Watchhttp://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/31/two-thirds-of-jobs-go-to-immigrants/
Two-thirds of those who have found employment under President Obama are immigrants, both legal and illegal, according to an analysis that suggests immigration has soaked up a large portion of what little job growth there has been over the past three years.
Two-thirds of those who have found employment under President Obama are immigrants, both legal and illegal, according to an analysis that suggests immigration has soaked up a large portion of what little job growth there has been over the past three years.
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Damn,I thought that two-thirds of jobs had been outsourced to China by Conservatives. I can't believe the right wingers did not take all those six figure jobs in the U.S.
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Politicofact will be along shortly, resistance if futile, please report to the nearest reconditioning facility, at our earliest convenience.
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zzyzzx says
Isn't the washington times the one owned by sun myun moon/unification church that is such a rag you can only get it as a giveaway in the subway stations? I believe this is the one that is honest abe's only source of news also. If I remember correctly at one point the editors were found to be moonlighting by writing pieces for white racist websites. Nice.
I think I'll wait for reporting in a slightly more reputable source, say the newspapers that report about alien abductions, to form my opinion on this subject.
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46 male
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A good opportunity to invite an expert to this discussion!
http://patrick.net/invite_expert.php?p=1218326
Anyone know of a suitable expert?
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Los Angeles, CA
Melmakian says
Nope, we'll get 4 more years of BS and poverty--no matter which one gets into office. It's a matter of *how much* BS and poverty you want that determines who you wish to elect.
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"Researchers say legals and illegals are more mobile than natives in America"
LOL. Natives are pretty much locked down in their reservations. I wonder how managed to get one third of the jobs, they must be super-talented.
Seriously, these figures are meaningless. What kind of jobs, there are lobs and jobs. Most of the jobs created probably may be considered by only illegals, no American would agree to do such work.
It would be interesting to see statistics for the professional jobs. But this is misleading as well, because for many of these jobs Americans have to compete with the whole rest of the world. There is nothing new about it, it's been like this as long as I can remember or at least for the last 35 years. Probably, much longer. If Americans managed to get even a third of such jobs they should be extremely happy given America is at the bottom of the developed countries (and behind many other) in education.
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Looks symbolic:
the only difference: with Romney that house would be also burning.
Oops, the title's gone somehow.
It's called "realestatics".
Also, I like your dislikes, but why only two?
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Patrick says
Could you describe one?
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zzyzzx says
and that would be that great DIVERSITY programs we all pretty much heard about...
should anyone be surprised about this....
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CaptainShuddup says
Someone who is likely really know about employment in the US, demographics, etc.
Maybe a professor of economics, or professional economist.
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Patrick says
professors are biased. remind me again how Harvard University professors of economics managed to get the housing bubble so wrong. In fact they justified higher prices in RE. Boy were they wrong.
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46 male
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I didn't even pick one and you're claiming they are all biased?
Just pick one that you like and invite him.
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Support class warfare. End the vicious creation of capitalistic opportunity, wealth, and prosperity...for the common good (TM).
Demand equal misery and food stamps for all Americans! Vote Democrat.
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46 male
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C'mon, most Americans are pretty centrist. You're fighting a battle that was invented just to manipulate you.
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I'm looking for a source but I remember reading someplace that immigration was banned to the Us during the Great Depression. For us to do that now, that would require our politicians to have common sense though.
When I tried to Google it I cam across this in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression_in_the_United_States
The Depression also resulted in an increase of emigration of people to other countries for the first time in American history. For example. some immigrants went back to their native countries, and some native US citizens went to Canada, Australia, and South Africa. Some extreme examples were cases of some Americans emigrating to the Soviet Union (some of whom died during Stalin's Great Purges).
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Patrick says
Well while that person by his very position should be capable of enlightening the rest of us. The fact is, it's not economic professors, or professional economist, that can tell us the percentage of Jobs in the last 4 years went to Immigrants, and how many went to Citizens. Or the quality of those jobs, the direction the average income went, or even those in or out of the jobs market. Why it would be impossible, why they would need something like honest accurate numbers from some impartial entity in Washington. A Labor department or something like that. The thought of that just boggles the mind.
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33 male
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Actually, this is BLS table a-7. Here are the numbers
Employment Level - Foreign Born
March 2009: 21,274,000
Oct 2012: 23,338,000
Net Gain: 2,064,000
Employment Level - Native Born
March 2009: 118,559,000
Oct 2012: 120,651,000
Net Gain: 2,092,000
So of the 4,156,000 jobs added since March 2009, 49.7% of them have gone to foreign born workers and 50.3% of them have gone to Native Born workers.
Half is not quite two-thirds, but this is mostly true.
Now lets examine why this happened. To do this, we need to understand that some jobs are seasonal, but this data is not seasonally adjusted. From 2007 to 2009, about 500k jobs were added Mar to Oct, only to see 400k fall out of the labor force by the next March. Conversely, there is not as pronounced a trend in seasonality with native born workers. It is a much larger labor pool, of course, (about 6 times the size).
So to avoid the problem of seasonaility, we should look at Oct 2009 data for both cohorts. So here we go:
Foreign Born:
Oct 2009: 21,856,000
Oct 2012: 23,338,000
Net Gain: 1,482,000
Native Born:
Oct 2009: 117,233,000
Oct 2012: 120,651,000
Net Gain: 3,418,000
So about 30% of the total 4,900,000 jobs added since 2009 have been to foreign born workers. Since this cohort is only about 16% of the total population, this can be viewed as disproportionate.
Therefore, the article's central idea is true, though the numbers are exaggerated, and it is misleading. The reason for the skew of the jobs added to foreign born workers can also be explained by looking at the population growth within each cohort:
Foreign Born: (16+)
Oct 2009: 35,552,000
Oct 2012: 38,288,000
Net Gain: 2,736,000 (+7.7%)
Native Born: (16+)
Oct 2009: 200,998,000
Oct 2012: 205,695,000
Net Gain: 4,697,000 (+2.3%)
So as we see 54% (1482/2736) of the foreign born population added since Oct 2009 is working, while 73% (3418/4697) of the native population added since Oct 2009 is working.
We can see that the apparent disproportionate jobs going to foreign born workers can be explained by the growth in population: in fact, a native born person added to the population is more likely to be employed.
That is, we have added 2.7M foreign born working age people since Oct 2012, by only half of those are working. But we have added 4.7M native working age people since Oct 2013 and nearly three quarters are working.
The guy is generally an idiot, but I heard from Herman Cain so I will give him credit: Sometimes liars use numbers....
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Melmakian says
I don't see how Romney can do that seeing as how he isn't going to win the election to start with.
Oh- and what about Reagan? Seems to me that a whole lot of people forget that Reagan not only raised taxes 11 times, but also raised taxes on the rich. He also grew the deficit from $900 billion to $2.8 trillion. The national poverty rate also increased. Lastly, if you want to perhaps find the very start of the housing bubble, look no further than Reagan's decision to cut most major regulatory powers of the SEC and other mechanisms of financial oversight which in turn made it a lot easier for loans to be packaged and sol "up river" and therefor easier to accept larger and larger risks. The rest is history.
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Legal immigrants include many American citizens. Since the study does not differentiate, what good is it? Am I supposed to hate new American citizens and want them to be jobless?
And there you have the motivation behind the study. Given such motivation, I'd insist on seeing the raw data and the analysis before accepting any of its conclusions.
Finally, although Obama's economic policies have been crap, the real threat to American jobs is not immigrants but outsourcing and the Republican Party, and Romney in particular, are the champions of outsourcing.
It's damn easy to compete with an immigrant because he's physically in the same area you are and has the same cost of living. It's impossible to compete with the slave labor in China and India where people live on pennies a day.
If you want more jobs for Americans, never vote Republican. That party serves only big corporations, and big corporations love outsourcing your job to slave laborers in third world countries. And that's the bottom line.
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Patrick says
Everyone on the Internet is an expert.
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I love how American born are now being called native-born American. Conservatives no longer get to bitch about Elizabeth Warren checking Native American on her student form. Also, they don't get to complain about anchor babies because anchor babies are native-born Americans.
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david1 says
Thank you for posting actual numbers and reasoning! It's refreshing.
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CaptainShuddup says
Conversely, you seem to claim that 2/3 of jobs went to immigrants as fact, and yet at the very same time claim it is impossible to know the facts.
That is not useful, and doesn't even make sense.
If you have some source of facts, please use it. Or invite some expert of your choosing who does have facts.
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Dan8267 says
You should also consider the government owned and controlled banking system in China. It's hard to compete with a banking system that will stretch out loans far longer than the private banking system here in the USA., and also the loan forgiveness on those loans in China too.
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Here's an article about the Washington Times editor in questions (Coombs) and white supremacy. Too lazy to search for more.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-archibald/top-washington-times-edit_b_30565.html
Happy Mel?
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And you're calling people Snide?
Do you even know what that word means?
What are they teaching in law school these days?
Oh never mind I get it, you're probably a lawyer like a certain we know who, was a Lawyer.
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Patrick says
Well there was 170,000 jobs added this month, while 170,000 were lost.
Yet we're growing, says the experts. Do I really need to debate non sequitor propaganda? Can't facts, or lack there of just stand on its own?
My point was there doesn't seem to be any experts anymore. There's just people that are willing to present any argument for the highest dollar, depending on the party or faction that employs their help.
I mean Colbert is probably the closest thing America has to a non biased expert. That does not mean he's non biased, or an expert.
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CaptainShuddup says
This is not accurate. 170k more were classified as unemployed. In total, 341k were added to the labor force. This means less "discouraged" workers, less student, less people marginally attached to the labor force, stay at home parents going back to work, young people entering than old people falling out, etc.
The population grows at about .9% per year. This is .075% per month. This means the labor force, from population growth alone, adds about 150k people each month. It added more than this which is why the LBPR ticked up. It ticked up because of the reasons above. Since we added more jobs than would be required by population growth alone, this is a good report.
We keep adding jobs at this rate and by this time next year unemployment will be under 7. Full unemployment is around 5 (there will always be a certain percent of the labor force between jobs)
Meaning we will almost be back to normal.
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But if this is the new normal, and we're almost back to normal, then nothing had to happen at all...
God you gotta love 'em.
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CaptainShuddup says
Feel the rage!
The world must be a horrible place with everyone against you.
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Growth in food stamps 75 X's greater than job creation.
Obama = FAIL
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Honest Abe says
Got any evidence of that?
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/food-stamp-growth-75x-greater-job-creation_660073.html