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We need foreign medical school graduates


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2017 Oct 7, 11:37am   2,418 views  14 comments

by tovarichpeter   ➕follow (6)   💰tip   ignore  

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/06/upshot/america-is-surprisingly-reliant-on-foreign-medical-graduates.html?hpw&rref=upshot&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-regionĀ®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=794CCEB2F8E9C2CBF6F8EB0FE5D737A8&gwt=pay

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1   Blurtman   2017 Oct 7, 1:18pm  

Would you go to a Caribbean medical school educated physician?

3   Ceffer   2017 Oct 7, 5:27pm  

They are said to wield a pitchfork more handily and are much more easily bribed.
4   anonymous   2017 Oct 7, 5:46pm  

Blurtman says
Would you go to a Caribbean medical school educated physician?



My father went to med school in Mexico. You didn't really have to do much to get your degree. In fact, some people pretty much just bought them for $250 cash at that time. However, the AMA has such a stranglehold on the system, they make the entrance exams and residency requirements way more difficult for foreign doctors. Anyone that goes through that is likely qualified. He basically learned everything he needed to know studying for the entrance exams and during residency.
5   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Oct 7, 7:24pm  

The problem is the number of residencies, which should be doubled, but their work hours restricted to 40 per week.
6   bob2356   2017 Oct 7, 7:57pm  

anonymous says
However, the AMA has such a stranglehold on the system, they make the entrance exams and residency requirements way more difficult for foreign doctors


Fiction. There is only 1 version of the USMLE. There is only one set of residency requirements. The AMA is not the body that controls either. The only requirement for foreign grads is to submit their USMLE scores, ID, and medical school transcript to be certified by the ECFMG. That's not a test, it's a check for validity.

The last 2 years of med school are clinical. How did your father pick up the 2 years of day in and day out hands on clinical skills needed to pass USMLE step 2 clinical skills test after not doing much to get a degree? My wife's cousin went to Universidad Autonoma de Guadalajara Medicine and worked his ass off to get his MD. Sounds like more fiction.
7   bob2356   2017 Oct 7, 8:01pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says
The problem is the number of residencies, which should be doubled, but their work hours restricted to 40 per week.


I've seen 3 people in my family go through a residency. There is no way to pick up the skills needed at 40 hours a week unless residency length doubled. The amount of work and training involved is just unreal.
8   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Oct 7, 8:07pm  

bob2356 says
I've seen 3 people in my family go through a residency. There is no way to pick up the skills needed at 40 hours a week unless residency length doubled. The amount of work and training involved is just unreal.


Then let the residency continue longer.

I don't want exhausted people who aren't qualified to work without supervision taking care of people. There's no reason people handling life and death issues should be half-asleep while working.

The concept of long, hard hours under fatigue develops proficiency faster is thoroughly debunked by countless studies across a myriad of industries. We still allow doctors to wear bacteria collection rags (aka Ties) when dealing with patients, and we don't ruthlessly discipline them - up to and including suspension like Australia - for not washing their hands between clients. If only they weren't under such time pressure...


US Hospitals are infamous for infection and other problems compared to other systems, and we may be undercounting them.
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/03/health/medical-error-a-leading-cause-of-death/index.html
9   theoakman   2017 Oct 7, 8:27pm  

This was in the 70s buddy. And my father went to bed school in Just....which is why I was born in El Paso. Here's some food for thought. My father didn't speak Spanish yet got through the program. What was he going to learn if he can't even speak the language. He worked his ass off too. Just on his own.

When he did his residency in NJ, it was six years for prenatal care and he was required to do another 3 on top of that for having a foreign degree.

the ama doesn't have to control anything. They use their influence to constrain supply as much as they can.

I'd ask him for more specific info but I haven't been on speaking terms with him for half of a decade
10   Ceffer   2017 Oct 7, 8:31pm  

Medical Residencies still operate on the basis of traditional Midieval apprenticeship, and a lot of teaching hospitals couldn't operate without the cheap labor.

The idea of working somebody until they are punch drunk, staggering, drooling and pretending to be awake is considered a rite of passage, albeit antiquated and bizarre, since it is not exactly geared towards stimulating altruism, compassion and kindness in the residents.
11   bob2356   2017 Oct 7, 8:34pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says
I don't want exhausted people who aren't qualified to work without supervision taking care of people. There's no reason people handling life and death issues should be half-asleep while working.


I didn't say anything about wanting exhausted people. The abusive programs that work people into sleep deprivation shouldn't be allowed. But you can work a lot more than 40 hours a week without being exhausted.

TwoScoopsMcGee says
We still allow doctors to wear bacteria collection rags (aka Ties) when dealing with patients, and we don't ruthlessly discipline them - up to and including suspension like Australia - for not washing their hands between clients. If only they weren't under such time pressure...


I'm all for hospitals and doctors following best practices. That will never happen with corporate medicine and hospitals enormous corporate lobbying power to prevent any kind of oversight.. You've been one of the big supporters of the free enterprise medical system and getting rid of regulations. Are you supporting a public health system with government oversight like Australia now? Do you stand by your core values or not? If you don't think hospitals aren't lobbying the HHS under trump to roll back all sorts of rules that affect their bottom line then you are a fool. Sorry kid, but you can't have it both ways.
12   bob2356   2017 Oct 8, 4:52am  

theoakman says
This was in the 70s buddy. And my father went to bed school in Just....which is why I was born in El Paso. Here's some food for thought. My father didn't speak Spanish yet got through the program. What was he going to learn if he can't even speak the language. He worked his ass off too. Just on his own.

When he did his residency in NJ, it was six years for prenatal care and he was required to do another 3 on top of that for having a foreign degre


This gets funnier and funnier. So your father managed to pass all the tests given in a language he didn't speak. That's really impressive. Then dd 9 years of residency when there is no residency program for prenatal care and never has been. Ob's and gp's do pre natal care. Residency in the 70's was 3 years and 2 years respectively.

Keep on going, this is great stuff.
13   Blurtman   2017 Oct 8, 5:13am  

What about osteopaths?

I see more and more docs from India who'll further their chops in the US and then move up to a nice spot at a prestigious center.
14   Shaman   2017 Oct 8, 6:13am  

What I really want is a doctor who I can't understand performing procedures learned from a fourth-rate pay-to-play medical school in another language. That's the best kind of medical care around!




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