Watch"For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever really be eradicated. Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst."
~ Adolf Hitler, 1920
"We have to fight the liberal vermin."
~ Michael Savage, 2012
Funny the only party even using the word hate are the Liberals.
Liberals HATE manufacturing.
self hating white liberals
liberals don't care...liberals only care about POWER
Liberals are selfish
(liberals) want to create destitute wards of the state out of the Middle class
self identified "liberals" are economically illiterate
its the liberals who want to take from society and be free from personal responsibility.
every time idiot Liberals want to appear to be something other than insane communists they start acting like this ridiculous cowboy character
Liberals are always envious of others success, money, and wealth...and want to take it away and give it to people they consider "more deserving
There's not a day that goes by, Liberals aren't bullying people they think are Conservative, Right leaning, Republican, Tea Party, White, Fat, Uneducated, ect.
Liberals feed off the lowering of standards
Well apparently Liberal(s) despise the FACTS
liberals always did bend over backwards for any kind of free handout....
Liberals, however, cannot admit being wrong.
Liberals while they want their vote, thinks they are, Idiots, Racists, Gluttons and Bafoons.
liberals DESERVE the title LIBTARD out of all the others
The perversion of society is simply a raw power grab by depraved under achievers: Liberals.
those liberals HATE to hear of a child in school praying, mentioning God in a speech, or singing about God at Christmas time
Its glaringly obvious liberals are anti-business, anti-capitalism, anti-job creation and anti-constitution
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freak80 says
the so-called "far left" has a handful of representatives in Government -- Sanders, Franken, we can find a couple of others no doubt.
The "far left" on the ground is a bunch of clowns in puppet suits, and Nader voters like Michael Moore.
The far right is running the show here. All the Republican candidates had to kiss their ring this cycle, "Etch a Sketch" dynamics aside. They were shocked that their new man on the court backstabbed them in June by not killing PPACA when he had the chance.
The far right funds and operates dozens of public policy and propaganda mills -- AEI, USCOC, Reason, Heritage Foundation, Hudson Institute, Hoover Institution, Fox, Bloomberg, Washington Times, etc.
What is the "far left"'s crime -- just trying to stop the assault on their human rights and economic opportunities from the right's machine?
Trying to stop the religious retards from pushing their parochial views into the public square under color of authority.
The situation is not symmetric. This place is about a decade away from the 1992 riots becoming a common occurrence, thanks to the right continuing their creation of a pretty dismal version of their got-mine-fuck-you ideology-driven dystopia.
The intolerance of the "far left" -- like when some people complained about Apollo 8 astronauts reading a bible verse from the Book of Genesis -- can be found occasionally, but that is not in any way the scale of damage the right is creating in this country.
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freak80 says
the beachfront pavilion that the gay people want to get married at is not a house of worship, it's just some property a religious organization owns.
the gay couple that wants to get married there is not asking the hateful religious group to provide religious services for them, they just want to use their building like they allow other couples wanting to get married.
religious nutballs are just going to have to get over their opposition to homosex people living normal lives among them.
These suits are about gay people insisting on their rights in the face of very real discrimination practiced by religious people in our society. Religious nutballs have the right to the idiot beliefs, but they don't have the right to discriminate in providing services to the wider community based on those beliefs.
This is similar to pharmacy people refusing to sell contraception to certain women due to their religious beliefs. Your right to practice your religious bullshit ends where it adversely affects others.
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Bill,
Your ignorance and intolerance toward people of faith is on display for all to see. Educate yourself about religion if you really want to understand it or have empathy for it.
See what I mean folks? There's just as much hate and proud ignorance on the far-left as there is on the far-right.
Bellingham Bill says
Religious groups are *not* obligated by the state to provide services to anyone (unless they are getting public funds, which they should not be due to church-state separation). They are communities of like-minded people.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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freak80 says
I'm sorry I don't believe you. The left was never a threat to religion and never supports laws infringing on religious freedom that I've observed. A few kooks pressing for religious oppression are outliers and will never have any power.
The left does however try to remove religion from government, however no one has a constitutional right to impose anything on government especially something as divisive as religion.
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freak80 says
when they extend services to the community -- a beachfront rental venue and counseling services in the two cases you cited -- they need to do with sans discriminatory effects emanating from their so-called religious beliefs.
As for my tolerance of religious bullshit, guilty as charged, I have none.
The more religious a place is, the more fucked up it is. Why should I be tolerant of a cancer on society?
Sample of Least religious countries:
Sweden 83%
Denmark 80.50%
Norway 78%
Hong Kong 75.50%
Japan 75%
Czech Republic 74.50%
United Kingdom 73%
Finland 70%
France 69.50%
Australia 67.50%
Netherlands 66.50%
New Zealand 66%
Uruguay 59%
Most religious countries:
Bangladesh 100%
Indonesia 99%
Democratic Republic of the Congo 98.50%
Somalia 98.50%
Egypt 98%
Nigeria 95.50%
Pakistan 96.50%
Afghanistan 97%
Yemen 96%
Saudi Arabia 94.50%
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Pacifica, CA
Cloud says
Uh, yeah, the big corporations control an increasing amount of trade, revenue, profits, and they pay less in taxes than most individuals. Sure, the NUMBERS of people in small business are large, but our power is anything but reflective of those numbers. Better enforcement of anti-monopoly statutes already on the books for a hundred years would go a long way toward breaking the grip that a small number of people have on this economy. More competition = more business for larger numbers of businesses.
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Cloud says
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP/
yes, bow down to the one you serve
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Cloud says
The Constitution is great. There's nothing wrong with it at all. It was made by very smart people and I'm entirely sure that if we called together 100 politicians today we'd never have anything close to its coherency come out.
And fuck you for insulting me as an American and patriot. This is a great country but it's conservatives like you who have been ruining it for 150+ years with all your stupidity.
Would you like the list? It is very long and damning.
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http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=any
after-tax corporate profits + military spending, as percent of wages
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Bellingham, WA
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Cloud says
yes, that so many people think a corporate looter like Romney has any good ideas for this country is indeed something.
The last time we tried a CEO president, well, we all know how that turned out.
Average job gain of 3000 jobs / month over 8 years:
2001-02-01 132.5M
2009-02-01 132.8M
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/PAYEMS.txt
and even that went away as the mortgage credit bubble that was driving everything 2002-2007 continued its collapse in 2009 & 2010.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=am0
red line is peak employment ratio, reached in 2000. Blue line is actual employment. 20 million missing jobs now.
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Cloud says
no it doesn't, it explicitly protects the pre-existing right from government interference -- freedom of conscience.
but every human right is bounded by other rights, like the right to be treated with due respect by one's fellows.
People engaged in commerce do not have the right to withhold services to certain people who they disagree with purely on bullshit religious points.
That way is to the shithole fundamentalist-run societies of the middle east.
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Cloud says
irrelevant because this goes beyond partisan bullshit directly to the fundamental rot of the system (a rot both Democrats and Republicans have cooperated in creating over the decades, even though the bulk of the damage has been done by conservatives of both parties)
Cloud says
The bottom 90% wouldn't have to pay a penny if we just taxed the top 10% -- and especially top 1% -- more. That $16T [~$11T actually since you shoudln't count the FICA surplus etc. held in treasuries] should have been taxed (or tariffed) -- not borrowed -- in the first place.
Roughly twice as much should be taxed from this group of winners as we are currently.. This would reduce the after-tax income of the top 10%er from $290,000 to $210,000, and after-tax corporate income from today's $1.6 trillion+ to $1.3T. Oh how would corporate america ever survive clearing $1.3T.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP/
Let's get back to "ever expanding government" because this is the core of your faulty ideology.
Without redistribution of cash from the top 10% back to the 90%, this economy will seize up.
The top 5%'s income flows are not derived from the aether or between themselves in trade, they come from rents and profits extracted from those below them on the economic pyramid.
The top 1% -- 1 out of 100 people -- cleared 1/6th of the income.
The next 4% -- 1 out of 25 -- cleared nearly another 1/6th.
That's almost a third of the national income flowing to one out of 20 people.
That's our problem. Government taxing that money out of the hands of the rich and spending it back into the payroll economy is one measure to keep our economy functional, another -- my preferred measure actually -- would be to eliminate the predatory rents the top 5% are extracting at the taps.
Tax resource rents. Tax housing rents. Tax rents in health care. Tax our trade deficits. Tax all the rents, and we wouldn't have to tax productive people as much as we do now.
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Cloud says
whenever you receive a paycheck from work, you are giving money to a billionaire.
whenever you pay your medical insurance, car insurance, home insurance premiums, you are giving money to a billionaire.
whenever you buy gas at the pump or pay your monthly utility bill, you are giving money to a billionaire.
Cloud says
"Mommy" governments of N Europe -- Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, plus Canada and Australia have standards of living far, far above that of the United States.
You have a fraudulent, reality-disconnected ideology. Get a new one.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mef45ejmi/01-norway/
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Cloud says
The Establishment Clause of the 1st amendment has to deal with the state getting involved in religions, like the Anglican Church and the state churches that were founded in the colonies.
It doesn't give religious nutjobs free license to discriminate against their fellow man.
We had this battle 50+ years ago already and your side lost. Get with the program.
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/09/09/putin-s-god-squad-the-orthodox-church-and-russian-politics.html
Putin’s God Squad
After years of repression under Communist rule, the Orthodox Church is back at the heart of Russian politics.
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Cloud says
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constitution_is_not_a_suicide_pact
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Bellingham Bill says
"Costco Founder Says Obama Better for Business Than Romney"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-06/costco-founder-says-obama-better-for-business-than-romney.html
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Bellingham, WA
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My list of bad billionaires above mostly avoided areas were free market competition is mostly alive and well, and big-box retail is certainly one of those areas, even though Sinegal is a billionaire too.
Costco pays above-market wages and benefits and has a fiercely loyal workforce for it. They are a credit to American-style capitalism.
Walmart, on the other hand, not so much.
This country has a WW2-scale problem to solve in front of it, and we're just futzing around the edges of it. The Republicans are fighting a rear-guard action to delay the inevitable -- which is higher taxes, especially on those making the most money now.
Our current tax rate is very very low compared to the rest of the world, well under 30% of GDP. We need to raise this to well over 30% of GDP, and also find ways to cut future increases in medical health care expenses.
since we're just getting raped by that sector of the economy.
We also need to cut our $800B/yr military down to size. $400B/yr would still be too much relative to our actual security needs.
Right now we're investing in our military as if we needed to take on the entire world single-handed. This is . . . odd.
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Monterey, CA
You shouldn't care. But you should care that they probably then get taxed at a lower rate than you face.
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Monterey, CA
Cloud says
The world according to Cloud: Duh!
Taxing the rich at a fair and necessary rate isn't asking for handouts and isn't socialism. You seem not to understand that.
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Corning, NY
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Bellingham Bill says
Care to elaborate?
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Monterey, CA
Cloud says
Then you think wrong. Your country doesn't even have a health care system to cover the most vulnerable in society.
And a fair rate would be one where the likes of Romney have to pay a bit more than 13.9%, or the less than 1% he'd be faced with if Ryan's plans are enacted. I take it you'd be happy that a 'job creator' like Romney would be paying the 'fair' rate of 1%, would you?
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I find it Ironic that Iwog, took every quote out of context to start a thread about Fascism.
The Commies are getting nervous so they are ramping up their negative reinforcement. Aye Comrade Iwog?
So where do the patnet Libs fit in Obama's fascist regime?
I know you guys aren't clamoring to stand in HIS welfare lines.
My guess Iwog won a bid on a tent city for the millions that wont afford his lofty rents.
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Monterey, CA
Cloud says
What question would that be? If a country is massively in debt, then those most able to contribute need to contribute not pay less than they've pretty much ever paid in (not so) recent history. Exactly what that figure is has nothing to do with me, but the richest in society should be paying more in taxes on their higher levels of income than the middle class. Is that supposed to be a strange concept in America?
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Bellingham Bill says
People engaged in commerce don't have the right to avoid taxes either. Except in the case of Joel Osteen and Creflo Dollar, of course. Religion is not commerce. If it were, it would be taxed.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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CaptainShuddup says
This is a lie. Not only are all the quotes in context, (they have their own context since all are accusations) but I also linked every single thread.
CaptainShuddup says
I'm not a commie, I'm a capitalist. What sounds like desperation is this post you're making.
CaptainShuddup says
Obama isn't a fascist and doesn't have any fascist traits. Republicans on the other hand are ultra-nationalistic, hyper-militarist, intolerant of any views not part of the party line to the extreme that they run TV ads against their own people, and constantly using liberals as a scapegoat.
I invite you to make your own list using people from Patnet you think are liberal, but you'll never do it. The two sides are not the same.
You fail on so many levels trout yet you just keep coming back with more madness. Why?
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Corning, NY
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iwog says
True. But some members of the Democrat base *do* have authoritarian beliefs:
Bellingham Bill says
Quite a few people in Kansas aren't going to vote for a party with such a "base." That's "the matter with Kansas." The Democrat party used to be the party of average working Americans. But that changed in 1968 when the radicals (like Bellingham Bill) got control of the party.
And to be fair, yes, the radical Ayn Rand worshiping sociopaths / global plutocrats have taken over the Republican party. The religious right are the "useful idiots" of the global plutocracy.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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freak80 says
That's not authoritarian other than it's a view that religion should stay out of government I don't know of a single Democrat in the world who would interfere with private religious views or activities.
freak80 says
You can't really believe this. Democrats bent over backwards to make God a part of their convention. I don't see any danger from the left on this issue.
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Corning, NY
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iwog says
It's not authoritarian to say "I won't tolerate religion?" That sounds pretty authoritarian. It goes beyond saying the state should stay out of religious affairs.
iwog says
Here's a single Democrat who wants the state to force religious groups to accept homosexual marriage:
Bellingham Bill says
Bellingham Bill says
And then there's a picture from the civil rights movement. No distinction is made between a public school (pictured) and a private religious group.
That's a clear implication that chuches should be forced by the state to accept homosexual behavior.
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iwog says
Of course they did. It's marketing. It's what politicians do. They have to "move to the center."
It had to cause a lot of anger among the Democrat party base.
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iwog says
You know Iwog, I don't like Hip Hop, never have and never will.
I dislike Hip Hop as much as Obama hates God.
But I'll never feign liking Hip Hop just to get someones favor.
That's a nice spineless gutless ideology the Democrats have become.
They'll say "Jesus" if you vote for the Commie Bastard.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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CaptainShuddup says
You don't live in the real world. In your fantasy land, Obama is a commie bastard. In the place people really live, Obama is more conservative than Reagan.
You're saturated with propaganda bullshit. You're so infected by it that you can't even think about alternatives. Instead of well thought out arguments why Obama is a commie, you respond with emotion and venom.
There's a single candidate in my opinion that has potential for being an actual patnet shill. It's not an accusation, but let me just say that I wouldn't be surprised if I was correct.
It's you my friend. Nothing you say rings true anymore. When was the last time anything you wrote had any substance in it?
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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freak80 says
Of course it's marketing and actions do speak louder than words, however what have the Democrats done to suppress religion? Obama attends a Christian church for crying out loud. The same as he's done for over 20 years. Is that marketing?
The Democrats are harmless and are no threat to religion in this country.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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freak80 says
Looks to me like the state trying to prevent discrimination. Would you have the same reaction if an Islamic restaurant refused to serve Christians?
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Reseda, CA
imagine an iphone app that warns you when purchasing from a vendor or product that lacks your political ideology.
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dhmartens says
if politics didn't overlap with economics you would have a point.
the whole point of the Establishment Clause is to keep religion out of government, and hence politics, because religion doesn't mix well with anything.
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Corning, NY
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iwog says
You're confusing a secular *business* with a *religion.*
I cannot take the Eucharist in the Roman Catholic Church because I'm not a Roman Catholic. That doesn't mean the Roman Catholic Church is "discriminating" against me. The Eucharist is a religious ritual/institution that the state has no business being involved in. The Eucharist is not a "right." Now if a Roman Catholic person owns a restaurant and refuses to serve me just because I'm not Catholic, that's another story. I personally wouldn't care, but yes it would be running afoul of laws against discrimination.
That's why I think the state should not be involved in marriage at all. It's considered a sacred institution in many religions. Why is the state involved in a country with church-state separation?
If the state wants to grant "legal household" status to any number of persons of any gender, that's fine with me. Hospital visitation rights and other civil benefits of "marriage" could be granted without state interference in religious affairs.
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freak80 says
The problem is that marriage isn't a sacred institution with respect to the state, it's very much a government institution. Thus you have a big problem when it comes to issues like equal protection.
The country would be in big trouble if all the nation's religions started being hostile towards each other.
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Bellingham Bill says
I completely agree. The constitution also keeps the government out of religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
That's why I believe the government should not be involved in religious marriages. If the government wants to grant "secular marriages" or "civil household contracts" to any number of persons of any gender, fine. Roomates, multi-generational households, groups of unrelated folks living together for purely economic reasons, etc could receive the civil benefits of marriage w/o interfering with religious practices.
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iwog says
So we should make a distinction between "civil marriages" and "religious marriages." If we did that, a lot of the conflict would go away. It would also extend "civil marraiges" to polygamists and polyamorists, two "groups" that would still be "discriminated against" even with gay marriage. Isn't limiting the definition of marriage to *only two* persons a form of discrimination?