patrick.net

"Obama actually did kill Osama where Bush failed, and Obama didn't start any wars."

Those opinions are simply are not acceptable to the right wing, ever.

(OK, that last one is fact rather than opinion.)

LOL! so typical of you...

You mean to say when Obama came to office, prior 'seek and destroy' order by Bush were canceled and all prior leads were ignored. And going forward Obama's new orders to 'seek and destroy' were carried out... start from scratch.

Or was it the same orders 'seek and destroy' were carried out ... it was the CIA and security forces that found and killed OBL who had standing orders since 2001.

It was all a matter of time...

Shows how political correctness stifles debate -- and how the right wing does it too, maybe even more so.

The right wing stifles honest debate by making up bullshit, repeating lies as facts, and refusing to accept any real fact no matter how absolutely certain it is. In other words, the right does not debate but simply contradicts.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/kQFKtI6gn9Y

The left, however, is definitely full of politically correct whores. And that's a different set of problems. Juan Williams should never had been fired for honestly expressing a personal concern regardless of whether or not that concern was justified. Political correctness is vile and despicable.

Dan8267 says

The left, however, is definitely full of politically correct whores.

It has less to do with "Political Correctness" in the sense people thinks it does. And more to do with Political Conditioning, for the sake of winning the argument. If you're not allowed to voice your opinion, then there's only one view.

When Political Correctness fails, to silence opposition, then it's Racism, when that fails then it's Class warfare and the damn 1%'ers, when that fails then it's far right wing religious people's fault. Even though attendance in any church denomination has NEVER been lower, EVER!
When that fails it's assault people's health and call them stupid.
You know for the life of me, I can't figure out why the Left hates FOX so bad. At least FOX likes people.

The extreme left is filled with holier than thou whackadoodles. They try to legislate -or rather have successfully legislated- human behaviour. In the entire history of the world, there has never been so much government control over individual families, their livelihoods, how much they are supposed to spend and even how much time they get to spend with their own kids. How they are supposed to raise their kids is now determined by the government -in case one party disagrees.

The right wing on the other hand tries to legislate things like abortion, gays and birth control-they seem to succeed less and less and act like knuckle dragging neandrathals-at least the likes of Akin, Limbaugh and Murdoch. They fail over and over again and in turn make the left even more powerful in their quest to create this utopian society-where no one should fail and all should be equal-nothwithstanding that communism has been a spectacular failure.

lostand confused says

The extreme left is filled with holier than thou whackadoodles. They try to legislate -or rather have successfully legislated- human behaviour. In the entire history of the world, there has never been so much government control over individual families, their livelihoods, how much they are supposed to spend and even how much time they get to spend with their own kids. How they are supposed to raise their kids is now determined by the government -in case one party disagrees.

The right wing on the other hand tries to legislate things like abortion, gays and birth control-they seem to succeed less and less and act like knuckle dragging neandrathals-at least the likes of Akin, Limbaugh and Murdoch. They fail over and over again and in turn make the left even more powerful in their quest to create this utopian society-where no one should fail and all should be equal-nothwithstanding that communism has been a spectacular failure.

That sums it up nicely. Well said.

lostand confused says

In the entire history of the world, there has never been so much government control over individual families, their livelihoods, how much they are supposed to spend and even how much time they get to spend with their own kids. How they are supposed to raise their kids is now determined by the government -in case one party disagrees.

lostand confused says

The right wing on the other hand tries to legislate things like abortion, gays and birth control-they seem to succeed less and less and act like knuckle dragging neandrathals-at least the likes of Akin, Limbaugh and Murdoch.

Yeah but the difference in the two is, in the first description, these are actual politicians effecting real peoples lives.
Where as the second group you're complaining about are Entertainers, and have no baring on peoples lives what so ever.

Obama is still president when I change the channel or turn off the TV.

lostand confused says

The right wing on the other hand tries to legislate things like abortion, gays and birth control-they seem to succeed less and less and act like knuckle dragging neandrathals-at least the likes of Akin, Limbaugh and Murdoch.

Yea, the group who hates government, protests loudly and endlessly that government picks winners and losers, and that same government needs to get out of everybody's lives, they want to use the very same government and it's powers to go between women's legs and pry into every bedroom,s solely because the right hates cretain groups of people.
Irony at it's best.

CaptainShuddup says

when that fails then it's far right wing religious people's fault. Even though attendance in any church denomination has NEVER been lower, EVER!

You just blew a massive hole in (your)the right wing mantra that this is somehow a christian nation, and that you need to take it back or something. You know the dogma, whereas sinning is resposible for hurricanes and tornadoes or whatever.

upisdown says

You just blew a massive hole in (your)the right wing mantra that this is somehow a christian nation, and that you need to take it back or something. You know the dogma, whereas sinning is resposible for hurricanes and tornadoes or whatever.

The only two people that have any idea what in the hell you're talking about is Glen Beck and you.
While Glen Beck is an entertainer, where as you OTH, I have no idea why your Telly remote has FOX and Trinity Network on the favorites line up.

I'm pretty sure it has been anyone but conservatives that put legalized dope or male/male coupling on a ballot in California. So, one can't accuse the mythical right (which is actually just the "normal") of taking any action other than reacting. Kinda like Isreal has to react to the actions of the murdering thug arabs. Interesting how the left thinks Isreal should not defend itself, much like they hate to see Christians defend their convictions.

Now, it is true that California conservatives did put Prop 187 on the ballot, and it passed, and an activist liberal leftist judge halted the vote of the people. I wonder, how the leftists in Cal would react if one of their pet props passed at the ballot box but was then halted by a court ... hmmm ... funny, that just aint happened. The left relys on court, not the right. The right gets beat-up in court due to the liberal bias and constitution revesionists that populate the court system.

As for Political Correctness, the leftists can spew hate about Palin in the most crude of ways and get cheers and a raise, Imus can say nappy and almost get fired, Jimmy the Greek did get fired for saying an absolute fact. I can't find where a leftist was let go for spewing more leftist hate. Anywhere in America. THe left has no standards of behavior, other than hate Christians, hate straight white males, hate conservative values, hate right, hate good, hate honest, hate morality, hate Isreal, hate God ,... the left is the couldron of hate. Up is down in this world infected with liberalism and drug abuse.

CaptainShuddup says

Obama is still president when I change the channel or turn off the TV.

This is exactly why you should have protested when Bush and his cronies stole the election in 2000. Al Gore was elected by any proper counting of electoral votes. Had he become president as the votes said, then Obama would have never even been picked by Harry Reid to run for president.

See, you could have had an Obama-free America. All you had to do was refrain from releasing the Bush/Cheney evil administration on the world.

Bap33 says

THe left has no standards of behavior, other than hate Christians, hate straight white males, hate conservative values, hate right, hate good, hate honest, hate morality, hate Isreal, hate God ,... the left is the couldron of hate. Up is down in this world infected with liberalism and drug abuse.

Yes, they have discovered you can do a lot with a little hate.

Dan8267 says

Al Gore was elected by any proper counting of electoral votes. Had he become president as the votes said, then Obama would have never even been picked by Harry Reid to run for president.

Nope! that's not how it went down at all. That was AFTER the Nader nation told the Left to go get bent for blaming us for not voting for Al give me a fucking break Gore. They spent a whole week blaming us, like we would have gotten off the couch if Nader hadn't run in the election.
After that went no where they then started blaming the GOP for winning.

NOW the fundamental difference between 2000 and 2012, the Republicans aren't calling for a recount, recall or any other Liberal concoction to silent the voice of those spoken. We're more dissapointed in the gullible poor and Hispanics for believing that Obama is going to do anything for them. They should have asked the youth.

Even with the Liberal Victory nothing in Washington can get done with out John Boehner's permission. So tell me, who won?

Gotta go Papa Boehner is calling.
" Hey John can we have higher taxes on the top 1%?"
"FUCK NO!"
Well can't blame a guy for asking...

Bap33 says

THe left has no standards of behavior, other than hate Christians, hate straight white males, hate conservative values, hate right, hate good, hate honest, hate morality, hate Isreal, hate God ,... the left is the couldron of hate. Up is down in this world infected with liberalism and drug abuse.

On Christians

Hating Christians who hate fags and others is perfectly ok. 2000 years of utterly disguising and evil behavior from the Inquisition to the Holocaust certainly justifies hatred.

When Christians stop behaving so abysmally, I'll start to respect them.

On hatred of the white man

Granted I'm not a leftist, but you often use the terms left and liberal as if they meant the same thing, so... I don't hate straight, white men. Last time I check, I was a straight, white man. It's just that I don't hate gay, black men either. I don't see it as a zero-sum game.

Now the left is certainly guilty of man hating and race-baiting. So I can't defend them on that. However, the right is also guilty of gay hating and racism. And really, aren't these things all the same thing, bigotry?

On conservative values

Conservative values used to mean self-reliance, putting back more than you took, and working hard and honestly. Today, none of these things is true.

Conservatives promote corporate welfare and the largest socialist jobs program, the defense industry, which produces no wealth and in fact destroys wealth and global stability. Conservatives do not value self-reliance no matter how much lip service they pay to it. I, however, do.

Conservatives are pro-pollution because it increases profit margins for corporations by shifting the costs of production from the corporation to society at large (something that Bap says should be consider immoral because it goes against the interest of the groups -- oh wait, that's gay sex). Polluting is the very essence of taking more than you put back. It diminishes the world.

Consuming non-renewable resources like fossil fuels also diminishes the world and is taking more than you put back. A true conservative, by the old standards, would be very much against fossil fuel use.

Finally, as demonstrated by Wall Street and the banks, conservatives most certainly don't believe in honesty or hard work. In fact, the conservative dream is to gain as much wealth while doing as little honest, hard work as possible.

No, today "conservative values" is just code for bigotry against gays, all non-whites, all non-Christians, and all foreigners. That's why conservative values are a joke to everyone who isn't a conservative.

On right, good, honest, and morality

Conservatives have such a fucked up view of what these things are, it's no wonder that everyone else in the world has opposing ideas on this.

On Israel

I live in Boca Raton. Most of the Jews here vote democrat and are very left of what you consider the center. I hear Hollywood is full of liberal and leftist Jews. I don't think you have much ground to stand on.

On god

God doesn't exist. Therefore it is impossible to hate him. I can't hate Moby Dick for the same reason.

On drug abuse

The right likes to demonize any drug that isn't patented while letting horrible drugs go to market provided they result in corporate profits. The left simply wants to treat drug addiction as a medical problem rather than a criminal one. The right wants it to be a criminal problem in order to suppress minority votes. The right has no problem electing a coke-head president.

Need I remind you of all the conservatives addicted to legal drugs like Oxycontin.

Dan,

You left out how the white, male christian is oppressed and being screwed over constantly by an unfair and unjust system or society.

In other words, you left out the right's resorting to the victim when they get called out on their BS.

I am not pro pollution. But, the fact that I (my on-line personage) was tossed into the line of fire with a big red target on my back for sharing a conservative view, does not indicate a hate filled leftist/liberal montra of hate at all ... not one bit ... parish the thought.

upisdown says

Dan,

You left out how the white, male christian is oppressed and being screwed over constantly by an unfair and unjust system or society.

In other words, you left out the right's resorting to the victim when they get called out on their BS.

Christians are favored by the law and court systems, and that is clearly wrong.

Whites aren't discriminated against by the police, but white skin won't save your ass from the prison industry. Whites are discriminated against under Affirmative Action, and that is wrong. Just because most CEOs are white doesn't mean most whites are CEOs. Most whites have no privileges. Ditto for male vs. female.

Men are severely discriminated against in the family court system. It's barbaric how men have been treated in that court system for the past 40 years. This is the prime reason that marriage rates have declined so much.

Yes, the right does whine about b.s. that doesn't reflect reality such as Obama being a socialist, their guns being taken away, the war on Christmas, etc. However, there are quire a few violations of civil rights that white men experience. Civil rights ain't a black/white issue, it's a human issue. In order to protect your rights, you have to protect everybody else's.

And the greatest threat to civil rights come from bureaucracies and corporations who don't care about anything but money and power. Skin color and religion mean nothing to those monsters. A simple typo can and has resorted in Swat teams barging in at gunpoint on innocent people. A data entry error could send your ass to some secret foreign torture dungeon courtesy of Uncle Sam.

Bap33 says

I am not pro pollution.

So then, like me, you believe that all of the following should be banned:
- coal production and use
- fracking
- offshore oil drilling
- transportation of oil by ship

nope, I do not agree with all of those limitations as presented.

If you are being dramatic, then don't exhale. If you exhale you are polluting.

man changes matter into energy. That is what the matter's value is.

I do think Tesla had free energy figured out. Anti-gravity too. But, nobody seems to be going that way since the Nazi's stopped reverse engineering the saucers they found.

In the entire history of the world, there has never been so much government control over individual families, their livelihoods, how much they are supposed to spend and even how much time they get to spend with their own kids. How they are supposed to raise their kids is now determined by the government -in case one party disagrees.

'cept for the entire 5000+ year period where we had slavery, serfdom, and various forms of dictatorships ruling the world.

Bap33 says

If you are being dramatic, then don't exhale. If you exhale you are polluting.

Only according to the EPA, and they're just using a loophole in the law to try to deal with a problem. Excessive CO2 is a problem, but CO2 itself isn't a pollutant. The activities that Dan mentioned all result in a lot of very real pollution though, such as oil and other things that are bad for humans to consume getting into the water supply or sulfur getting into the air.

Bap33 says

man changes matter into energy. That is what the matter's value is.

You might want to revisit highschool physics.

Bap33 says

I do think Tesla had free energy figured out. Anti-gravity too. But, nobody seems to be going that way since the Nazi's stopped reverse engineering the saucers they found.

...or reality.

Kevin says

'cept for the entire 5000+ year period where we had slavery, serfdom, and various forms of dictatorships ruling the world.

Nope that affected portions of the population. Dictatorships never went into family law and mandated how much time you spent with your kids and how much money you have to pay to the kid and the ex and force you to maintain them in the life they have been accumsted to.

Slavery, war, kings were all part and parcel of our history-but never was there a system where the governemnt controls each and every citizen and determines what is good for each and every one of them and takes a choice away for everyone.

Not only does an individual-or specifically males-in this country have no freedom in terms of family, we also throw more people in jail than any country in the world. Not even dictatorship come close to us.

Kevin says

Bap33 says

man changes matter into energy. That is what the matter's value is.
You might want to revisit highschool physics.

when you burn a log, you change the matter into energy ... or, you can say you release the energy trapped inside the matter and seperate the matter into diferent compounds, or you can go google it and use that explaination, but what I said is what we do with matter to get energy. We use it. When we use heat, it was created by burning matter -- including El Sol.

Gravity (dam power) and Windmill both rely on magnetics to exchange energy.

You eat an apple, you use the matter and change it into energy.

You shouldn't allow your hate to keep you from having an open mind about Tesla's works, or DiVinci's, or Moses' Ark.

Dan8267 says

And the greatest threat to civil rights come from bureaucracies and corporations who don't care about anything but money and power.

No. The greatest threat to civil rights comes from the belief that money and power are evil.

A perfectly greedy person has no prejudice.

Poverty is not a virtue.

Charity is as much a virtue as a fine painting is.

Reflect on this.

Bap33 says

You shouldn't allow your hate to keep you from having an open mind about Tesla's works, or DiVinci's,

Funny to see Bap write that, since he would have hanged da Vinci (note spelling) for "male/male coupling." Religious fanatics trying to kill everyone who doesn't agree with them, e.g. Bap69 saying liberals and gays are mentally defective and need to be hanged, are a much worse threat than NPR. That isn't to dismiss Juan Williams' legitimate point, but at least Juan remains alive and certainly has not been muzzled; he remains free to debate, unlike those killed by the Inquisition for heresy and those Bap and his ilk would kill if they ever get power again. If Juan becomes the target of a fatwah, or if Bap gets a chance to hang him, NPR may turn out to be the least of his worries.

"Liberal" is just a label.

e.g.

I am a classically liberal neo-liberal. This earns me a "conservative" label in this country.

lostand confused says

Nope that affected portions of the population. Dictatorships never went into family law and mandated how much time you spent with your kids and how much money you have to pay to the kid and the ex and force you to maintain them in the life they have been accumsted to.

Oh, bitter divorcee. Sorry. I've never had a rational argument with one of these, so I won't bother.

lostand confused says

Slavery, war, kings were all part and parcel of our history-but never was there a system where the governemnt controls each and every citizen and determines what is good for each and every one of them and takes a choice away for everyone.

This is true. There has *never* been such a system. I sure hope there never is!

Bap33 says

You shouldn't allow your hate to keep you from having an open mind about Tesla's works, or DiVinci's, or Moses' Ark.

Two of those people were brilliant men with brilliant ideas, one is a fairy tale for children. Making ridiculous claims about things that a legitimate brilliant scientist did is a terrible way to have a discussion.

As far as the rest of your post...you have a very poor grasp of physics. I'm glad to see nothing has changed in the last 4 years.

CaptainShuddup says

NOW the fundamental difference between 2000 and 2012

The difference is that Gore won the popular vote, and arguably won Florida.

This time is no comparison. Obama wins the popular vote by about 3% and the electoral by over 100. What are you talking about ?

You actually think that if it had been so close that Obama only one by one state, and that state was won by a few hundred votes that republicans wouldn't be crying out for a recount ?

Wtf, man ? There are many thousands that are calling for secession !

marcus says

There are many thousands that are calling for secession !

to be fair, most signatories to the petition are liberals wishing the conservatives *would* GTFO.

Just get Ben Bernanke to say there isn't a secession, and the whole business will be forgotten.

CaptainShuddup says

Just get Ben Bernanke to say there isn't a secession, and the whole business will be forgotten

LOL - let Uncle Ben print confederate currency and in 10 years their economy will burst and collapse!

Kevin says

lostand confused says

Nope that affected portions of the population. Dictatorships never went into family law and mandated how much time you spent with your kids and how much money you have to pay to the kid and the ex and force you to maintain them in the life they have been accumsted to.

Oh, bitter divorcee. Sorry. I've never had a rational argument with one of these, so I won't bother.

lostand confused says

Slavery, war, kings were all part and parcel of our history-but never was there a system where the governemnt controls each and every citizen and determines what is good for each and every one of them and takes a choice away for everyone.

This is true. There has *never* been such a system. I sure hope there never is!

Wrong on both counts. I have never been married, though might finally settle down-found a nice woman who makes as much as me. The system is the modern family court system.

But go on cast personal insults-when there are none to be cast and keep talking gibberish-because as usual you have no worthwile arguments.

Kevin says

one is a fairy tale for children.

are you suggesting there was no Hebrew named Moses that led away Hebrew slaves (a historical person) or just not a Moses that did what the Bible said (Ten Commndments, Ark, ect)?

Kevin says

As far as the rest of your post...you have a very poor grasp of physics. I'm glad to see nothing has changed in the last 4 years.

Bap33 says

Kevin says

Bap33 says

man changes matter into energy. That is what the matter's value is.
You might want to revisit highschool physics.

when you burn a log, you change the matter into energy ... or, you can say you release the energy trapped inside the matter and seperate the matter into diferent compounds, or you can go google it and use that explaination, but what I said is what we do with matter to get energy. We use it. When we use heat, it was created by burning matter -- including El Sol.

Gravity (dam power) and Windmill both rely on magnetics to exchange energy.

You eat an apple, you use the matter and change it into energy.

You shouldn't allow your hate to keep you from having an open mind about Tesla's works, or DiVinci's, or Moses' Ark.

ok, now this:
http://www.ehow.com/about_6657743_burning-fuels-produce-similar-pollutants_.html

A very green view of how matter is used to make energy. I must be using a term or something you do not like, but I really cant see your point. I will not be upset if you plainly explain your point about my view, and let me know what I said that is wrong.

Bap33 says

I must be using a term or something you do not like, but I really cant see your point.

As for the matter vs. energy thing, matter can store potential energy in its chemical bonds.

Plants take the incident energy of photons hitting specific molecules in their leaves and transform water and carbon molecules into sugars, which have a higher embedded chemical energy than the constituent particles.

When we intentionally rapidly oxidize ("burn") these sugars, this embedded chemical energy is released as radiation, which we perceive as heat and light at our human scale of understanding.

But matter is conserved in this process, so matter is not actually turning into energy -- the atoms just come through it in a different, lower energy, configuration compared to how they were arranged before being burned.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/ITpDrdtGAmo

As for the old testament, I think beyond a certain point it's no more historical than the Mormon "bible" is. Where that point is is of course open for debate, LOL.

Bellingham Bill says

When we intentionally rapidly oxidize ("burn") these sugars, this embedded chemical energy is released as radiation

and I said, "or, you can say you release the energy trapped inside the matter and seperate the matter into diferent compounds"

I think I grasp this pretty well .... but, this example is only talking about burning a bio source. We can burn rocks, that have no sugars, and release energy too. So, I just kept it simple. My bad.

Bap33 says

We can burn rocks, that have no sugars, and release energy too.

actually we're just rearranging the carbon-compound chemical bonds in fossil fuels, too. The organic matter that became fossil fuels was the product of photosynthesis, too, for that matter.

"organic' techincally means carbon-based, btw.

2H₂ + O₂ → 2H₂O exothermic reaction has no carbon in it, LOL. Thermite, and lime + aluminum are also non-organic power sources.

As are electrical batteries like lead acid (lead + hydrogen sulfate), NiCd and lithium polymer . . .

now we are on the same page .... matter = energy, and energy = matter.

matter is a compound of atoms that move around when they gain energy and when they lose energy.

My dry cell Optima battery is really nice.

Juan's core polemic is pointedly ignorant horseshit.

Look, he works for large entity which makes money. Whether it's NPR or it's Fox News, they own the microphone. You do or say something that offends your employer's sensibilities, you are history.

You want absolute "free speech" without worrying about getting fired, then buy your own microphone.

Pretending otherwise is like he's just discovered something everyone else has known since the beginnings of mass media. You think a reporter employed by William Randolph Hearst wrote any stories about the wonders of hemp?

Vicente says

You think a reporter employed by William Randolph Hearst wrote any stories about the wonders of hemp?

This question reminds me of a famous story about Hearst, which even Orson Welles acknowledged by presenting it in the movie Citizen Kaine. Hearst fell in love with a talented Vaudeville-type comedic showgirl named Marion Davies, and he pressured her to sing serious opera which seemed to him more dignified. A Hearst theater critic, who was also a drunkard, wrote a scathing review but passed out at his desk, missing his deadline. Hearst completed the negative review and ran it, then fired the writer for being drunk on the job and missing the deadline. Hearst was also famous for dinner parties at San Simeon where he invited people who disagreed totally about everything.

Vicente says

You want absolute "free speech" without worrying about getting fired, then buy your own microphone.

100% correct.