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House prices have increased relative to median individual income


By EconPete   Follow   Thu, 26 Apr 2012, 12:49pm PDT   3,438 views   29 comments   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

What I don't like about the household income statistic is that it masks the fact that real individual median income has been falling for some time now. The fact that for most families both adults work in some form makes it seem like household incomes have been steady or on the rise over the last 60 years. In actuality, the wife has gradually been taking on more of a role in the income department. First, in the 50's women generally didn't work. Then, it was odd jobs or seasonal work in the 60’s. After that it was part time work. Next the woman worked full time at minimum wage or slightly better. Now, the woman is fully educated and makes damn near more than the man does. This tendency has upwardly skewed median household income in comparison to median individual income.

The point is that household income hides the fact that individuals, on a median basis, are falling behind their previous cohorts in regards to real income. The changing trend in female quality and quantity of output in the workforce over the last 40 years greatly distorts the comparison of median household income from 1970 to today!

When people compare individual household income today to 30 years ago it makes housing seem more affordable than it otherwise should be. If things got tough 30 years ago, the female could always increase her payable economic output to smooth over the rough times. Today, with both adults at their maximum income potentials, there is no room for upward mobility in home valuations due to increased income, due to more effort, from the under working spouse. Also, this tendency greatly leverages the current homebuyers. If one person is out of work, the home is gone! This makes for more risk in the housing market that the statistic “Median Household Income” cannot account for.

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CL   befriend   ignore   Thu, 26 Apr 2012, 1:19pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 1

Can't kids work? Bring on the new robber barons!

hanera   befriend   ignore   Thu, 26 Apr 2012, 4:50pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 2

What you describe is true globally. Is the price we paid for equality of sexes and a consequence of fiat money (aka rapid depreciation of currency or inflation). Long ago, my dad who didn't go to high school is able to take care of a family of seven. Now, a couple of graduate degree has a hard time taking care of a kid.

iwog   befriend   ignore   Fri, 27 Apr 2012, 1:06am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 3

CL says

Can't kids work? Bring on the new robber barons!

Almost here. The next time Republicans take over the government we'll probably see it.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_11/gop_targets_childlabor_laws033632.php

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Fri, 27 Apr 2012, 2:43pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 4

iwog says

Almost here. The next time Republicans take over the government we'll probably see it.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_11/gop_targets_childlabor_laws033632.php

Its a good idea... what do you have from a college grad when they interview... what references do you have .. what will they say about you... what makes you different from the next applicant ?

Do they take direction...
Do they work well with others...
Can they take inititive...
Are they timely...
Have they shown any leadership quality...
and many many questions just for entry level positions...

What are you going to talk about when you graduate with a degree ?

Small jobs like Flipping burgers, working in retail, or any othe job at 16 does add to your long term goals and career... Its not the end just the begining.

iwog   befriend   ignore   Fri, 27 Apr 2012, 2:48pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 5

thomas.wong1986 says

Small jobs like Flipping burgers, working in retail, or any othe job at 16 does add to your long term goals and career... Its not the end just the begining.

No one is talking about getting a job at 16. My son is getting his first job at 16. The article I posted has Newt Gingrich and other Republicans advocating children as young as 9 years old working in menial labor jobs.

Nice attempt at a straw man however.

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Fri, 27 Apr 2012, 3:05pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 6

iwog says

I posted has Newt Gingrich and other Republicans advocating children as young as 9 years old working in menial labor jobs.

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Fri, 27 Apr 2012, 3:12pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 7

What Newt really said regarding 9 year olds...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/19/gingrich-laws-preventing-child-labor-are-truly-stupid/

"Go out and talk to people who are really successful in one generation," Gingrich said. "They all started their first job at 9 to 14 years of age. They are selling newspapers, going door to door, washing cars. They were all making money at a very young age. What do we say to poor kids in poor neighborhoods? Don't do it. Remember all the stuff about not getting a hamburger-flipping job? Worst possible advice to give the poor children."

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Fri, 27 Apr 2012, 3:33pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 8

7 billionaires' first jobs

http://money.msn.com/how-to-invest/7-billionaires-first-jobs-investopedia.aspx?cp-documentid=27189130

Warren Buffett (pictured above) started working on his billion-dollar empire when he was a teenager. His first job, at age 13, was running a newspaper delivery business.

Oprah Winfrey, who seems to get better and richer with everything she does, got her start in a menial job at the grocery store next to her father's barbershop in Nashville, Tenn. She quickly made a move into broadcasting; at age 16

Bill Gates first gig... 13

We all know that starting as a newspaper boy or parking lot attendant doesn't promise you'll be a billionaire. What is interesting about the careers of these billionaires is that they discovered their passion at an early age, proving that following your passion can pay, sometimes in the billions.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly this 9 year old is breaking the labor laws...

&feature=related

B.A.C.A.H.   befriend   ignore   Fri, 27 Apr 2012, 3:59pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 9

the original poster's argument has been written into a book

http://www.amazon.com/The-Two-Income-Trap-Middle-Class-Parents/dp/0465090907/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335592767&sr=1-1

iwog   befriend   ignore   Sat, 28 Apr 2012, 4:27am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 10

thomas.wong1986 says

We all know that starting as a newspaper boy or parking lot attendant doesn't promise you'll be a billionaire. What is interesting about the careers of these billionaires is that they discovered their passion at an early age, proving that following your passion can pay, sometimes in the billions.

Wow you still don't get it or you're being intentionally disingenuous.

You think delivering newspapers an hour every morning and working in a sweat shop or a coal mine are the same argument?

Newt Gingrich and other Republicans are talking about repealing labor laws. The very same labor laws that ALREADY ALLOW children to work in all the jobs you mentioned. You've got an entire straw man factory running at full speed to try and defend your Republican assholes and you need to stop.

Gingrich: Laws preventing child labor are 'truly stupid'

RentingForHalfTheCost   befriend   ignore   Sat, 28 Apr 2012, 6:46am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 11

thomas.wong1986 says

"Go out and talk to people who are really successful in one generation," Gingrich said. "They all started their first job at 9 to 14 years of age. They are selling newspapers, going door to door, washing cars. They were all making money at a very young age. What do we say to poor kids in poor neighborhoods? Don't do it. Remember all the stuff about not getting a hamburger-flipping job? Worst possible advice to give the poor children."

The crazy thing I see in California is that jobs that were traditionally for kids are done by adults. Things like mowing lawns, delivering papers, baby sitting, etc. These were all jobs I did as soon as I realized I could.

It could be that parents are rightfully worried about a 9yr old going around knocking on doors. Where I grew up that was not a problem. Here, I'm afraid to go around asking strangers for anything. By creating an unsafe community we have basically stolen the learning jobs from the kids.

I agree with Gingrich, but the issue is to clean up the community and make it safer first. Even teenagers are worried about leaving their burger flipping jobs late a night and going to their cars. Shit, I used to walk home at 2am without a worry on my mind when I was 15. I do that in the BA now and I find myself looking over my shoulder a lot.

rooemoore   befriend   ignore   Sat, 28 Apr 2012, 8:13am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 12

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Where I grew up that was not a problem. Here, I'm afraid to go around asking strangers for anything. By creating an unsafe community we have basically stolen the learning jobs from the kids.

That's because you live in an area where there are rentals at low prices. This brings in a lot of riff-raff and trouble makers. ;)

RentingForHalfTheCost   befriend   ignore   Sat, 28 Apr 2012, 8:23am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 13

rowemoore says

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Where I grew up that was not a problem. Here, I'm afraid to go around asking strangers for anything. By creating an unsafe community we have basically stolen the learning jobs from the kids.

That's because you live in an area where there are rentals at low prices. This brings in a lot of riff-raff and trouble makers. ;)

Actually, I didn't mean my area, Foster City. I meant most of the areas around me. Millbrae, San Mateo, San Carlos, Burlingame, Brisbane.

You see all the areas where pricing of housing is crazy. I think the biggest crime in Foster City is not enough people using the lagoon system for recreational sports. :)

xenogear3   befriend   ignore   Sat, 28 Apr 2012, 9:37am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 14

I know that city.
People don't lock home and car.

.

.

.

Robbers take a few things if you leave door open.
They will trash you home / car if the door is locked.

As for the child labor law, just get rid all schools, and force children to work and pay tax.
This will balance the budget.

thunderlips11   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 2:50am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 15

EconPete says

When people compare individual household income today to 30 years ago it makes housing seem more affordable than it otherwise should be. If things got tough 30 years ago, the female could always increase her payable economic output to smooth over the rough times. Today, with both adults at their maximum income potentials, there is no room for upward mobility in home valuations due to increased income, due to more effort, from the under working spouse. Also, this tendency greatly leverages the current homebuyers. If one person is out of work, the home is gone! This makes for more risk in the housing market that the statistic “Median Household Income” cannot account for.

+1

Consumers are "All In" with no reserves; for a while they had access to easy credit, but now even that is gone.

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 11:00am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 16

iwog says

You think delivering newspapers an hour every morning and working in a sweat shop or a coal mine are the same argument?

Only pathic retards are using the argument like "Coal Mine"

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 11:10am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 17

Back in my high school.. Sunnyvale High...

We had classes like
Auto mechanics working on Hot Block V-8s..
Electronics working with O-scope and power suppliers.. with mega volts...
Plus...Plastics and Metal fabrications..
and as early as Jr High Wood Shop with bad ass band saws able to take an arm off in a second..

Pretty dangerous stuff by todays standards...but never heard of a single accident... that was a different California than today.

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 11:14am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 18

RentingForHalfTheCost says

I agree with Gingrich, but the issue is to clean up the community and make it safer first. Even teenagers are worried about leaving their burger flipping jobs late a night and going to their cars. Shit, I used to walk home at 2am without a worry on my mind when I was 15. I do that in the BA now and I find myself looking over my shoulder a lot

Sure in a safe enviroment with many partipating teens and supervised by multiple adults (rotating parents)... perhaps on weekends..

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 11:19am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 19

Gingrich is righ.. great name... Mouse Squad...

Hi, You’ve Reached Tech Support, This Is Your 12-Year-Old

Innovation Middle School seventh graders Micah Wells and Tony Tsogtbaatar provide tech support to their classmates as members of the Mouse Squad.

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/education/schooled/article_445baa4e-4f59-11e0-ac6a-001cc4c002e0.html

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 11:29am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 20

EconPete says

Then, it was odd jobs or seasonal work in the 70’s. After that it was part time work. Next the woman worked full time at minimum wage or slightly better. Now, the woman is fully educated and makes damn near more than the man does. This tendency has upwardly skewed median household income in comparison to median individual income.

They were already fully educated by the mid-late 70s and working in the early 80s.

Most notable around here, not listing many others who went into Corporate marketing, sales, MIS, and Accounting/Finance.

ASK Computers (Mt View, CA) was started in 1972 by Sandra Kurtzig in California. Sandra Kurtzig quit her job as a marketing specialist at General Electric and invested $2,000 of her savings to start the company in her apartment.

Sandy Lerner (born in 1955) was a co-founder of Cisco Systems (with then husband Leonard Bosack). She received her bachelor's degree in 1975 in political science from California State University, Chico, a master's degree in econometrics in 1977 from the Claremont Graduate School, and a master's degree in statistics and computer science in 1981 from Stanford University

tatupu70   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 11:43am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 21

thomas.wong1986 says

Only pathic retards are using the argument like "Coal Mine"

So exactly which jobs do you think 9 year old kids SHOULD be able to do that they aren't able to do now?

The ones you mention Buffet, Jobs, etc. doing are obviously legal already as none of them went to jail...

So, please share. What jobs should 9 year olds be doing?

thomas.wong1986   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 12:55pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 22

tatupu70 says

So, please share. What jobs should 9 year olds be doing?

Yes, this is all about preventing kids of 9 years from going down the COAL MINE !

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/taking-aim-at-child-labor-laws-01052012.html

iwog   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 3:10pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 23

thomas.wong1986 says

Yes, this is all about preventing kids of 9 years from going down the COAL MINE !

Maybe I misunderstood. Lets see......

Gingrich: "Laws preventing child labor are 'truly stupid'"

Nope, I didn't misunderstand anything. Why do you keep making excuses?

Carolyn C   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 3:56pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 24

If putting young children to work is so character building why isn't he offering up his own young offspring.

Carolyn C   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 3:58pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 25

The poor will pay their fair share of taxes when they are paid what belongs to them. A FAIR WAGE.

Carolyn C   befriend   ignore   Sun, 29 Apr 2012, 4:01pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 26

No professional works harder than those working hard manual labor.
The poor work plenty but are compensated little and blamed for everything.

Payoff2011   befriend   ignore   Mon, 30 Apr 2012, 7:15am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 27

EconPete says

it seem like household incomes have been steady or on the rise over the last 40 years. In actuality, the wife has gradually been taking on more of a role in the income department.

If you're looking at a 40 year timeframe... I'm female and have I've worked full time for about 38 years. Married 34 years ago, bought our first house 6 months later. We made our last house payment November 2011. Our first house was a little dumpy starter home. PITI was about half the price of a decent apartment. I won't use that as a cost of living comparison.

When you look at housing costs, you have to look at the whole payment. We paid 13% interest on our 1980 30-year mortgage. A few years later we refi'd to 15-year mortgage and the payment barely changed because interest rates had gone down so much. That PITI was about 1/3 of net income. If we were to purchase the home we live in today, at today's price and a proportional downpayment, PITI would be 23% of net on a 15 year loan. Obviously less than that on a 30 year loan.

Since you're referencing female contribution to household income to make your argument, maybe you should to use 60 years instead of 40 years for your timeframe. In my case, there has always been two incomes, and our housing cost has gone down over 34 years. I admit that maintenance has gone up, but you're not looking at that.

PockyClipsNow   befriend   ignore   Mon, 30 Apr 2012, 7:59am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 28

Why do democrats want to continue taking away a childs right to work? ( i love that line! lol)

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   befriend   ignore   Mon, 30 Apr 2012, 8:09pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 29

And Newt gave handjobs at a gas station near his house to rich guys getting out of big cars when he was 8. This is where he learned life lessons in developing a business. He continues to use the principles he learned in his rest-room handjob practice even today.

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