that Satoshi Nakamoto, author of the bitcoin white paper, envisioned is an unstoppable force. We should not attempt to deter this innovation ... those who have tried have already failed."
512   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 19, 6:42pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Some useful info regarding crypto taxes and FBAR

https://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2019/07/18/bitcoin-irs-takes-on-the-crooksand-the-good-guys/amp/

As adoption of cryptos is quickly increasing, tax laws can change relative quickly as well. If you buy through a US based exchange, don’t even think about not paying taxes. The IRS has your trading history already.
513   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 21, 7:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

#dropgold

514   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2019 Jul 21, 8:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

How you gonna make digital gold into wedding rings?

Can bitcoin exist without REAL silver and gold?

A fool and his (sorry for assuming gender) money are soon parted.
516   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Jul 31, 10:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Pretty entertaining to watch. I do like Peter Schiff....and his gold card.

517   WookieMan   ignore (4)   2019 Aug 1, 3:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Newbie123 says
Pretty entertaining to watch. I do like Peter Schiff....and his gold card.


Right? I mean right? Jesus, he's unlistenable. Was there not a better bitcoin pumper they could have found?

The WWII cigarette analogy destroyed this "debate" around 19:00. Right?

This guy seriously just argued around 27:00 that you should trust a google search algorithm. lol! Right?

I'm not a gold bug, but Schiff destroys this guy. Right?

The debate is useless though without anyone disclosing their holdings. Both are pumping what they want to increase in price. Although I'd take gold before bitcoin...



Right?
518   Newbie123   ignore (0)   2019 Aug 4, 10:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Going to the gym is like stacking bitcoin.....you’ll never regret it.

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