Another brilliant plan?
By HEY YOU Follow Wed, 1 Aug 2012, 4:59pm 2,471 views 33 comments
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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It's time for working Republicans to wake the hell up.
Romney's plan is the Ryan plan. The Ryan plan eliminates ALL taxes on rich people and forces working Americans to pick up the slack. Romney will literally pay $0 while a WalMart greeter pays a higher share of the federal budget.
If you intend to vote for a Republican this year, THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT. Zero taxes for billionaires and higher taxes for you.
Period.
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I believe that if one makes $200,000/year or less, taxes will increase $500.
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Whatever, if Obama gets elected we're still going to be raped by taxes anyway. Even taxes that aren't labeled as such like Obamacare.
Face it, the country is in massive debt and run by the 1%, so there's no scenario in which they'll feel like they're being taxed too much. The middle class will always shoulder the debt load for everyone. The only solution is to stop voting Democrat and Republican all together and to stop letting corporations run the country.
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47 male
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StoutFiles says
That's not a solution, that's a surrender.
This is black and white. There is no grey area.
Republicans want to cut taxes on billionaires to 0%. They don't even hide it anymore.
Democrats want to raise taxes on billionaires and the House has already passed legislation to that effect.
Party matters.
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Buffalo, NY
StoutFiles says
Do that and the elections will be decided by the party officers who will vote. If even one person votes in every state, the election will be won by a Republican or a Democrat. Refusing to vote is not the answer.
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Corning, NY
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So what's the solution? Revolution?
Hey look, is that a Predator Drone coming towards me?
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freak80 says
freak80, I really like you, but you are not that important. :-)
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iwog says
How is it a surrender? It would only take enough
people to say they won't support the party system for third party candidates to come out of the woodwork. You think we have to pick one of these two parties that are completely funded by and controlled by the 1%, but we don't. We have a choice, we just choose to back one like a favorite sports team and defend it to the death.
They are both AWFUL. Sure, one is worse than the other based on your views, but they are both awful. It's like eating cat shit or dog shit for breakfast. We can fight over which shit tastes better but it's still shit you're eating.
If enough people stopped voting for shit, people would realize the election is up for grabs and we'd get all sorts of people running that aren't affiliated with the dirty party system.
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StoutFiles says
That will never happen. Our constitution is flawed and needs to be fixed before the advent of viable 3rd party candidates.
StoutFiles says
I don't agree. I see a long list of black and white issues. Look at the Supreme Court. Look at tax policy. Look at military adventurism. How can you say both parties are identical when most votes are exact splits down party lines?
The solution is to remove toxic Republicans from the political process by having a 1933 style revolution. THEN you can effect change in the primaries.
While Democrats are desperately clinging to power, there will be fundraising and compromise and nothing will change.
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StoutFiles says
Stop freaking out the Liberals you know damn well the problem isn't the liberals in Washington, the problem is "They" wont let Liberals pass effective legislation, so they pass half assed shitty legislation that sucks so bad no body even wants to own it, just so they can blame "THEM".
The Patnet Liberal collective sees nothing wrong what so ever with this failed logic, and work tirelessly to make apologies for the ilk of Dodd, Frank, Pelosi, Obama and countless others. While laughing hysterically at Kusinich the only liberal independents can stomach.
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Corning, NY
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StoutFiles says
Amen to that.
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iwog says
That won't happen until the Democrats stop doing the bidding of far-left special interests groups. The only thing that keeps Republicans in power is "god, guns, n' gays."
Case in point: Obama ended "don't ask don't tell", but what has he done to reign in the financial crime syndicates or the top 0.1%? "Party of the people" indeed.
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iwog says
And I guess you feel that will solve the $16T debt problem. The additional taxes the billionaires pay will balance the budget, right???
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46 male
Menlo Park, CA
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Actually, Obama doesn't lie at all.
He's been a pretty good president. The worst you can say about him is that he is much too conservative. He did not really rein in the banks, killed the single-payer option, did nothing much to stop lobbyists from writing our laws, and signed the Republican NDAA bill.
Given the choice between Obama and Romney, you should vote for Obama unless you want to be wiping the asses of the 0.1% for the rest of your lives.
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iwog says
Yes, just look how toxic the republicans have been to our national debt. We need to eliminate all those spend thrift republicans who are spending all our money!!!
Oh wait......, the democrats took control in 2006 and have had almost 6 years to "correct" the problems... the democrats still control the senate today...
How's that working out for you???
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Call it Crazy says
The national debt is a non-issue and will not impact the future of our country. Tax policy and wealth disparity is everything.
That being said, if you're worried about the national debt, electing Romney and a Republican Senate is going to blow up the national debt like no other time in history. Read the linked article if you want details.
Other than the $1 trillion in stimulus, Obama and the Democrats are responsible for no significant new spending. None. Zip.
If you think I'm wrong, please detail the specifics.
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Call it Crazy says
There is no $16 trillion debt problem. You're seeking a solution for something that doesn't need one. United States debt has never been more in demand. Ever.
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Call it Crazy says
For one, Democrats didn't "take control" in 2006. They had majorities in Congress 2007-2010 but only the presidency 2009-2010 and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for a matter of weeks in 2009.
Counting 2011 and 2012 as the Dems being in "control" is utterly bizarre given the House is being run by your guys now.
But your larger failure here is not understanding the role of PRIVATE debt take-on since 1980.
Here's a better graph for you:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9bT
This shows that the two major credit influx events happened in the mid-1980s and mid-2000s, roughly correlated with the LBO & S&L BS of the Reagan era and of course the more recent mortgage fraud credit bubble under Bush.
What has happened since 2007 has simply been the hangover from consumers defaulting on their $14T debt burden, and government borrowing to keep the game going a bit longer:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9bU
I do think this is a scam and is going to end very badly, and am ordering my life to not be here when everything blows up.
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Well said, Patrick. It really does come down to that, and I just have to think so much of the Republican support we see is just paid propaganda salting the debate with their talking points.
Nobody could really believe all this crap they post, right???
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freak80 says
The financial great crimes have already been committed and the money is safely stashed.
Even talking about this is just "Class Warfare!", like showing how Romney made his millions is "criticizing his success" according to his PR.
99.9% of our public discourse is just bullshit.
And bullshit ain't going to pay the bills some day.
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freak80 says
The day after the revolution there will still be 30% of the country who believes in talking snakes
http://www.gallup.com/poll/27682/onethird-americans-believe-bible-literally-true.aspx
and ~50% of the country (or more, given environmental effects on intellectual development) with a below-average IQ.
Things are going to have to get a lot worse -- like 1930-32 -- before they get any better.
And I can't really see what's going to happen should Romney win and have at least a semi-compliant Congress. If anything this will push off our eventual collapse by a decade maybe, since the PTB can just add another layer of kick-the-can BS to what passes for our economy today.
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Delurking says
They took control of congress in 2006 and had two years to plan and come up with solutions. They took full control when Obama got elected in 2008 and had two more years of a majority where they had free reign to "implement" their plans without blockage by the Reps.......
So, where is the Dems solutions???? Obamacare???? Where is the budget that the Senate hasn't passed in the last three years??? Hmmmmm...
BTW, I think the Repub's suck too... but at least they throw some half assed ideas/solutions out there.... the Dems just keep spending our money without any plan!!
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Maybe we should just have "equal taxation"? Replace all taxes with a flat sales tax. Have exemptions for non-prepared food and life dependent medical. If you are poor, and buy a bag of beans, you have paid zero. If you are rich, and decided you needed a new car, you just volunteered to hand over a big chunk of change.
Why do we tolerate such a gigantic government? Most of it can be slashed. The private sector picks up that which they are currently kept from doing.... Income taxes is slavery. Property taes are theft. Capital gains and estate taxes are triple theft. In a free society, one should "choose" to pay taxes. One should be able to be poor and not have to be burdened by taxes, fees, etc.....
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Call it Crazy says
Wow, is that chart misleading. Who knew Spending Bills originated in the Senate?
Newsflash: 1994-2006, Republicans totally controlled the House, where spending bills are written. For 6 of those years, they also had the Presidency.
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Call it Crazy says
LOL. There is no solution to fix the fallout consequences of the over leveraging of 1999-2007:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=9bV
shows how systemic borrowing exceeded 1/6th of GDP for most of the Bush boom.
Un•sus•tain•a•ble.
They took full control when Obama got elected in 2008 and had two more years of a majority where they had free reign to "implement" their plans without blockage by the Reps.......
No, this is where you really veer off into counter-factual land. Even if Democrats had the Golden Plan to Prosperity (which Doesn't Exist), they only could defeat Republican filibusters (of which there have been HUNDREDS) for several weeks in late 2009.
After 2010 there's generally no point in filing for cloture since the Dems don't even have 60 votes.
And the ~60 votes they had in 2009-2010 were counting Lieberman and other conservative Dems in conservative states, like Ben Nelson.
BTW, I think the Repub's suck too... but at least they throw some half assed ideas/solutions out there.... the Dems just keep spending our money without any plan!!
LOL. Without this deficit spending -- if government scaled back spending to match falling revenue after the middle class lost the use of its HELOCs in 2007 -- conditions today would be WORSE than 1933.
Much worse. We fucked ourselves 2000-2007 and there is no real unfucking to be had.
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Call it Crazy says
STOP THE FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!
You can't really be this stupid. Democrats NEVER had free reign to implement their plans without blockage by the Republicans other than a very tiny window between the seating of Al Franken on July 7th, 2009 and the swearing in of Brown in January 2010. During that time, Kennedy was so sick that he missed most of the Senate votes. He even missed the confirmation of Justice Sotomayor.
Summer recess was August 7th to September 8th 2009.
Kennedy dies on Aug 26, 2009.
Kennedy’s replacement was sworn in on September 25, 2009.
The Senate adjourned for the year on October 9th.
Scott Brown was elected in November of 2009.
The time in which the Democrats could pass legislation, assuming every single Democrat in the Senate was in total agreement, was....................
24 days.
It was absolutely incredible that they accomplished health care reform in that time. It's stunningly stupid for anyone to claim that they could have done more.
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47 male
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I honestly can't understand why Republicans refuse to live in the real world. Even if you disagree with everything Democrats stand for, the sustained ignorance of reality and the CONSTANT LYING is doing nothing more than making the country a cesspool.
Why live here if half the population can't tell the truth?
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thunderlips11 says
No sweetheart, they are APPROVED in the senate.... and how many of the past few years has the senate been controlled by the Dems?????
I'm waiting.....
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Call it Crazy says
No need to wait. 24 days total.
Any other claim is a bald faced lie.
http://factleft.com/2012/01/31/the-myth-of-democratic-super-majority/
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Call it Crazy says
So let me get this straight. Group A is in charge of designing the Budget, which is then also voted on by Group A before it goes to the next Group. Group B can only vote the Budget that Group A gives them up or down.
The chart seems to imply that Group B is just as responsible for the budget as Group A.
Makes sense if you eat certain members of the fungus family.
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First, many people who would not vote for Obama agreed with Obama on one thing: banks should not be too big to fail.
The problem was when Obama wanted to do something about the banks, Timmie Geithner stared him down and refused to do anything about the banks.
Everything else Obama has done and supported was terrible for the economy and absurd.
1. cash for clunkers.
2. give equity of GM to the unions who bankrupted it. take money from the rightful bondholders who should be the ones first in line (by law) when any biz is bankrupt.
3. solyndra, absurd green energy schemes based on junk science nonsense.
4. try to force American car companies to make cars that are small which are not profitable for them.
5. say over and over the problem is not high enough taxes, but the true problem is the welfare state spending by govt.
6. say you are not successful, "you didn't do that", that success was caused by govt, (obviously false) and that you must "spread the wealth".
7. support illegal aliens working here. The laws of supply and demand apply to LABOR you liberal dimwits. The more illegals working here the more wages are depressed.
8. formed a panel Simpson/Bowles to look at new ways to get control of the budget. Promptly ignore their suggestions forever.
9. Obama care which is new taxation on medicines, medical devices, and on everyone who has investments and high income. Brilliant.
10. ETC.
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clambo says
It really is not about whether something should be too big to fail. It is about the societal attitude towards failures. Currently, "failures" are categorically bad. This is the root cause.
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clambo says
What's absurd is you follow this absurd statement with an absurd list of irrelevancies, most of which are impossible to solve with Republican slash and burn policies in congress.
Who puts a quote from a speech in a list of things that are terrible for the economy?!? LOL