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Did Obama Right a Sinking Ship? Call It a "Spirited" Tie

By Mish   Follow   Tue, 16 Oct 2012, 9:15pm   3,720 views   97 comments
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Debate II: Did Obama Right a Sinking Ship? Call It a "Spirited" Tie
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/10/debate-ii-did-obama-right-sinking-ship.html
Mish

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1. Honest Abe Follow Befriend (41) 91 threads 1,806 comments

   58   3:53pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Our economy is powered by freedom, not by government.

2. dublin hillz Follow Befriend 10 threads 763 comments Dublin, CA

   59   4:14pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Honest Abe says Our economy is powered by freedom, not by government. Make sure to call Mark Bovine and let him know. He never said this phrase before. What originality!

3. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

   60   5:08pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says Based on your analysis, I gather you've never run a business or been in a position of budgetary responsibility.... Nice ad hominem attack devoid of basis in fact and substance. But then again, you're Republican so that's all you've got. Run along son, the adults are talking.

4. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

   61   5:24pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I was disappointed in Mitt Romney's failure to answer any question directly. Though both would elaborate the question and grandstand to showcase their statesmanship. How ever this was not a time to exhibit statesmanship it was an opportunity answer questions for those that needs answers. I was disappointed in Mitt Romney for the same reasons I've been disappointed in Obama for the last four years, so lets make that clear right now. My dissatisfaction in Romney is not an endorsement in Obama's performance. I think Romney was coached to out Obama Obama. Dance monologue and say a whole bunch of nothing, when it came to explaining not only what his plans were but to outline and explain exactly how he thinks his plan will work. Or to insure people that he will follow through with his promises for that matter. The most powerful thing said all night is, "We(the people) deserve better than this" That really hit home, that is why in most Polls gave it to Obama, because Obama is the King at doing the thing he does and the way he does it. He is the master of Town Hall pull my fingers. But in all the polls across the board, said they thought Romney would do a better job at raising the standard of living in regards to income and the economy. I think he is more capable of creating more small businesses.

5. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

   62   5:26pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   CaptainShuddup says I think he is more capable of creating more small businesses. Why do you think this though? What about his proposed policies leads you to this?

6. Philistine Follow Befriend 485 comments Los Angeles, CA

   63   5:36pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says What about his proposed policies leads you to this? He still won't actually propose anything beyond a sweeping declaration. We do know from his past experience why he will *not* create more small businesses. Honestly guys, Obama will run the country into the ground one way, and Romney will do it another way. It's a matter of which one is going to be more sinister about it. Romney will most likely choose not to feed the animals.

7. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

   64   5:49pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   He is at least saying he will. Small business has not been on this administration's radar, and it is disingenuous for Obama to flip and claim he was capable all along but hasn't but he knows what it takes to create small business. One big thing Romney will do, is reduce Government thus the agencies, regulation and bureaucracy that inhibits small business and innovation from small business to bring their inventions to market. Big businesses in many instances have lobbied for regulation that they them selves could afford to chalk up as "the Cost of doing business." While stifling small businesses from even being able to even dream of meeting the requirements, lawyer fees, permits, and other costs associated with regulatory compliance. Here's what Bloomberg thought back in Febuary. Mitt Romney’s newly announced plan moves gradually in the right direction. Romney’s plan gets the correct result with a high probability of being acceptable to politicians and the electorate (changes in taxes are tricky and hard to estimate outcomes). Most of all, Romney’s plan has a high probability of being politically acceptable to the right, left and center. No bombs, no explosions, no unfair fair shot comments necessary – just a good desired effect.. A 20% reduction across the board for all income tax brackets, especially small businesses filing as individuals, reduction of the corporate tax rate to 25% from 35% and removal of tax loopholes. Romney keeps the capital gains and dividend tax rate at 15% and has a zero tax rate on those investment income items for earners below $200,000 in income, encouraging saving from this class of individuals – a much needed and desired result. This class is spending and borrowing when they need to be saving and investing. Romney kills the inheritance tax and alternative minimum wage tax – great for small business owners. The comparison to Obama’s plan is important. Obama will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. All rates will rise. He wants to freeze rates on income below $200,000 of earned income and increase rates on income above $200,000 – politically unreasonable as it is class warfare and picking winners and losers again. Obama wants a special capital gains rate for manufacturing. There he goes again – having government picking winning and losing industries tied to Unions and Green Energy (Solyndra). Obama’s plan is similar to Simpson-Bowles (bipartisan) thinking. His plan is similar to Paul Ryan’s thinking. He attacks crony capitalism by removing deductions for the more well to do, corporations and lobbyists and does so in a gradual, thoughtful but significant way. This is a well thought out plan and is politically palatable for all. Obama’s plan will raise rates on top economic performers; punish savers by raising capital gains tax rates back to 25%. The biggest mess is an increase in the dividends tax rate back to about 40%.

8. curious2 Follow Befriend (5) 31 threads 2,223 comments Premium

   65   5:58pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   CaptainShuddup says [Romney] is at least saying he will. Small business has not been on this administration's radar.... Multiple-choice Romney has proven only that what he says does not correlate with what he does. Obama says he will help small business too, so it's on the radar, if that's all it takes. Republican policies are consistently worse for small businesses but both major parties have been captured by the entrenched big businesses (PhRMA, AHA, Monsanto, etc.) that can afford the most lobbyists. When Republicans talk about deregulation, they mean allowing big polluters to poison the air and water, and to sell poisonous products without fear of liability ("tort reform"). Both major parties bail out the TBTF companies that control their campaigns, at the expense of smaller and better run competitors. If you want to help small business, consider the Libertarian party; if you want to help actual people, consider the Green party. BTW, if you want to help dogs, definitely don't vote for Romney. At least Obama never tied the family dog to the roof of a car.

9. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

   66   6:47pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says But then again, you're Republican so that's all you've got. Nice try, but you need to pay better attention....

10. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

    67   6:50pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says david1 says But then again, you're Republican so that's all you've got. Nice try, but you need to pay better attention.... Better attention to what?

11. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    68   6:53pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says Call it Crazy says david1 says But then again, you're Republican so that's all you've got. Nice try, but you need to pay better attention.... Better attention to what? Exactly...

12. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

    69   7:04pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says Exactly... Grow up. When you are ready to have a serious conversation, let me know. Lay out your arguments. Make a point. Do something... Or is a second grade ad hominem attack like, "I'm better than you, na-na, na-na, boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo. " The only bullet in your chamber? Surprise me. I bet you won't.

13. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    70   8:13pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says When you are ready to have a serious conversation, let me know. Lay out your arguments. Make a point. Do something... I've tried that and done that, unfortunately my points go right over your head.... I can't help that.... sorry...

14. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    71   8:22pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says Lay out your arguments. Make a point. Do something... I have - go look in post #45 above..... david1 says Call it Crazy says Oh that's right, he hasn't put forth and new policies to correct the problems.... He has proposed raising taxes on those making more then 250k. He has proposed the Buffett rule to prevent guys like Romney paying less taxes as a % of income than someone making 50k. He did work with Congress AND sign mandatory spending cuts of 2T. He has proposed letting the Bush tax cuts expire for those making over 250k. He did propose 2.50 in spending cuts for every dollar in tax increases. But you didn't answer my question: If I could show you empirical data proving that these deficits are not caused by Obama, would you vote for him? But all you have done is "parrot" Obama campaign talking points without providing economic data or charts to support YOUR points.. I see a lot of statements of "proposing" but don't see much "doing"... actions are stronger than words unfortunately, talk is cheap.. Now show me economic data comparable to what I posted in #45 above that shows Obama has IMPROVED it during the last 4 years... (and you can't use my Smith and Wesson chart..)

15. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    72   8:24pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Who's the worlds most critical thinker?

16. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    73   8:24pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   This GUY!

17. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

    74   9:02pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says But all you have done is "parrot" Obama campaign talking points without providing economic data or charts to support YOUR points.. You mean reality? What Obama has actually signed and proposed? Yes, yes, I know reality has a well known liberal bias. You mean the actual research I did MYSELF on Romney's tax "plan" using 2009 IRS data? Did you miss that? You didn't miss it - I know because you made a snide comment on it. By the way, your characterization of my experience couldn't be further from the truth and I would be happy to prove you wrong if you were willing to put a little money on it. Let's say $1,000, and Patrick can hold it in escrow. I will prove that I have in fact done BOTH of the things you said I haven't (owned a business AND been in a position of budgetary responsibility). If you want to line up finance credentials with me I am pretty confident I've gotcha beat. And I asked you about post #45 above. You can't read obviously so I will ask again - if I prove those charts have little to nothing to do with Obama - would you vote for Obama? You didn't answer. I'll do the work if it means we get somewhere. If you are just going to stick your fingers in your ears and scream when proven wrong like yesterday on the Labor force participation rate Republican talking point lie, then I am not wasting my time. Fact is you are scared shitless that I will prove your little chart "argument" is disingenuous just like I did yesterday with the Labor force participation rate talking point lie. Man up. You want to talk big but tell me what you are willing to risk if you're wrong. I'll be happy to take your money or your vote for Obama if I am right. You can have my money or my vote if you're right.

18. gbenson Follow Befriend 16 threads 376 comments

    75   9:09pm Wed 17 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Captain, thanks for post 61 above. I agree, and it was well put. Here's a quote that I heard tonight that I think we all can agree on. It comes from an unlikely source. "Numbers don't lie, but sometimes liars use numbers." - Herman Cain. Oct 2012 appearance on the Daily Show

19. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    76   6:38am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says And I asked you about post #45 above. You can't read obviously so I will ask again - if I prove those charts have little to nothing to do with Obama - Here is where your selective reading problem comes in so I'll repost my response to you from above: Call it Crazy says Which one of Obama's polices has slowed or reversed the trajectory of the data in the charts in the last 4 years?? Oh that's right, he hasn't put forth any new policies to correct the problems.... he hasn't even approved a budget in three years... So, I'll ask YOU again, which one of Obama's policies or bills he has signed over the last four years has changed and corrected those issues in the charts I posted??? Any??? I never said he was responsible for them, I'm asking you what has he done in the last FOUR years to correct ANY of them??? Remember, he ran on Hope and Change in 2008, so what has he "changed" for the positive in any of the main economic issues in those charts??

20. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

    77   6:52am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says Here is where your selective reading problem comes in so I'll repost my response to you from above: Call it Crazy says Which one of Obama's polices has slowed or reversed the trajectory of the data in the charts in the last 4 years?? Oh that's right, he hasn't put forth any new policies to correct the problems.... he hasn't even approved a budget in three years... You are answering a question I am not asking. All I asked was if you would vote for Obama if I showed those charts were disingenuous. I will do the work if we get somewhere, otherwise it is a waste of my time. Basically I am trying to get to the true reason you are voting "against Obama" as you like to say. I'm not wasting my time overcoming objections and teaching you things if it isn't changing the outcome. If the true reason is what you laid out in those charts, then I will address them. But you have to agree that you will vote for Obama if I do. If you don't then those charts have nothing to do with why you aren't voting for Obama. It's the same reason why you didn't change your tune one note after I showed you the Labor participaction rate talking point was a Republican lie.

21. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    78   7:35am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says You are answering a question I am not asking. All I asked was if you would vote for Obama if I showed those charts were disingenuous. It's nice how you dance around a specific question because there is no data to support the question I asked you... typical liberal deflection. Once again, and for the final time, I will NOT vote FOR Obama... there isn't enough money in the world that would sway me that direction. I am also not voting FOR Romney, he doesn't offer much either. I'm voting AGAINST Obama.... Try to remember... And before you come back and ask why... just read my posts above, and the fact that you can't respond and provide data to my specific questions... that should give you a hint why....

22. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

    79   8:03am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says just read my posts above, and the fact that you can't respond and provide data to my specific questions Exactly. No amount of work I do proving your posts above are bullshit is going to change your mind because they aren't the reason you are voting against Obama. Why should I respond to your questions asking for specific data of what Obama has done if you admit it won't change your mind? I can spend all the time in the world telling, showing, and proving to you why voting for Obama is in your best interest. But if you refuse to take your fingers out of your ears and open your eyes, it doesn't get us anywhere. So I'll pass. But I promise you this, if you can prove to me that your "charts" above (or any other evidence I can verify through an independent source) are a direct indictment of Obama's failures and his ideas for the future will do nothing but worsen my future, I will vote for Romney. You can't because reality is the opposite. But if you'd like to try I promise to pay attention, verify for myself, and if true, vote for Romney.

23. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    80   8:40am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says Why should I respond to your questions asking for specific data of what Obama has done if you admit it won't change your mind? Because you can't find specific data of the positive things he has done so you go the route of the typical liberal attack.... I get it..

24. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    81   10:04am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says Why should I respond to your questions asking for specific data of what Obama has done if you admit it won't change your mind? Well try posting something that would actually be SEEN as an accomplishment, that is actually implemented NOW and effects more people than just a tiny fringe sample of the population, that isn't being contested by at least 50% of the population, that Obama him self could use as proof of his abilities in his campaign. Please don't do it just for me, but help Obama out, he's dying over here.

25. Honest Abe Follow Befriend (41) 91 threads 1,806 comments

    82   10:17am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   American voters no longer want change, they just want their money back. Vote the musilim out - he's killing the economy. Vote the American in, at least he knows how jobs are created.

26. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

    83   10:18am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   CaptainShuddup says Well try posting something that would actually be SEEN as an accomplishment, that is actually implemented NOW and effects more people than just a tiny fringe sample of the population Just one? Ok. How about this: Eliminating Lifetime Limits on Insurance Coverage Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010 Under the new law, insurance companies are prohibited from imposing lifetime dollar limits on essential benefits, like hospital stays. Affects large percentage of population? Check. Implemented now? Check.

27. Ceffer Follow Befriend 6 threads 641 comments Pleasanton, CA

    84   10:27am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says CaptainShuddup says Well try posting something that would actually be SEEN as an accomplishment, that is actually implemented NOW and effects more people than just a tiny fringe sample of the population Just one? Ok. How about this: Eliminating Lifetime Limits on Insurance Coverage Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010 Under the new law, insurance companies are prohibited from imposing lifetime dollar limits on essential benefits, like hospital stays. Affects large percentage of population? Check. Implemented now? Check. Guaranteed to make the insurance company leave the field or go out of business. They don't want to be pumping billions of dollars a year in human "vegetable patches", where the relatives refuse to pull the plug for sentimental or superstition based reasons. That is, as long as the hundreds of thousands of dollars a year aren't on the relatives' dime.

28. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    85   11:18am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says Just one? Ok. How about this: Eliminating Lifetime Limits on Insurance Coverage Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010 Under the new law, insurance companies are prohibited from imposing lifetime dollar limits on essential benefits, like hospital stays. Oh those lucky lucky lucky people that can at least afford, or have Insurance. What does this actually mean for someone that goes in for a papsmear and the Doctor says there's a 5 by 5 inch mass in her cervix that should be looked at immediately, but they don't have insurance? I'll tell you what it means, it means if you Google you MIGHT see the insurance exchange that Obama set up for Pre Existing conditions. Then you will get turned down, when you apply with a letter telling you to apply for insurance from two insurance companies, if you haven't been insured for 6 months. Now if you had insurance a week ago but don't now, then you will have to wait 5 months and 3 weeks. The other person that never had insurance, but then applies to a company like Etna or the like wont actually deny you. They will tell you treat your condition and reapply. A condition that probably will require no less that 300K a year because of the pay structure our insurance companies set up, to keep their high premiums a impetus for many employees to stay at a job they may detest. Yet this board talks about Mortgage enslavement. Ether way 6 months would be death sentence for this individual, and as for the individual that the exchange was set up for in the first place. It offers no hope at all. Etna didn't turn that person down, they told them to get treated first.

29. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    86   11:24am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ceffer says They don't want to be pumping billions of dollars a year in human "vegetable patches", where the relatives refuse to pull the plug for sentimental or superstition based reasons. Here's the problem with healthcare in America, the issue has been hijacked by two Mental patients. Both with existential selfish hang ups. Neither considers once how a healthcare system based on profits actually effects real people living in the real world.

30. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    87   11:39am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says Eliminating Lifetime Limits on Insurance Coverage Effective for health plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010 OK, let's see what that accomplished since 2010... Jacked up insurance premiums for anyone who has insurance. david1 says Affects large percentage of population? Check. Yep, Check!! Got any more "accomplishments" ??

31. david1 Follow Befriend (2) 8 threads 755 comments 33 male Fort Mill, SC

    88   11:49am Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says Jacked up insurance premiums for anyone who has insurance. david1 says Affects large percentage of population? Check. Yep, Check!! Got any more "accomplishments" ?? You absolutely suck as causality. Show me where this provision and only this provision increased premiums. I can also provide a link where insurance companies have increased their profits from '08 to '12... Lets see... premiums went from $12,680 to $15,745, a 24% increase. And Profit margins went from 6.88% to 8.24%, a 20% increase... http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Insurance-profits-soar-after-health-care-overhaul-2444743.php Nah. I doubt that is related at all...

32. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    89   12:23pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   david1 says Lets see... premiums went from $12,680 to $15,745, a 24% increase. Yes, insurance premiums are costing everyone more since 2010, how is this an "accomplishment" for Obama?? david1 says Show me where this provision and only this provision increased premiums. Don't know if this specifically did or not, but insurance companies increase premiums when their costs go up. It fits the time frame... david1 says I can also provide a link where insurance companies have increased their profits from '08 to '12... See, there's the main problem. We were talking about YOU providing specific examples where Obama's policies have helped the economics of the country.... I provided facts that show, AGAIN, that his policy DIDN'T help the people, but cost them more money. So, Instead, you come up with a completely different "spin" and go off topic and want to blame the greedy insurance companies.... off topic... But, I understand how the liberal spin and pass the blame works without providing facts.... SOP...

33. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    90   12:49pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says Don't know if this specifically did or not, but insurance companies increase premiums when their costs go up. It fits the time frame... Well I'm for one am NOT surprised that the Obama administration would FAIL to place provisions prohibiting insurance companies from raising their premiums with out a full audit and justification. Just saying... "We can't do that! It would cost to much money!" just doesn't cut it. ESPECIALLY when you consider how well ALL insurance companies are doing, and their investors are all getting dividends and interest returns. He's arguing with you about who's fault it is that the premiums even went up in the first place. Never once has any Liberal acknowledged how creating a National health care based on a profit system that everyone involved in expects profits to go up every earnings report. It just boggles the mind, that it's not even in the topic of discussion. Liberals because they are smarter than everyone else... THEY JUST ARE!

34. rooemoore Follow Befriend 41 threads 905 comments Ross, CA

    91   12:56pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   CaptainShuddup says Liberals because they are smarter than everyone else... THEY JUST ARE! Most progressives think Obama's healthcare reform is a joke. And you are right. We are smarter than you. ;)

35. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    92   1:04pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   rooemoore says And you are right. We are smarter than you. ;) Thanks for the complement, I eat people with a superiority complex for breakfast. They never even see me coming, what me being so damn stupid and all.

36. Call it Crazy Follow Befriend 228 threads 2,746 comments

    93   1:13pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   CaptainShuddup says Thanks for the complement, I eat people with a superiority complex for breakfast. hmmmm?... what do they taste like??

37. rooemoore Follow Befriend 41 threads 905 comments Ross, CA

    94   1:20pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   CaptainShuddup says rooemoore says And you are right. We are smarter than you. ;) Thanks for the complement, I eat people with a superiority complex for breakfast. They never even see me coming, what me being so damn stupid and all. We don't need to see you - we can smell when you're near.

38. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    95   1:28pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Call it Crazy says hmmmm?... what do they taste like?? Gristly with a tad of condescending smug coffee.

39. curious2 Follow Befriend (5) 31 threads 2,223 comments Premium

    96   1:28pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Ceffer says [Insurers] don't want to be pumping billions of dollars a year in human "vegetable patches", where the relatives refuse to pull the plug for sentimental or superstition based reasons. That is, as long as the hundreds of thousands of dollars a year aren't on the relatives' dime. Thank you for pointing out the implication of eliminating lifetime caps, a so-called "benefit" touted as a selling point for ObamneyCare. It's why I've been calling it The Matrix economy. We are all mandated to pay into the Terri Schiavo tontine. BTW women in comas for years have been known to become pregnant, read about "wrongful life" litigation. (That is another reason why hospitals want "tort reform," their workers are too careless to wear condoms when raping the patients. Of course, when it happens in a Catholic hospital, it's immaculate conception.) It's terribly lucrative for hospitals, and simply terrible for people and the economy. Yet Romney is the worst candidate to challenge ObamneyCare. That may explain why a plurality say Romney lost the latest debate, even though they preferred his professed policies on major issues (healthcare, economy, taxes). The problem with multiple-choice Romney is he says whatever he thinks you want to hear, then does whatever is most lucrative for his patronage network. Read about the Scooter Store, for example. If the Republicans get their Mittens on ObamneyCare, it will only get worse. I've been watching the independent candidate debates, even though the candidates can't win. I like them for trying. Green Party nominee Jill Stein MD got arrested for trying to participate in the Repubocrat debate; when the guards demanded her credentials, she said she was a candidate on the ballot in a majority of states and 85% of voters would see her name on the ballot so she ought to have a voice in the debate. She will debate Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson tonight and October 23: http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nation/gary-johnson-jill-stein-virgil-goode-rocky-anderson-set-for-internet-only-debate-1.4126257 http://action.freeandequal.org/debate-rsvp/ http://www.laramieboomerang.com/articles/2012/10/18/news/doc507f8b117235e921980319.txt To my knowledge, none of the independent candidates ever tied a dog to the roof of a car.

40. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,655 comments

    97   1:31pm Thu 18 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   curious2 says Mittens

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