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Romney to announce Ryan as running mate

By curious2   Follow   Fri, 10 Aug 2012, 10:14pm   4,457 views   71 comments
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CNN reporting Romney will announce Ryan tomorrow:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/11/breaking-paul-ryan-is-romneys-v-p-choice-sources-tell-cnn/?hpt=hp_t1

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1. bob2356 Follow Befriend 2 threads 2,495 comments

   32   1:34pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says How about the fact that your ideology always fails? That there are zero rich people revolts and endless blue collar revolts? That the last time we tried such idiotic policies as the Ryan plan, it was the late 1920s? Today is not 1920. The debt level for government and personal was almost zero in 1920. Policies really mattered to the future direction of the country in 1920. Letting banksters and the very wealthy run free followed by the inevitable crash seems to be a lesson never learned after 5000 years of examples to study. In today's world it won't matter who wins or what their policies are in all actuality. The debts levels in the US are past the tipping point where they can be paid back or even stopped from rising. The one ironclad rule of finance is that what can't be paid won't be paid. No country in history has ever gotten out of the current position the US is in without eventual default, devaluation, and/or revolution. Don't let anyone snow you with the dollar is the default currency of the world BS either. There have been many default world currencies in history, they have all fallen. It won't be different this time. The only question on the table is when and how. The high standard of living the last 30 years is a total illusion built on debt. So cast your vote either way. The end game isn't going to change, only the timing. Perhaps Romney is the better choice, Romney/Ryan will dramatically cut taxes without any spending cuts (quiz of the day, name one actual substantial republican spending cut in the last 30 years. Romney won't cut spending either). This will hasten the inevitable process rather than 4 more years of Obama kicking the can down the road. That's my optimistic view.

2. lostand confused Follow Befriend (9) 160 threads 1,530 comments Premium

   33   2:17pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   rootvg says lostand confused says rootvg says He CAN'T. Don't you get it? How does Obama run on his record? He CAN'T. The Democrats lost almost fifteen percent of the House in 2010...and you think all that pressure and level of discontent is just gonna go away, especially since the unemployment rate remains where it is? Any race is between the competetors running. This is like a race between a thoroughbred and a mule. Are you serious? Should ask yourself that.

3. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   34   2:34pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says The debts levels in the US are past the tipping point where they can be paid back or even stopped from rising. Debt isn't going to kill us. The solution is always to print and borrow more. Spending cuts will drive us deep into an economic depression almost instantly.

4. Bellingham Bill Follow Befriend 29 threads 1,473 comments Bellingham, WA Premium

   35   4:01pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says The debt level for government and personal was almost zero in 1920. No, actually. Debt for government was low since we had run a tight ship for the 19th century, debt-wise, but: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9pS shows we had incured $23B in new debt for WW I, which was a shock since it was $300B in today's money and people weren't used to paying taxes to pay back debts like that. The 1920s also featured the rise of consumers buying stuff on credit. Productivity was assumedly increasing so I guess this wasn't inflationary, but increasingly reliance on consumer debt is a commonality of the 1920s and 2000s. Of course, we took it to a whole new level during the Bush Boom: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9pU shows how we were borrowing 20% of our incomes to keep the game going, 2002-2007. But, yes, iwog is right. Since money is not tied to any physical commodity, we can always create more. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9pV shows systemic debt has doubled since 2000 while MZM has tripled. This should continue, in the sense of "should" that I expect it to, not that I want it to, LOL.

5. Bellingham Bill Follow Befriend 29 threads 1,473 comments Bellingham, WA Premium

   36   4:11pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Spending cuts will drive us deep into an economic depression almost instantly. This needs to be understood. Iwog's likening the present economy to an end-stage Monopoly game is perfectly apt, especially since he owns a couple of color groups on the board, LOL. Money is just bleeding out of the paycheck economy, and the only avenue restoring money BACK to the paycheck earners is government spending (deficit or no, it's the spending itself that returns money into the paycheck economy, since the rich pay all the taxes, as they love to remind us). Our $50B/month trade deficit is one major avenue of this money tap on the middle class, but much larger than that is engorged social parasites like Iwog himself sucking maybe 2X that via their ownership of rental real estate. Our medical system is good for another $100B/month of economic rents from working americans, maybe more. All those Mercedes and Porsches aren't going to pay for themselves, and, what's more, the richest of the medical profession are clearing WAY too much money from their victims to return much of that money to the paycheck economy, as so much of their net has to go into investments, not consumption, so even their love of luxury cars isn't enough to keep the game going. Cut $10B/month from the DOD budget and watch entire cities on Uncle Sam's teat dry up and blow away. Each $100B/year of government spending is ~2M jobs somewhere in this economy being supported. Cut at your very distinct risk.

6. Bellingham Bill Follow Befriend 29 threads 1,473 comments Bellingham, WA Premium

   37   4:19pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says The high standard of living the last 30 years is a total illusion built on debt. So cast your vote either way. The end game isn't going to change, only the timing. This is true too, LOL. The only way to fix our economy is to basically double taxes. Yes, Republicans, those $2T in wars you wanted so badly have to be paid for over the next ~40 years. That's only an additional $50B/year, or ~$1000 per regular taxpayer. The $800B/yr defense cost you have a hard on for, that's only $16,000/yr per taxpayer with any net income to tax. Bend over! We need to slowly raise FICA contributions to make sure the FICA surplus (the SSTF) lasts through 2040 as originally planned. Maybe a point or two over the next 10 years would be enough. Medicare, same thing, but we're probably going to have to double Medicare contributions. Yes this is onerous, but we can't get something for nothing, and making the rich pay for everything just means parasites like iwog can jack up their rents they're skimming from working Americans. Taxes have to go up across the board if we want to keep what we have. The alternative is engineered inflation, which benefits parasites like iwog much more than working Americans with little in the area of inflation hedges.

7. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 203 threads 4,403 comments Davis, CA

   38   8:51pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   I figured it out. This is a McCain play. Pick a pretty younger MILF/FILF to add some SPICE to your dull campaign. Probably they think they can nab what Coulter called "stupid single women" voters who would otherwise vote Democrat, but will puddle up over Ryan's square jaw.

8. Vaticanus Follow Befriend (1) 77 threads 1,113 comments

   39   9:05pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says I think most rational people understand that Obama has been prevented from implementing most of his policy by Republicans. At least they are good for something.

9. Vaticanus Follow Befriend (1) 77 threads 1,113 comments

   40   9:24pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   iwog says Every example of extreme wealth disparity in world history proves it. Wealth disparity is not the only problem, nor perhaps the most important problem facing ours nor any nation. Other problems include: 1. debt 2. debt 3. debt 4. debt 5. debt 6. oh and did I mention debt? 7. misallocation of funds by government 8. lack of enforcement of contracts and property rights by a bought and paid for government and judiciary 9. a broken legal system 10. a drug war which is being won by the druglords and used by the increasingly militaristic "federal agencies" to justify the growing police state 11. overcrowded prisons and underpopulated small business and manufacturing payrolls 12. inflation/rising energy costs 13. over regulation 14. government intrusion into private lives, including marriage 15. a military which is overspent, over extended and causing resentment and retaliation by countries and individuals who are affected/persecuted 16. I could go on, but the point is that reducing wealth disparity, or even establishment of wealth equality (which sounds unAmerican doesn't it?) will NOT automatically get us back on the right track. In fact, when you look at the Declaration of Independence, you don't see wealth disparity listed as a reason for breaking from England. We established this country on the ideals of freedom, and personal responsibility. Were we to re-establish those ideals we would once again be a great nation. Is it too late? If we continue to participate in partisan politics, I fear the answer is yes.

10. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    41   10:02pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   Debt is only a problem for the creditor.

11. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 203 threads 4,403 comments Davis, CA

    42   10:33pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Vaticanus says 14. government intrusion into private lives, including marriage A puzzling inclusion in your list. Economic vortex due to.... what? Have you been denied your appeal to marry? Is the government agent assigned to monitor your bedroom stealing food from your fridge?

12. Vaticanus Follow Befriend (1) 77 threads 1,113 comments

    43   10:45pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Debt is only a problem for the creditor. Lets ignore the fact that a person in debt is a slave to the borrower, and the fact that a debtor (for example a home mortgage borrower) will lose their entire investment and place of residence if they default. The vast majority of US debt is directly and indirectly owed to Americans! If we print money to pay these (ourselves) lenders back it creates a feedback loop of increasing costs and negative real returns!!!! The powers that be know this of course but they don't care because they have first access to all the new money and have bought and paid for everything they want and need before Joe the plumber ever sees a dime. http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2011/01/who-owns-us-national-debt.html http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_Biggest_Holders_of_US_Government_Debt?slide=5 Do you think the others we borrowed from are going to continue? Is that not part of the reason oil prices are going up, the Arabs are tired of getting paid with devalued paper? And this debt will no doubt be paid back by the least wealthy among us. Americans standard of living must fall. The world we have been living in for the past 30 years is a lie based on expanding credit and debt that cannot be repaid. When the rest of the world realizes this, that we are broke and have been for quite some time, it won't take long before Americans start wishing they weren't Americans. But if personal responsibility and freedom were once again adopted as our ideals, I think we could escape the dystopia to come. I just won't hold my breath. The average American has no idea what is coming, and I bet before it is all over there will be another trumped up war that they sell us on to keep us all in fear while they bring us all into equality/poverty.

13. Vaticanus Follow Befriend (1) 77 threads 1,113 comments

    44   11:15pm Sat 11 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Vicente says Have you been denied your appeal to marry? No, but the point is nobody ought to seek government permission to marry nor should there be any benefit nor penalty for the married or unmarried granted by the government. So this is another case of government run wild. The government should not be in the business licensing, or regulating marriage. This is only puzzling to you because of your government schooling and collectivist indoctrination from birth to present. I am writing to give you and others a reasonable chance at overcoming this unfortunate disadvantage/brainwashing. Your welcome. Vicente says Is the government agent assigned to monitor your bedroom stealing food from your fridge? There is a gubmint agent monitoring my bedroom? Since you know about this you must be working with them? Aside from the fact that it kinda kinky, your just another big brother commie? I knew it! Good thing I do most of my best thinking the bathroom then, and it is totally tinfoil lined of course to keep the mind rays from penetrating, that is what you collectivists think of us who believe in limited government? Sorry to disappoint you but I haven't drunk the koolaid. I fear your mind is already owned by the state, and hypnotized by the media. Can you say anything that is contributory rather than coming off as a wiseass? I surely haven't seen it and that is why I typically ignore you. Thanks for the reminder.

14. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    45   2:40am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Vaticanus says Lets ignore the fact that a person in debt is a slave to the borrower, and the fact that a debtor (for example a home mortgage borrower) will lose their entire investment and place of residence if they default. Lets ignore it because it's not true. Without debtors prisons and easy bankruptcy and anti-deficiency statutes, no one is a slave to a creditor. They can always walk away. Vaticanus says The vast majority of US debt is directly and indirectly owed to Americans! If we print money to pay these (ourselves) lenders back it creates a feedback loop of increasing costs and negative real returns! No it doesn't. It simply zeros the books, doubles the money supply, and probably causes a little inflation. FDR already did it once and all the effects were positive. Vaticanus says Do you think the others we borrowed from are going to continue? Nope, in fact that's one of the benefits. Without easy credit, government will have to tax what they spend.

15. Honest Abe Follow Befriend (41) 91 threads 1,806 comments

    46   7:23am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   The problem with debt is the interest payment burden. As long as the debt exists, the interest payments suck tax dollars down a black hole. Millions, no hundred of millions of dollars of debt payments paid out...for NOTHING.

16. John Bailo Follow Befriend 93 threads 431 comments Kent, WA John Bailo's website

    47   7:36am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   It is a great choice. Ryan appeals to key groups that were lukewarm about Romney. Tea Party people who want real reform. Ron Paul's people who want greater scrutiny on finance and the Fed. And, yes, Independents who hate "dirty politics" but love a guy who speaks smartly and just says "hey, this is how I think it should be done" and presents a wonky plan with facts, figures and mostly makes some decisions.

17. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    48   8:27am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Honest Abe says The problem with debt is the interest payment burden. As long as the debt exists, the interest payments suck tax dollars down a black hole. Interest payments have been dropping, not going higher. The most recent bond sales pay nearly 0% and the high interest stuff keeps rolling over.

18. omerde Follow Befriend 15 comments

    49   9:36am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   G'Day, Being a Vice President means you can do nothing. A V.P. has to support the President. Best to make your political enemies as your Vice President. Roosevelt made Truman his VP because it gagged him. Same with Ryan. He can't speak up and can ONLY support the President's policies with NO real input. After eight years of Romney, Ryan won't have a hope, for a shot at the Presidency. If Romney doesn't get 'in', then Ryan will be the next candidate for the Republican Party. At this moment, I'm most concerned in the Neo-Con baggage that comes with Romney. Let's go to war because Israel wants us to. Let Israel do what is best for Israel and let the U.S. stay out. It's not REALLY in our interest. I think like Ron Paul, Congress should decide what course the U.S. should follow because YOU can call / write / petition / protest your local congressman. Think Romney will listen? Regards, Omerde

19. rdm Follow Befriend 4 threads 239 comments

    50   9:58am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   omerde says If Romney doesn't get 'in', then Ryan will be the next candidate for the Republican Party. Yep, I would guess that is why he accepted. He expects Romney to lose which gives him a shot at the Presidency in 2016. Ryan is an ideologically driven guy he wants the big prize. I personally don't find him that smart but everyone is convinced he is sharp as a tack, he does seem pretty good on the stump.

20. kentm Follow Befriend (1) 117 threads 971 comments

    51   10:39am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/no-paul-ryan-is-not-courageous/2012/08/11/89a9ee56-e3ed-11e1-a25e-15067bb31849_blog.html "First, Romney’s choice: The past few weeks have made clear that the race is slipping away from him, as President Obama’s lead has widened in state and national polls and the economic outlook has brightened slightly. The right has sensed this — see talk show host Laura Ingraham, among others — and conservatives are convinced that Romney is losing because he’s not assertive or conservative enough. So I agree with the New Republic’s Noam Scheiber when he writes this: Ryan is the way Romney and his aides escape blame for their now-likely defeat — blame which would have vicious and unrelenting — and pin it in on conservatives instead. With only minor historical revisions, they will be able to tell a story about how Romney was keeping the race close through early August, at which point the party’s conservative darling joined the ticket and sent the poll numbers into steady decline."

21. kentm Follow Befriend (1) 117 threads 971 comments

    52   10:53am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Paul Ryan mocks senior citizen who wants to keep his medicare. Says "I hope he's on his blood pressure medication!" as he's dragged out of the townhall &feature=youtube_gdata_player

22. Vaticanus Follow Befriend (1) 77 threads 1,113 comments

    53   10:54am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says no one is a slave to a creditor. They can always walk away. Can you walk away from student debt? Can you walk away from Social Security Payments? Can the US default? You can't be serious. Just more BS from the duck. Lies from the leftists/banksters. Eventually those who are owed will need to be paid. If there is a default, or if they are "paid" with worthless paper there will be blood/violence/depravity. The ever growing national debt is just another form of wealth disparity. The wealthy have first access, and the rest of us get whatever trickles down. Oh, and we also get stuck with the bill/interest payment. Eventually people are going to get mad as hell and not take it anymore. iwog says FDR already did it once and all the effects were positive. Is that what you call it when the dollar loses 50% of its value overnight? A good thing? Well, lets just keep extending and pretending. Sounds like the solution to debt and monetary devaluation is more debt and devaluation. Good thing we have such a smart duck here to show us the way. iwog says Without easy credit, government will have to tax what they spend. Wait, I just had a thought, how about we only spend what we have?!!!!!! No that could never work, then what would we need politicians and banksters for? It would just create even more unemployment because the crooks would have to go out of business and try to find honest work

23. bob2356 Follow Befriend 2 threads 2,495 comments

    54   11:10am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   iwog says Vaticanus says Lets ignore the fact that a person in debt is a slave to the borrower, and the fact that a debtor (for example a home mortgage borrower) will lose their entire investment and place of residence if they default. Lets ignore it because it's not true. Without debtors prisons and easy bankruptcy and anti-deficiency statutes, no one is a slave to a creditor. They can always walk away. I thought you ran a law firm. If so you should know better. The 2005 bankruptcy act makes it difficult to walk away without also walking away from you job and any assets. You don't get to walk away from student loans, which are many peoples biggest debt at this point, no matter what. The only walk away's at this point are non recourse first mortgages that have not been refi'd. But you will owe taxes on the amount forgiven once the temporary exemption n this expires. I would say court ordered wage garnishment is pretty close to slavery.

24. bob2356 Follow Befriend 2 threads 2,495 comments

    55   11:20am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   iwog says Vaticanus says Do you think the others we borrowed from are going to continue? Nope, in fact that's one of the benefits. Without easy credit, government will have to tax what they spend. So at what point does the government stop spending more than it collects in your world? Does debt grow to infinity or are you advocating the republican cut taxes to collect more taxes trickle down grow your way out of debt economic solution that has worked so well for the last 32 years? You always say the government should borrow, borrow, borrow, spend, spend, spend but you never define an end point. How does it all end up long term in your world? I may just not be up on current economic theory ala Iwog, but I am not aware of a single government in history that borrowed without end and survived. Could you provide relevant examples of how your economic plan works in the long term?

25. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    56   11:28am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says I thought you ran a law firm. If so you should know better. The 2005 bankruptcy act makes it difficult to walk away without also walking away from you job and any assets. It's because I run a bankruptcy firm that I know this is nonsense. There are no provisions in the bankruptcy reform act that force you to give up your job. There are no provisions in the bankruptcy reform act that limit the assets you keep. (it is decided by the states) In California, you can keep a bank account with $21,000 cash, all your stuff, all your retirement money, a car, and your pet cat. bob2356 says You don't get to walk away from student loans This is mostly true although if you get a public service job you can walk away from student loans after 10 years, or if you have a permanent hardship you can walk away immediately.

26. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    57   11:35am Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says So at what point does the government stop spending more than it collects in your world? As soon as Republicans are eliminated. They are the disease. The cure is REALLY easy. bob2356 says Does debt grow to infinity or are you advocating the republican cut taxes to collect more taxes trickle down grow your way out of debt economic solution that has worked so well for the last 32 years? Wow, you don't read my stuff do you. Debt can grow to infinity just as interest rates can be cut in half to infinity. After seeing the 1 and 2 year bond rates touch 0% in 2009, I'm pretty sure that it's not only possible, but probably that debt has no limits. Besides printing is a much better alternative and sooner or later that's the end game. The only way I would recommend the Republican tax cuts is if I wanted to see the country slammed into a depression as a means to get Republicans out of office. It's odd that you'd even suggest I was an advocate for Reaganomics bullshit. bob2356 says You always say the government should borrow, borrow, borrow, spend, spend, spend but you never define an end point. How does it all end up long term in your world? The end point is simply when the government decides to tax what they spend. A system of taxation that redistributes as much money as the sum total of profits to the top 1% every year would eventually balance the budget even if we never spent a penny more. It would also maintain a very rich top 1%.

27. Vaticanus Follow Befriend (1) 77 threads 1,113 comments

    58   2:06pm Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says no one is a slave to a creditor. bob2356 says would say court ordered wage garnishment is pretty close to slavery. It is certainly so.

28. Vaticanus Follow Befriend (1) 77 threads 1,113 comments

    59   2:13pm Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says I'm pretty sure that it's not only possible, but probably that debt has no limits. Besides printing is a much better alternative and sooner or later that's the end game. By the looks of things you must love the state of the economy and Ben Bernanke, so it seems we are going to test that theory. We are also likely going to find out personally what happens when the paper it is/isn't printed on becomes more valuable than the cash itself.

29. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    60   3:13pm Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Vaticanus says By the looks of things you must love the state of the economy and Ben Bernanke, so it seems we are going to test that theory. Absolutely 100% false. I hate the state of the economy. Spending is being squashed, not increased. Republicans are creating an entrenched aristocracy who are simultaneously cutting their own taxes to zero. What should have been a $5 trillion stimulus bill was less than $1 trillion. (by comparison, Bush's wars will probably cost $3 trillion) Bernanke hasn't used a single penny of his money creation to pay off debt or stimulate the economy. All his efforts are going into making low interest rates lower. We're in a neoconservative Reagan Republican wet dream on crack. Corporations pay dick in taxes. Rich people are capped at 15% while a person working at McDonald's STARTS at 15%, and Republicans want them lower. Interest rates are nearly non-existent while people like Buffett sit on tens of billions in cash. EVERYTHING you hear regarding the economy from the right is a lie.

30. bob2356 Follow Befriend 2 threads 2,495 comments

    61   3:37pm Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says bob2356 says I thought you ran a law firm. If so you should know better. The 2005 bankruptcy act makes it difficult to walk away without also walking away from you job and any assets. It's because I run a bankruptcy firm that I know this is nonsense. There are no provisions in the bankruptcy reform act that force you to give up your job. There are no provisions in the bankruptcy reform act that limit the assets you keep. (it is decided by the states) In California, you can keep a bank account with $21,000 cash, all your stuff, all your retirement money, a car, and your pet cat. Nice end run. I always have to admire how you can avoid answering a question. So you are denying that there is a means test in bankruptcies to see if you can walk away in chapter 7 or are forced into making payments under chapter 13? Try to remember your original statement was that "no one" is a slave to a creditor they can just walk away. If someone has a good job and is forced into payments under chapter 13 then how is it they just "walk away". Yes you are right, the amount of assets allowed are state by state, but some states are pretty strict. I had assumed you meant "no one" in the whole country, not "no one" in CA.

31. bob2356 Follow Befriend 2 threads 2,495 comments

    62   3:50pm Sun 12 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says bob2356 says So at what point does the government stop spending more than it collects in your world? As soon as Republicans are eliminated. They are the disease. The cure is REALLY easy So you are saying a Democrat as president and filibuster proof (in the senate) democrat majority in congress will lead to balanced budgets? You really, really believe that? Be careful what you wish for, you may get it. Sorry to break your bubble, but both parties are fully culpable in the current mess. Countries can't borrow ever increasing amounts of money forever either. At least no one has managed it to date. Any examples you care to provide where a country has done it?

32. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    63   7:20am Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says So you are denying that there is a means test in bankruptcies to see if you can walk away in chapter 7 or are forced into making payments under chapter 13? Chapter 13 is still a bankruptcy. So you walk away debt free after 3 years instead of instantly. You're still walking away. What's really ridiculous is the assertion that you have to quit your job. bob2356 says So you are saying a Democrat as president and filibuster proof (in the senate) democrat majority in congress will lead to balanced budgets? You really, really believe that? Be careful what you wish for, you may get it. Yes.

33. Auntiegrav Follow Befriend (5) 7 threads 228 comments Belgium, WI Premium

    64   8:05am Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says rootvg says Are you telling me that folks living in states with 160+ Electoral votes should not be heard? I'm telling you that the tea party is mostly a collection of ignorant and self-destructive idealists. Easily manipulated, controlled by the Koch brothers and Newscorp, and dangerous to this country. So no, they should not be heard. I liked your comment because it brings up a good point. The missing point is that it doesn't distinguish why the tea partiers are any different than the Greens or Communists or Democrats, actually. All display the same trait: Anthropocentric Blind Faith: they believe humans are something special because they are human.

34. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    65   8:20am Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Debt is only a problem for the creditor. But only if the creditor is weaker than the borrower. Who do you think owns our government? Borrowers? Ha!

35. Auntiegrav Follow Befriend (5) 7 threads 228 comments Belgium, WI Premium

    66   8:23am Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   omerde says Let Israel do what is best for Israel and let the U.S. stay out. It's not REALLY in our interest. That's very good. I needed a laugh today... ;-) Israel wouldn't even EXIST if it wasn't in our interest (the business of America is business). It is a monetary beachhead established to anchor Christian Capitalism (and pipeline terminals) in the Middle East. Did you think the Crusades ended?

36. kentm Follow Befriend (1) 117 threads 971 comments

    67   8:34am Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   "Christian capitalism"? Wtf

37. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 246 threads 4,658 comments

    68   9:33am Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)

38. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    69   10:25am Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   kentm says "Christian capitalism"? Capitalism is the economic system specifically endorsed by The Bible. Jesus said we should ruthlessly exploit one-another and our natural environment. (sarcasm...really)

39. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    70   2:30pm Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   freak80 says But only if the creditor is weaker than the borrower. Who do you think owns our government? Borrowers? Ha! That's a good point but the success of lenders to control the government ultimately depends on how good the lenders are in lying to the public and covering up the raping. Thus we have the Republican party.

40. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,450 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    71   2:32pm Mon 13 Aug 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Auntiegrav says The missing point is that it doesn't distinguish why the tea partiers are any different than the Greens or Communists or Democrats, actually. They are different because their ideology is ruinous to nations. Perhaps communists are ruinous too, but they have no power. Ditto for Greens. Democrats are pushing polices that are more conservative than Republican polices of the 1960s and 1970s. They are tried and true, they were in effect during the ascent of America to world Superpower status, and they will not take the economy down.

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