patrick.net

I see what you mean, reminds me of the democrats.

indigenous says

I see what you mean, reminds me of the democrats.

Cause Democrats base environmental policy on the Bible? I guess things remind you of their opposites.

Dan8267 says

Cause Democrats base environmental policy on the Bible? I guess things remind you of their opposites.

I just think these guys should be required to be sober before they go on the show, Democrats although more sober are just as idiotic.

"We have to pass it to find out what is in it", type shit

indigenous says

Democrats although more sober are just as idiotic.

There is nothing more idiotic than basing policy on the Bible.

A very short book.

Dan8267 says

There is nothing more idiotic than basing policy on the Bible.

Your disrespect of other people's religion is tantamount to someone disrespecting your belief that sexual preference should be respected, no diff.

indigenous says

Your disrespect of other people's religion is tantamount to someone disrespecting your belief that sexual preference should be respected, no diff.

Huge difference. A book that advocates murder of innocents is a bad source of morality. When Muslims "honor kill" their daughters for being raped, moral outrage is the correct response. When Christians shout out "God hates fags" at the funerals of soldiers, moral outrage is the correct response.

A system of lies, no matter how popular or how much some people devoutly believe in those lies, should not be respected.

In contrast, the marriage equality movement is about civil and human rights. To equate gay bashing with logical arguments disproving religion and pointing out the harm it does, particularly when religion infiltrates secular governments, is utterly ridiculous and completely different.

You equate a very small percentage of religious zealots with an entire religion, that makes sense, NOT.

Liberal believers enable Nutcases by keeping God and his Bronze Age Bonzer authored books alive.

Case in point: Let's say Jesus was the Original Hippie. The Medieval Church, the Orangemen, and assorted Phelps (who I think is running a scam to provoke then sue under 1st Amendment), etc. all grew from those Jesus teachings anyway.

The #1 recruiting ground for religious fruitcake orgs isn't atheists, it's former liberal sect members.

thunderlips11 says

Phelps

What is that?

indigenous says

You equate a very small percentage of religious zealots with an entire religion, that makes sense, NOT.

1/3rd of Americans. That's large enough, especially when they write laws based on their false religion.

Dan8267 says

1/3rd of Americans. That's large enough, especially when they write laws based on their false religion.

1/3 are not whack jobs. Natural law is mentioned quite a few times by the framers.

indigenous says

thunderlips11 says

Phelps

What is that?

Phelps is the "God hates Fags" guy. I think whenever he needs money, he protests funerals and shit until some town/government acts against him. Then, he sues for millions.

indigenous says

1/3 are not whack jobs. Natural law is mentioned quite a few times by the framers.

Damn, one third is an understimation

According to a survey done by the First Amendment Center, 55% of Americans think that the Constitution actually establishes America as a Christian Nation while 65% believe that America's founders intended America to be a Christian Nation. Rather than correct people and tell them the truth, John McCain simply nods and agrees with them

n U.S., 42% Believe Creationist View of Human Origins

73% are knuckleheads

Only 20 percent of Americans surveyed believe in Big Bang

Scientists express dismay at an Associated Press/GfK survey that suggests skepticism of science is still strong. Only 20 percent of Americans believe in the Big Bang. Less than one-third of Americans said they thought climate change was real.

1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth

46% of Americans think that sexual orientation is a choice

30% of Americans think the Bible is literally true
Yeah, Noah's ark is a documentary to these people.

We live in a country of dumb people, and it affects how our government works.

You are an atheist then? Spirituality doesn't exist? That is what Ayn Rand believed.

Yet you are offended when they disrespect your beliefs, which are just as disdained, as you are towards their's.

- You are an atheist then?
Not by choice, but by logical necessity.

- Spirituality doesn't exist?
No it doesn't. Neither do unicorns or leprechauns. Any adult who believes in unicorns and leprechauns is an idiot. Any adult who believes that two of each of every animal species were put onto an ark is also an idiot for the exact same reason.

A socially accepted delusion is still a delusion, and by definition, a mental disorder. Believing that a guardian angel is looking over you is just as crazy as believing that you are Napoleon. And basing U.S. policy on religion is just as dangerous as basing that policy on your desire to invade Russia in the winter.

- That is what Ayn Rand believed.
And Hitler believed that highways were important. Does that mean anyone who drives on a highway supports Hitler's views on anything else?

- Yet you are offended when they disrespect your beliefs
Correction. I know the Earth revolves around the sun; I don't have faith that it does. And it does not offend me that other people do now know this; it worries me, especially when those people vote. Dumb voters are the reason we have bad politicians. Bad politicians are the reason we have bad laws, unjust laws, and economic downturns.

Dan8267 says

No it doesn't.

How do you know?

Dan8267 says

Dumb voters are the reason we have bad politicians.

Especially here in Calif

Dan8267 says

Bad politicians are the reason we have bad laws, unjust laws, and economic downturns.

How do you know which one to vote for?

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Religion has its uses.

Chicks dig fucking on the altars of burning churches.

And you know this how?

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Chicks dig fucking on the altars of burning churches.

Are they alive or dead? If the latter how do you know they dig it?

Fuck this panty-waist shit.

I want real, hard baked, pro-wife-beating candidates I can choose from.

No more half measures.

Until a GOP debate includes zingers like "We talked about her feelings - she doesn't have any on the left side of her face!", true conservatism has no meaning.

These guys might too Liberal in the deep south where I live! Hilarious though!

The same thing applies to Democrat politicians that represent rank and file democrats. I do live in a very blue state, but no liberal I know approves of most of the stupid stuff that our liberal politicians do.

New Renter says

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Religion has its uses.

Chicks dig fucking on the altars of burning churches.

And you know this how?

Standard rite of passage in high school and college - I've been hit by chunks of flaming cross a couple of times.

Where did you grow up?

indigenous says

How do you know?

A priori logic and the laws of nature. Feel free to browse my prior mathematical proof that no omnipotent god exists, no omniscient god exists, and no supernatural god could observe or communicate with any person or natural object.

indigenous says

How do you know which one to vote for?

On the Issues

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Religion has its uses.

Chicks dig fucking on the altars of burning churches.

Ew, the same altars where the priests spluged all over with the altar boys. Pass.

Dan8267 says

laws of nature

What if they are a manifestation of God? What if the entire universe is a manifestation of God?Dan8267 says

and no supernatural god could observe or communicate with any person or natural object.

that is an assertion or an assumption. Dan8267 says

On the Issues

How is that working for you? How close has Obama come to doing what he said he was going to regarding the issues?

HydroCabron says

I want real, hard baked, pro-wife-beating candidates I can choose from.

You want Texas Republican Clayton Williams

It's like the weather. If it's inevitable, just relax and enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/OY3mWJ1Cd0Y

Mark says

These guys might too Liberal in the deep south where I live! Hilarious though!

You can tell how deep into the South you are by counting the missing teeth in the people around you.

zzyzzx says

the stupid stuff that our liberal politicians do.

We have liberal politicians? I find that hard to believe. Care to list a few and I'll evaluate how liberal they are and why.

Dan8267 says

We have liberal politicians? I find that hard to believe. Care to list a few and I'll evaluate how liberal they are and why.

Jerry Brown

Nancy Pelosi

Barbera Boxer

indigenous says

What if they are a manifestation of God? What if the entire universe is a manifestation of God

Then god is bounded by the laws of nature including "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" as well as all of the conservation laws. To say otherwise is to discard all the laws of nature. The laws of nature do not have any exceptions or loopholes.

Again, see my prior posts if you want more details. I could write another summary of proofs against monotheist gods, but I don't have time and there is little I'd add to what I've already written.

indigenous says

that is an assertion or an assumption.

As I stated, I've proven these things in prior threads. See them for the details. The statement is an inescapable conclusion.

indigenous says

How is that working for you? How close has Obama come to doing what he said he was going to regarding the issues?

Pretty damn well. When Obama ran in the Democratic primary, I looked up his voting record. He wasn't a senator when the vile USA Patriot Act was passed, but he was a senator when it was extended even after we knew it lead to torture. Obama voted in favor of that act, which is why I never supported him. I regret nothing.

I also never supported Hilary Clinton because she voted for that despicable, Unamerican act while she was a senator.

So, On the Issues has been damn useful and reliable.

Dan8267 says

Then god is bounded by the laws of nature including "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" as well as all of the conservation laws.

Not true, is Stalin bound by the rules he created for the Russian people?

Dan8267 says

So, On the Issues has been damn useful and reliable.

Who were you for?

Dan8267 says

As I stated, I've proven these things in prior threads. See them for the details. The statement is an inescapable conclusion.

TLTR/L

indigenous says

Not

If you want to debate the god fallacy, we can do so on another thread.

How Truly Liberal Are They
Facts from OnTheIssues.org

Jerry Brown
Affirmations of Liberal Philosophy
1. The right to marry is sacred for gay and straight people.
2. Major reductions in our prison population.
3. Cracked down on violent gangs.
4. Vetoed prosecutor discretion on drugs
5. Vetoed considering demographics in college admissions.
6. Let people vote to avoid cutting schools & colleges.

Violations of Liberal Philosophy
1. Follow advice from Book of Genesis
2. keep it (drug crimes) a felony
3. No government-imposed standards for public schools.
4. Consider subsidiarity: central authority only if local fails.
5. $25B for water-shortage farmland.
6. Traditional sexual morality looks reasonable due to STDs.
7. Profound truth about human nature in orthodox tradition.

My Conclusion
Jerry Brown is a centralist, not a liberal.

On the Issue's Conclusion

Nancy Pelosi
Affirmations of Liberal Philosophy
1. Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines.
2. Voted NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman.
3. Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent.
4. Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance.
5. Voted NO on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration.
6. Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC.
7. Voted YES on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons.
8. Voted YES on maintaining right of habeas corpus in Death Penalty Appeals.
9. Opposes requiring schools to allow school prayer.
10. Voted NO on extending the PATRIOT Act's roving wiretaps.
11. Voted NO on allowing electronic surveillance without a warrant.
12. Voted NO on continuing intelligence gathering without civil oversight.
13. Voted YES on establishing "network neutrality"
14. Voted NO on banning Internet gambling by credit card.

Violations of Liberal Philosophy
1. Voted YES on modifying bankruptcy rules to avoid mortgage foreclosures.
2. Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler.
3. Marble ceiling: Congress is very male-oriented society.
4. Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act.
Yes, this is not liberal because the act hypocritically violates equal protection under law.

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, sex, gender identity (as defined in paragraph 249(c)(4) of title 18, United States Code), sexual orientation, or disability, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity funded in whole or in part with funds made available under the Violence Against Women Act of 1994…

Yet throughout the act, in both titles and details, the act specifically addresses "women", not "persons", thereby making male victims of violent crimes including domestic violence unequal under law. A liberal would insist that every occurrence of the word "woman" be replace by the word "person" so that the law does not discriminate on the basis of gender and violate equality under law.
5. Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions.
6. Voted YES on requiring FISA warrants for wiretaps in US, but not abroad.
7. Voted YES on increasing fines for indecent broadcasting.

My Conclusion

Although Pelosi has many liberal policy decisions, she also has quite a few deal breakers that would prevent any sane person from considering her a liberal in any sense of the word. Some of her policies are draconian such as spying and discrimination.

On the Issue's Conclusion

I consider OTI's conclusion to be flawed because OTI's algorithm is simply adding up "liberal points" and subtracting "conservative points", which is not a valid mathematical model of politics. For example, let's say Hitler passed nine policies that were pro-Jewish and one policy, the Holocaust, which was anti-Jewish. That wouldn't make him 90% pro-Jewish. Straight out arithmetic may be simple, but it doesn't make it an appropriate model for everything.

Before some idiot than harks about how bad OTI must is, be aware that the value in OTI is the accurate recording of the facts, not the pretty picture at the bottom of the screen.

Barbara Boxer
Affirmations of Liberal Philosophy
1. Full equality only with same-sex marriage.
2. Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration.
3. Voted YES on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation.
4. Voted NO on limiting death penalty appeals.
5. Voted NO on restricting class-action lawsuits.
6. Voted NO on mandatory prison terms for crimes involving firearms.
7. Voted YES on requiring FISA court warrant to monitor US-to-foreign calls.
8. Voted YES on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods.
9. Repeal Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell, and reinstate discharged gays.
10. Restore habeas corpus for detainees in the War on Terror.
11. Ensure net neutrality: no corporate-tiered Internet.

Violations of Liberal Philosophy
1. Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act.
2. Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping.
3. Voted YES on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women.
4. Voted NO on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business.
5. Voted NO on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds.
6. Voted YES on extending the PATRIOT Act's roving wiretaps.
7. Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act.
8. Require websites to police for copyrighted materials.

My Conclusion

Same as Pelosi, too many deal killers to be a liberal in any sense of the word.

On the Issue's Conclusion

Same reason as Pelosi on that as well.

So, it looks like indigenous's idea of the poster children of liberalism aren't at all liberal. What a surprise.

Dan8267 says

If you want to debate the god fallacy, we can do so on another thread.

Nope just a point of logic that if something can create something he does not have to abide by it's rules...

indigenous says

Who were you for?

Elizabeth Warren and William Black, not because of their social issues, which are largely untested, but because of their economic policies. I don't know if either would be a liberal because there's too little history of their social stances and liberalism has nothing to do with economic policy.

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

If you want to debate the god fallacy, we can do so on another thread.

Nope just a point of logic that if something can create something he does not have to abide by it's rules...

Your logic is flawed. Nature, by definition, has to abide by natural laws. The interaction between any god and nature is, by definition, part of natural phenomenon and must obey all natural laws including all conservation laws and thus is subject to scientific scrutiny.