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Global warming

By iwog   Follow   Sun, 8 Jul 2012, 1:30pm   20,410 views   402 comments
In Lafayette CA 94549   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike (2)  

There has never been a summer like this one on the North Pole since detailed records have been kept. Not only is the United States experiencing a record heat wave, but the arctic ice cap is melting far ahead of schedule.

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/arctic.sea.ice.interactive.html

Those of you who believe that global warming is a fraud created by Al Gore to win the Nobel Prize should probably rethink your positions.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/arctic-sea-ice-melting-at-a-record-rate-20120701-21b57.html

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1. AverageBear Follow Befriend (1) 13 threads 345 comments Boston, MA

   43   10:17am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)   Iwog, This is an easy one...It's called the sun. It dictates our weather, short-, medium-, and long-term climate changes. - After Al Gore's speeches on global warming/rising ocean levels, why did he recently buy a multi-million dollar mansion ON THE OCEAN? WTF?!! - Do you not believe the emails uncovered in the East Anglia Climate center in England, where they... - Tried to HIDE research results that were NOT to there liking. - Discussed w/ dismay how they have to be held accountable to England's version of the 'Freedom of Information Act'. - Repeatedly tried to legally block the requests for information, that you know, were paid for by tax dollars. Sooo, they didn't want to divulge their findings to the tax payers, those efforts paid for, by the taxpayers. - "HIDE THE DECLINE" ANYONE? - Can't 'recover' the original data set, so as to compare/contrast there findings? How convenient. - I can't believe that Eco-Zealots are still trying to fight this battle. The war is over, and you lost...

2. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   44   10:20am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)   clambo says Also, in one of my science endeavors we used chemicals in minute concentrations and believe me, 380ppm of something is very small concentration. lol. Great argument. One which MarkInSF already demolished in a humorous way. My sunglasses have a very small concetration of darkened plastic compared to the column of atmosphere between myself and the sun. I can tell you're a scientist, yes. Where at? The Creation Museum? clambo says Now markin is typical. He attacks me and my lack of "credentials" rather than argue my points. He DID argue your silly "point" about low CO2 concentrations. clambo says The other problem is that people outside of academics do not understand that the grant money is the bait and the fake science often follows. One scientist guy I edit manuscripts for is going to get $ to study the idea of growing algae for fuel. He said to me "I know it cannot work, but don't tell anyone!" He wants the dough. Oh really? Why don't you give us his name and the institution he works at. I like, totally know this scientist guy that says the opposite. clambo says Al Gore makes a profit personally if you believe him. He got a D- in the one and only science class he took. Yes Al Gore is full of shit. But that's irrelevant to the debate. Both sides have their propagandists. clambo says The man who planted the idea about warming in Gore's head publicly recently changed his opinion on the subject. Who is this person? I want a name, not something like "this scientist dude I know." clambo says Climate science is a misnomer, because it is too difficult to construct any experiment concerning weather. Also, the methods of measurement are sometimes direct, sometimes indirect. People who equate tree rings to measurement using a mercury thermometer are not scientists. Ok, you ARE a scientist at the Creation Museum.

3. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   45   10:25am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)   Bear, YES the issue has been politicized. And yes there ARE shenanigans. But that doesn't mean that the entire study of climatology is some kind of conspiracy.

4. CaptainShuddup Follow Befriend (1) 250 threads 4,758 comments

   46   10:27am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)   clambo says One reason I understand that the CO2 alarmists are full of shit is that they use "computer models" to try to predict a future however this is not direct measurement. Which these days could mean nothing more than a computer animation. These days you can make an animation to present your case, and they call it a model. Much like economist that take a graph and nothing else as "Data".

5. zzyzzx Follow Befriend (9) 416 threads 4,138 comments Baltimore, MD

   47   10:52am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   iwog says here has never been a summer like this one on the North Pole since detailed records have been kept. That's because detailed records don't go back far enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period The 2009 Mann et al. study found warmth exceeding 1961–1990 levels in Southern Greenland and parts of North America during the Medieval climate anomaly (defined for this purpose as 950 to 1250) with warmth in some regions exceeding temperatures of the 1990–2010 period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age The Little Ice Age (LIA) was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period (Medieval Climate Optimum).[1] While it was not a true ice age, the term was introduced into the scientific literature by François E. Matthes in 1939.[2] It may be conventionally defined as a period extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries,[3][4][5] or about 1350 to about 1850[6] though climatologists and historians working with local records no longer expect to agree on either the start or end dates of this period, which varied according to local conditions. NASA defines the term as a cold period between 1550 AD and 1850 AD and notes three particularly cold intervals: one beginning about 1650, another about 1770, and the last in 1850, each separated by intervals of slight warming

6. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   48   10:56am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   Yeah that's the thing. You've got "natural" stuff going on, but you've also got the extra CO2 in the atmosphere from all the fossil fuel combustion. Has any scientist figured out a way to determine how much of the observed warming is "natural", if any? Is that even possible to determine?

7. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

   49   10:59am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   iwog says Those of you who believe that global warming is a fraud created by Al Gore to win the Nobel Prize should probably rethink your positions. iwog says I'd be interested to hear what the global warming skeptics think of the polar ice chart. When legislation is being drafted that requires people to ignore science I think that the response to the chart -- or any evidence of climate change for that matter -- is predictable. Many people are not going to be convinced by charts,data, facts or science that climate change is a problem. Only when it directly affects them many will then choose to accept that climate change is an issue that needs to be dealt with. Of course by then it is going to be about 20ish years too late to "fix". While this may sound fatalistic I think that the conversation on what we, as a society, should do about climate change is done. Theoretically the climate change problem could be solved, but in order to "fix" the issue the entire world has to act as one -- and act soon. There seems to be very little political will to try and solve this problem. When "Joe/Jane Six-pack" does want to see what he/she can do about climate change they are given all sorts of worthless advice from Al Gore types like: buy a natural gas car, reduce your carbon foot print, etc. These things could work, but would only work if everyone does them. I think that your "average" person who believes in climate change should stop trying to convince deniers and stop trying to get the entire human society to make changes. Instead they should refocus their energy on a plan for themselves and their family of where they want to be and what they should be doing 30-40 years from now. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) there is very little information or recommendations about this type of planning.

8. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   50   11:04am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   leoj707 says Instead they should refocus their energy on a plan for themselves and their family of where they want to be and what they should be doing 30-40 years from now. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) there is very little information or recommendations about this type of planning. My plan is to stay in the Northeast. It'll be funny when people start moving back to the Northeast from the Sunbelt thanks to global warming. Hey Iwog, wanna start buying up cheap housing in upstate NY?

9. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

   51   11:05am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   Ah crap. That means Californians will start moving here and drive up RE prices to ridiculous levels. I'd better buy a house now.

10. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    52   11:16am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)   wthrfrk80 says My plan is to stay in the Northeast. wthrfrk80 says Ah crap. That means Californians will start moving here and drive up RE prices to ridiculous levels. I'd better buy a house now. Well, you just have to do it before everyone else thinks that it is a good idea to move to the NE. You probably will not have too much problem from Californians. Native Californians will probably move up into the pacific north west -- a much closer alternative. People tend to move back to where they are from -- if they can. You should worry more about everyone in Florida and the south. Also, it is yet unknown what the "good" areas to live will be. However, all indications are that update NY will probably be "OK".

11. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    53   11:33am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   leoj707 says However, all indications are that upstate NY will probably be "OK". It was a good place to be during the massive heat wave east of the Rockies the last two weeks.

12. dumbass Follow Befriend 1 comments

    54   11:48am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (3)   you really think that global warming is cause by humans?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA look at me username.

13. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    55   11:49am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)   Ruki says I love how Iwog posts 'facts' that are complete bullshit (as others who have already replied to this farcical post have proven) and then trips up by using the term 'Global Warming' . Don't you know Iwog that the correct term is 'climate change' -- that way the fraudsters can have it both ways. Well, it always was and always will be "global warming". The entire globe on average is "warming". However scientists, putting too much faith in humanity, did not anticipate how difficult it would be for some individuals to understand that this overall increase in temperature would accompany cold weather increases in some locals. There are certain, very wealthy, organizations that have a vested financial interest in the burning of fossil fuels. These organizations have been able to sow confusion taking advantage of people who are unwilling or unable to understand the basic science of "global warming". So... in order to help alleviate this confusion the scientific community thought that the term "climate change" -- which is also accurate to describe the situation -- would be less confusing for those that have difficulty understanding simple scientific concepts. However, those that see conspiracy everywhere where FOX "news" orders them to see conspiracy are probably beyond help.

14. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

    56   11:57am Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)   AverageBear says - After Al Gore's speeches on global warming/rising ocean levels, why did he recently buy a multi-million dollar mansion ON THE OCEAN? WTF?!! It's an ocean VIEW home in the hills, over a mile from the coast. Not on the ocean. http://goo.gl/maps/lwwy But don't let that stop you from repeating this lie, or other lies you run across on the internet. And by no means let it make you question the moral or intellectual integrity of the people inventing these lies, or your own moral or intellectual integrity.

15. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    57   12:00pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   Ruki says It's the SUN Iwog. It's the SUN. There is a 98% consensus rate on this among a select group of scientists about all this...those who study the sun. Shrek we have had this conversation before. I seems that over time you increased your lie by 1%! let me refresh your memory... leoj707 says shrekgrinch says Try asking solar scientists their take on this. About 97% claim that Global Warming was a result of solar activity and they OPENLY LAUGH at the notion that it was caused by humans. Ummm... I hate to tell you this buddy, but your are citing sources that are a decade or so old, or perhaps you are citing sources that cite sources. I don't know if any solar scientists would OPENLY LAUGH at your comments, or just correct you. Let me bring you up to speed: "During the initial discovery period of global climate change, the magnitude of the influence of the Sun on Earth's climate was not well understood. Since the early 1990s, however, extensive research was put into determining what role, if any, the Sun has in global warming or climate change. A recent review paper, put together by both solar and climate scientists, details these studies: Solar Influences on Climate. Their bottom line: though the Sun may play some small role, "it is nevertheless much smaller than the estimated radiative forcing due to anthropogenic changes." That is, human activities are the primary factor in global climate change. " http://solar-center.stanford.edu/sun-on-earth/glob-warm.html

16. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    58   12:04pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   CaptainShuddup says CO2 emissions are at the lowest levels right now than in over 70 years Shirley you jest. I'm thinking you must be talking about per capita in the US only. http://www.skepticalscience.com/Industrial-Revolution-global-warming.htm http://zfacts.com/p/194.html

17. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    59   12:23pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike   For you clambo. My prediction, you won't read these, because they don't support what you want to believe. http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?f=taxonomy

18. swebb Follow Befriend (3) 29 threads 490 comments Denver, CO

    60   12:24pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)   clambo says Also, in one of my science endeavors we used chemicals in minute concentrations and believe me, 380ppm of something is very small concentration. It really depends on what you are talking about. 380 ppm can be catastrophically huge, or it can be negligible. Chlorine concentration in swimming pools: 1-3 ppm http://www.havuz.org/pool_pool/pool_maintenance/water_testing/chlorine.htm Here is a list of toxic gasses, note that some are toxic in concentrations as low as 0.02 ppm (yes 0.02 ppm, for Tellurium hexafluoride) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highly_toxic_gases Whereas nitrogen won't kill you in concentrations of 800,000 ppm... So it really does depend...

19. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    61   12:31pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   MarkInSF says The low sounding concentration of CO2 is irrelevant. You could take out 90% of the N2 and O2 in the atmosphere, and the concentration of CO2 would go up about 10 fold to more like 4000 PPM. But it would not mean much change for the greenhouse effect, since N2 and O2 are transparent to infrared radiation. How much visible light does an inch of air block? Almost nothing. How much does 1000 inches of air block? Almost nothing. How much does a 1 millimeter thick piece of tinted glass block? Quite a bit.

20. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    62   12:33pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   You know how kids sometimes put their fingers intheir ears and say Lalalalalalalalalal,...I can't hear you,lalalalalalal,.... What's the visual reading and reasoning version of that called ?

21. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    63   12:40pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (5)   Dislike (1)   marcus says Shirley you jest. I'm thinking you must be talking about per capita in the US only. "I AM serious. And stop calling me Shirley."

22. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    64   12:42pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   marcus says What's the visual reading and reasoning version of that called ? The central platform of the Republican Party since 2000.

23. zzyzzx Follow Befriend (9) 416 threads 4,138 comments Baltimore, MD

    65   12:59pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says My plan is to stay in the Northeast. It'll be funny when people start moving back to the Northeast from the Sunbelt thanks to global warming. I couldn't live in the Northeast if it wasn't for global warming! Seriously!

24. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    66   1:02pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   zzyzzx says couldn't live in the Northeast if it wasn't for global warming! When it was 80 degrees in March up here, I was thinking to myself "man, if this is global warming, I'm buying a Hummer!"

25. swebb Follow Befriend (3) 29 threads 490 comments Denver, CO

    67   1:04pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   swebb says It really depends on what you are talking about. 380 ppm can be catastrophically huge, or it can be negligible. Chlorine concentration in swimming pools: 1-3 ppm http://www.havuz.org/pool_pool/pool_maintenance/water_testing/chlorine.htm Here is a list of toxic gasses, note that some are toxic in concentrations as low as 0.02 ppm (yes 0.02 ppm, for Tellurium hexafluoride) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highly_toxic_gases Whereas nitrogen won't kill you in concentrations of 800,000 ppm... So it really does depend... Have to say, a bit confused how someone could dislike this post. It's just me pointing out factual things. Aren't you supposed to dislike posts when someone is being vulgar, disruptive, or attacking someone personally...? Or maybe if you don't agree with an opinion....but facts...come on.

26. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    68   1:08pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   swebb says Have to say, a bit confused how someone could dislike this post. It's just me pointing out factual things. Aren't you supposed to dislike posts when someone is being vulgar, disruptive, or attacking someone personally...? Or maybe if you don't agree with an opinion....but facts...come on. You're not supposed to like facts that get in the way of a good ideology. Facts are like kryptonite to the ideologues.

27. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    69   1:12pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   swebb says It's just me pointing out factual things One of the retards has identified you on their enemy list.

28. leo707 Follow Befriend (12) 10 threads 3,516 comments Oakland, CA leo707's website Premium

    70   1:27pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   marcus says swebb says It's just me pointing out factual things One of the retards has identified you on their enemy list. Yep, don't take it personally your facts just got... wthrfrk80 says ...in the way of a good ideology.

29. swebb Follow Befriend (3) 29 threads 490 comments Denver, CO

    71   2:06pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   leoj707 says Yep, don't take it personally you facts just got... no, not taking it personally...but in the interest of healthy intellectual debate I figured it was worth pointing out.

30. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    72   2:16pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)   Ruki says I love how Iwog posts 'facts' that are complete bullshit Which fact was complete bullshit? Ruki says and then trips up by using the term 'Global Warming' . Don't you know Iwog that the correct term is 'climate change' I really don't care what the official term is. You might goose step to Newscorp, but I am my own master. Ruki says It's the SUN Iwog. It's the SUN. Mars, Io and Europa all had 'global warming' in the 90s when we had 'it' as well. Yeah except that's total bullshit and there aren't any scientific papers to back up that ridiculous claim. It's a fabrication by people like yourself who hate science. You see Shrek, people argue over what the average temperature is on earth and we live here. How do you think anyone is able to get a good picture of average temperatures on other planets? It's ignorant and insane to make this claim. Here's a good site that rips it apart. (but you aren't going to read it) http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-other-planets-solar-system.htm However something that CAN be measured to precise accuracy is the amount of solar radiation emitted by the sun. It's going down, not up: Therefore the only thing that could possibly be warming up Mars is invisible magical solar rays that can't be measured by science. Ruki says There is a 98% consensus rate on this among a select group of scientists about all this...those who study the sun. Total lie with no basis in fact.

31. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    73   2:17pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)   wthrfrk80 says Hey Iwog, wanna start buying up cheap housing in upstate NY? I'm thinking Alaska. There's gold there too!

32. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    74   2:19pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)   AverageBear says This is an easy one...It's called the sun. It dictates our weather, short-, medium-, and long-term climate changes. Again....the amount of solar radiation received by earth is not a secret. It's known to a very precise degree. The idea that global warming is being caused by the sun getting hotter is not supported by anything. It's a lie and a fraud and any honest person who attempted to track down the evidence for this is going to discover that.

33. Tim Aurora Follow Befriend 4 threads 57 comments

    75   2:56pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (3)   I am from Tea Party and do not believe in the following - Global warming - Evolution Theory by Darwin. - Earth goes around the sun. I do believe in - Global warming is a made up fact. If God wants to destroy us he does not need global warmimg. He can do it may other ways - Evolution Theory as described in Bible. It is another theory and is better than Darwin's theory of evolution - Galelio was wrong. Actually the whole universe revolves around earth.

34. errc Follow Befriend (7) 30 threads 1,220 comments 31 male Premium

    76   3:21pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   marcus says You know how kids sometimes put their fingers intheir ears and say Lalalalalalalalalal,...I can't hear you,lalalalalalal,.... What's the visual reading and reasoning version of that called ? Putting someone on ignore?

35. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    77   3:36pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says I'm thinking Alaska. There's gold there too! And Palin.

36. freak80 Follow Befriend (4) 52 threads 4,416 comments Corning, NY Premium

    78   3:38pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   iwog says Which fact was complete bullshit? He can't answer that. Don't think. Just Obey the Tripods.

37. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

    79   5:21pm Mon 9 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   clambo says Also, in one of my science endeavors we used chemicals in minute concentrations and believe me, 380ppm of something is very small concentration. Now markin is typical. He attacks me and my lack of "credentials" rather than argue my points. Are you serious? I specifically at length argued this very point. Here I'll post it again: MarkInSF says The low sounding concentration of CO2 is irrelevant. You could take out 90% of the N2 and O2 in the atmosphere, and the concentration of CO2 would go up about 10 fold to more like 4000 PPM. But it would not mean much change for the greenhouse effect, since N2 and O2 are transparent to infrared radiation. How much visible light does an inch of air block? Almost nothing. How much does 1000 inches of air block? Almost nothing. How much does a 1 millimeter thick piece of tinted glass block? Quite a bit. CO2 is the tinted glass. The concentration of CO2 compared to N2 and O2 is irrelevant because N2 and O2 don't block infrared light. All that matters is the amount of tinted glass which blocks visible light. All that matters is the amount of CO2 which blocks infrared. What you are saying amounts to: "There are million inches of air between me and the sun. And only a millimeter of this tinted glass in my sun glasses. Therefore the tinted glass could not possibly have a significant effect on the amount of light reaching my eyes,"

38. zzyzzx Follow Befriend (9) 416 threads 4,138 comments Baltimore, MD

    80   6:34am Tue 10 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike   http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures. In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row. Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun. "The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said. Solar Cycles Abdussamatov believes that changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets. Mars and Earth, for instance, have experienced periodic ice ages throughout their histories. "Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said. By studying fluctuations in the warmth of the sun, Abdussamatov believes he can see a pattern that fits with the ups and downs in climate we see on Earth and Mars.

39. Vaticanus Follow Befriend (1) 77 threads 1,120 comments

    81   7:27am Tue 10 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says leoj707 says Instead they should refocus their energy on a plan for themselves and their family of where they want to be and what they should be doing 30-40 years from now. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) there is very little information or recommendations about this type of planning. My plan is to stay in the Northeast. It'll be funny when people start moving back to the Northeast from the Sunbelt thanks to global warming. Hey Iwog, wanna start buying up cheap housing in upstate NY? It'll be even funnier hearing about how the winters get longer and deeper up north. Which is a very likely scenario regardless of your accepted dogma on "climate change"

40. rocketjoe79 Follow Befriend 1 threads 21 comments Lake of the Pines, CA

    82   8:25am Tue 10 Jul 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   wthrfrk80 says Does anyone know if there are scientific papers that try to quantify how much of the observed warming is directly due to the increased CO2 levels? Is that even possible to do, in an unbiased, scientific manner? My limited understanding of atmospheric science indicates it's a hugely complex problem. Even measuring temperature accurately isn't easy! See www.chaosmanor.com and search the subject. (This Jerry Pournelle's blog site - one of my best resources for non-traditional news and reasoned argument.) You'll find many excellent discussions and pointers to other sites. Oops! What was I thinking - "reasoned argument" - that's Crazy Talk.

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