patrick.net

Sigh.

No one is saying it shouldn't exist, they're saying it could be better run and managed.

The level of argument employed here is that your little write-up might as well also be saying "anti-pollution activists also breath air!", or "clean water advocates also use tap water!" like it's some sort of great revelation.

I think the people that you may be describing are the idealists - they have either not traveled the world or lived under different "isms" - hence they have no frame of reference for how the implementation of various "isms" actually work and the side effects of various economic structures.

There's actually a book out there called "saving capitalism from the capitalists."

I have no problem with capitalism until it naturally evolves into an aristocracy/plutocracy. Politicians are bought and sold on the open market, and unless extreme weath concentration is prevented, the vast majority will become the slaves of the plutocracy.

You know I hear that someone who wants to DRILL DRILL DRILL doesn't deliberately live right next to an oil rig. What a ]flaming hypocrite!

Maybe I'm just putting up a strawman I can knock down.

I have been actively adpoting nihilism and trying to be more of a sociopath like Bernie Madoff. This is how you get ahead rather than waste precious thoughts on 'imaginary ideals' which are fictions and everyone believes something completely different so its all BS obviously. Lions don't have a belief system they just kill and eat what they want - outside thier little pride. Be a lion!

Anyway its 'trendy' and 'hip' to bash corporations (epecially if you are broke! Its then a way to save money by being a cool hippy). Everyone needs to get laid and if you are poor and actually work at walmart then good luck but if you are poor and are a hipster vegan musician living in a house with 12 roomates I bet you get tons of chicks! (also global warming fiction is nice to throw around I suppose to gain advantage (taxes) or to fit in and be cool (like joining a church).

I have a much higher IQ than average so I can see that all human politics, thoughts, belief systems are fictions which typically give an advantage to someone (hopefully to the person infected with whatever mind virus they obsess over, but not always). Study human behaviour like you might study ant behavior, then you will understand them better.

PockyClipsNow says

have been actively adpoting nihilism and trying to be more of a sociopath like Bernie Madoff. This is how you get ahead rather than waste precious thoughts on 'imaginary ideals' which are fictions and everyone believes something completely different so its all BS obviously. Lions don't have a belief system they just kill and eat what they want - outside thier little pride. Be a lion!

Yes that's what I've been doing too. In an atheistic universe, all that matters is power (and those who have it, and those who don't.)

But Religion has tons of 'power' also. I'm not actually a sociopath so I'm not going to start a church and fleece chumps for money and make it with the hot women BUT this is really really common. Look at all the abusive cults in the world. OMG people line up to join these things and hand them all their time/money just to be a part of whatever. Like scientology (classic abusive cult). Most are really small.

Most atheists bash religion and get hung on on the 'there is no god, i believe in science' but if you really look at humans scientifically you will see religion is never going away it is the #1 tool to control other people/get friends/build relationships/get organized/win wars/get elected so you can actually get shit done - nothing is more effective. Do not throw this valuable tool away, you might want to use it one day, even though its all fiction. Low IQ humans should be treated like small children and lied to about santa claus, heaven and hell, etc.

Mostly I just try to not discuss religion EVER since it gets you no where as an atheist and only makes enemies (bad idea). If i wanted to talk about it the best use of it is to start a church I guess or attack enemies.

The problem I have with what capitalism has devolved into.

The capitalist are the first to bitch and moan, when mom and pops and small biz protection measures are put in place. To stop the giant conglomerates from crushing them into oblivion. They have no problem when these companies garner the local market, then once all competition is gone and they are the only company left, a Monopoly if you will. They are free to raise prices and practice all kinds of deceitful practices. The free enterprise crowd says "Good for them".

But they are the first to bitch when China sends over a fleet of ships loaded with dirt cheap solar panels, that are cheap enough to get 2500 kw with every Big Gulp purchase at 7-11, why they take to streets yelling "Poppy Cock!! That ain't right!!!"

EconPete says

Many hypocritical, anti-corporation, and anti-capitalism thinkers say businesses are greedy or are the root of all evil in society. Wow, how blatantly blind and ignorant they must be. If corporations and business are the problem, then eliminating them must provide for a better lifestyle than keeping corporations around.

Thanks for this post, I do appreciate a nice black-or-white logical fallacy from time-to-time.

PockyClipsNow says

I have a much higher IQ than average so I can see that all human politics, thoughts, belief systems are fictions which typically give an advantage to someone (hopefully to the person infected with whatever mind virus they obsess over, but not always). Study human behaviour like you might study ant behavior, then you will understand them better.

Very interesting. You are a legend in your own mind.

Shorter Version:

I stubbed my toe and said "Goddamn it!", therefore, I am a theist.

You know the old saying: "Thank god I'm an atheist".

kentm says

No one is saying it shouldn't exist, they're saying it could be better run and managed.

By who ? one of the anti capitalist maybe.. sure! wink wink...

Well everything in our mind is 'software' and almost no humans have original thoughts. Maybe one day you will be able to 'reprogram' your whole brain and become someone completely different like sci-fi. (also would be useful to make mutilple copies of yourself to take over the world like agent smith in the matrix but now ive gone too far)

The producers want to make as much as possible, the consumer wants to save as much as possible. An equilibrium of sorts is created to provide a win-win. If not, someone else will step in to fill the void.

If the landlord charges too much they get no takers and lose money. If they charge too little they lose money. An balance needs to be found where the rent being sought is attractive enough to draw prospective tenants. Then and only then is a win-win created. Thats free enterprise at work (AKA The invisible hand).

I know the libs don't like this arrangement because there is no element of FORCE, or government intervention, involved.

CaptainShuddup says

he capitalist are the first to bitch and moan

The alternative anti-capitalist solution.. with higher taxes of course.

California Turns To China For New Bay Bridge

This assembly will be performed early next year by American labor. But the massive cable, key sections of the iconic tower and deck were all made in China, which is emerging as an infrastructure powerhouse in more places than San Francisco. For example, Chinese companies have contracted with New York City for a bridge, the subway system and a commuter train platform.

The decision to outsource the fabrication of key sections of the Bay Bridge was made about five years ago, when a contractor offered alternate bids on the project, says Tony Anziano, a manager at the California Department of Transportation.

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/16/140515737/california-turns-to-china-for-new-bay-bridge

Yea, if California buys a new bridge from China, the taxpayers won't be stuck with funding the unionized workers lavish pay grade and their lavish "life style of the rich and famous" retirement benefits program.

thunderlips11 says

Shorter Version:

I stubbed my toe and said "Goddamn it!", therefore, I am a theist.

Hmmm... interesting... I use the word Thursday does that mean that I actually believe in Norse Gods, or just that a comic book hero is real?

Gary, what scares me is a monolopy of the countries ENTIRE health care system.

Don't be talking about no capitalism, corporations & TBTF. I be loving me some capitalism, corporations & TBTF because it's worked out so well.

Honest Abe says

I know the libs don't like this arrangement because there is no element of FORCE, or government intervention, involved.

I find it amazing how in your world view it's the liberals have become the rigid authoritarians. While at the same being the 'soft hearted crybabies'. Do you ever stop to think about your positions on these ideas?

The contradictions are endemic though, you're also in support of 'free market individualism' and 'people power' while at the same time supporting every action that makes corporations stronger and reduces individuals power in society.

I say your world view sucks, not just because I disagree with your ideas, but because your positions are a mess and you yourself disagree with your own ideas and have no notion how much so.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is kind of the basic theme of this thread for me.

kentm says

The contradictions are endemic though, you're also in support of 'free market individualism' and 'people power' while at the same time supporting every action that makes corporations stronger and reduces individuals power in society.

TBTF = socialism...for the rich...