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Permalink Like Dislike (1) I can't help but wonder if the following statement is true:
"In religion and politics, facts don't matter. People believe what they WANT to believe, IN SPITE of the facts."
I'm not the first person to make this observation.
I'm guilty of "wanting to believe" too.
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Anyone ever see the movie "Idiocracy"? Where all the "news" mainly involves naked women and monster trucks?
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wthrfrk80 says
Makes you wonder........... People are sensitive about their sex lives I guess. I don't really care to much as to mine. I'm used to that kind of bullshit.
Stuff like that comes out of platos rear like you can't imagine. Or Dennis Millers mouth. I like Dennis ok. Hes fairly agile and is really amiable. I steal some of his stuff so. HAHAHA. Hes good no doubt. I have a real short list of comedians I like. Very few make that cut. You have to try at it.
Jay Leno is funny. They just won't cut him loose and let him do his thing.. No bad wordies. A lot of them are like that it ruins things. Its not the words mind you. You can't create. SEE. Good comedians understand that and hit the edges hard and curse at fido when at home. More Miller stuff.....
SeX IS SeX. If we really cared. We don't for the most part. If you want to see my pee pee, hey I'll show it to you just ask. Of course I would have to wonder why you were so interested in it. Maybe it has some rare earth. Or its a rare earth thingy. Maybe you want to scrape it I don't know. Stuff like that obviously dosen't bother us. Save it for the people of the Religion cults.
Way to much Jesus, Jesus in the company. Cause well Jesus and the company just couldn't make it without each other. ALL YOU TRUE BELIEVERS. Yep then there is the other group. Its getting really fucking redundent. Ask anyone that trys to teach kids with learning disorders. Redundancy in life just dosen't seem to occur to them in any conscious way.
Jesus is at your company Don't believe me go to work and start yelling this is all fucking, fucked up at work the first one to gasp and rat the guy out might be Mr. Atheist. Mr. Liberal. Mr. Hear no Evil. See no Evil. Speak no Evil. Hes not as stupid as one might think. He feels its how you survive.
We are for the most part are on the earth people. See. We don't come to the light. We just like the rest of the earth are uncontrollable for the most part. Which means we can all speak our minds there are far to many of us to kill. Which means that "one way" free speech talk you have been giving us all these years. Is BS. Your BS.
Until the internet showed up. Which you took a nice shot at just recently. Cause you didn't like what was being said. So we can live without certain things of course. Even if it disappeared. You would still have the problem of trying to rope and corral people like me. Cause the earth never shuts up. That you can never rope and corral.
Which boils down to intimidation of people. By many different means. Probing to find their weak spot. Which I really don't like. People that would otherwise speak their minds. However they might feel personally threatened. Have to parrot whatever they feel, keeps them safe and warm otherwise....... I don't really poo poo what other people say for the most part. I really don't like people being bullied. Some people are like that they see someone that is easily bullied and jump on it quick. Some of us really don't like that. Intimidation of people. Intimidation of the earth by carange which is really stupid to do. Is going to get you nothing but trouble. Your troubles are solved. Its easy enough. Why wait?
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marcus says
Yeah, I was unaware that there was an ounce of credibility there to destroy.
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wthrfrk80 says
You mean the documentary of our future written by time travelers?
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Honest Abe says
Please cite a case where this has happened, and it was not overturned upon appeal.
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thomas.wong1986 says
Paraphrased: it's no mystery that there are a lot of ignorant, dumbed down and propaganda-believing people in America.
marcus says
leoj707 says
LOL, which is why I conditionally qualified it with "may have".
I think he does have one valid point at least, which is that corruption in governance is at the heart of several problems in this country. But the few valid points that he has is surrounded with so many dishonest lies, it's hard to see clearly the credible points that he states.
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Honest Abe says
Example?
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The fast and furious, the New Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philly, B.J. Clintons indiscretions in the White House are several that come to mind.
Anything that could embarrass a liberal is covered up and concealed by the mainstream media, but joyfully exposed by FOX.
And of course it works exactly the opposite when a conservative embarrasses himself.
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leoj707 says
Certainly there are lawsuits where this happens. It's a game of getting the kind of jurors who will think, "the insurance company can afford to pay that." It could be malpractice or some sort of accident, of course it happens. In the jury selection process the lawyer for the plaintiff is going to try to get those type of jurors, and he or she may succeed.
I was fortunate to be excluded from a civil case which was a suit which was basically of an insurance company. I think I was excluded because of my education level. Each side gets to exclude a certain number. It is very much a game.
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marcus says
Just to be clear that you are agreeing with abe's comment that, "[T]he law says [the rich defendant] doesn't owe... [but] the poor plaintiff is a single mother, or a minority, or a homosexual, or a transgender, or a black, jewish, left handed, gay lesbian... so [the jury] find[s] in the plaintiffs favor".
So, in abe's scenario a poor transgendered black single mother trips over a laptop, on which Microsoft Windows is installed, breaking her arm. She sues Bill Gates, who legally has absolutely no liability. A jury finds in the woman's favor with a multimillion dollar judgment against Bill Gates.
I would love to see an example of a case like this.
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I was not agreeing with the specifics of what Abe said (which I didn't even understand), but rather that there are law suits where the objective is to get sympathetic jurors to bilk a rich person or their insurance company for an undeserved settlement.
It happens all the time. And the jurors in those cases (undeserved damages) are usually uneducated types who are thinking why not, they can afford it.
Where I dissagree with Abe, is I think this is okay, because it's the price we pay for being able to seek justice through litigation for legitimate wrongs done against us.
The game probably could be tweaked to be a little cleaner though.
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leoj707 says
Yes, that one.
As soon as life "evolves" to the point where it can discover the utter meaninglessness of its own existence, it will invent a way to stop reproducing. This is already happening (birth control, abortion, etc). The only people who will survive are the willfully ignorant and stupid.
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Marcus, you're right "it happens all the time". Right again: "the jurors think why not, they can afford it".
But its not ok. Any more than it would be for you to be in compliance with the law but get arrested and sentenced to hard time based on the juries "feelings". Yea, he's innocent, but he can afford to spend a few years behind bars. Seriously, you wouldn't say thats ok, would you?
You would not say "oh well, thats the price we pay for being able to seek justice". No, the punishment doesn't fit the crime - since there wasn't any crime. Nor would it be "justice".
I believe you would change your tune if you recieved a lawsuit tomorrow, with you as the defendent, demanding three million dollars from you, based on an allegation that was meritless. Of course you'll have to hire a lawyer to defend yourself...and the money clock starts ticking and it won't get turned off until: (1) you settle. The plaintiff could decide to accept $2 million and be done with it - IF you agreed.That would make it go away. Or (2) fight it to the bitter end. But in doing so you rack up attorney fees of, lets say $80,000...AND you still have to convince a jury that you are innocent of all charges.
But remember what you yourself said "jurors think, why not, Mr Marcus Moneybags can afford it".... and award the poor plaintiff the $3,000,000 that he or she demanded. Now you're (probably) financially ruined.
No rational adult can be ok with that scenario. But it happens every day - oh sure the dollar amounts differ, but the concept is exactly the same.
A lawsuit is a stick-up with an ink pen, rather than a pistol. In many cases its simply legal extortion.
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uomo_senza_nome says
Case in point, those on this site who still try to argue that Obama was born in Kenya and that his birth certificate is fake.
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1210506#comment-811764
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uomo_senza_nome says
LOL!
LOL no 2.
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uomo_senza_nome says
Propaganda No. 1
Ratigan Goes Nuts: Accuses Tea Party People who Want to 'Kill Blacks and Jews'
Propaganda No 2. Chris Matthews
During MSNBC's coverage of the Potomac primary, Matthews had this to say about then presidential candidate Barack Obama:“
I have to tell you, you know, it's part of reporting this case, this election, the feeling most people get when they hear Barack Obama's speech. My, I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often.”
This led some on the political right to assert that both he and MSNBC were biased toward Obama.
On November 6, 2008, he was a guest on the MSNBC television program Morning Joe, where he stated, "I want to do everything I can to make this thing work, this new presidency work." Host Joe Scarborough asked if that was his job as a journalist. "Yeah, that’s my job. My job is to help this country," Matthews said.
On December 1, 2009, preceding Obama's speech announcing a troop increase in Afghanistan, Matthews critiqued the president for choosing the United States Military Academy as his venue, referring to it as "the enemy camp." Soon after, Matthews apologized for his remarks saying, "[To] the cadets, their parents, former cadets, and everyone who cares about this country and those who defend it: I used the wrong words and worse than that I said something that is just not right and for that I deeply apologize."
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Chris Matthews defends the terrorist William Ayers and misquotes him..
He thinks that there is a difference in values between an anti-war bomber and an anti-black pro Klan bomber. So according to Chris, it is OK to set bombs and possibly kill people, or not OK but in Matthews mind you are better than a KKK bomber because they are racist.
&feature=player_embedded#!
what Bill Ayers actually said
”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.” — from No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives, New York Times, September 11, 2001
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Honest Abe says
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45208205/ns/politics-more_politics/t/fast-furious-holder-expresses-regret-border-agents-death/#.T3L1v9Vc1fs
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504564_162-20010581-504564.html
I'm not even going to bother looking for articles about Clinton because we both know all networks covered the Monica Lewinsky scandal to death.
Do you have any examples that aren't total fabricated bullshit on your part?
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Honest Abe says
Yes, this is usually with insurance companies of corporations or corporations themselves. The cases where it's unfair can be appealed (although that costs legal fees). And they won't likely get so lucky in the jury selection process twice in a row.
Most of the time, the damages or settlements are deserved. So I would still argue the imperfections are simply the cost of the system. Look at fracking which can damage the water table of surrounding areas. Without the potential of litigation, what's to keep drillers from doing terrible damage ?
It's not just about deserved compensation or damages in cases where individuals or entities are hurt. IT's about motivating decent behavior - by putting a higher cost on bad behavior.
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Marcus - the correct way to put a higher cost on bad behavior is: LOSER PAYS. If the defendent individual or corperation is guilty, yes there should be consequences. BUT, if its a frivolous lawsuit, the plaintiff should pay all costs of both sides for the meritless, waste of time lawsuit. That alone would go a long way in fixing up our screwed up legal system.
Iwog:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/driving-the-news-fox-covering-fast-furious-10-times-more-than-msnbc-and-cnn/
As I said, I'm not a fan of FOX News - but come on. 10 X's less coverage on mainstreet media is not covering up or concealing the news? Give me a break.
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Honest Abe says
Really? 10 times because some stupid propaganda brainwashing website that you pulled up on Google says so?
Even if true, all it proves is that Newscorp, acting as the propaganda wing of the Republican party, has decided to beat this dead horse into a fine slurry (even when there's no new developments) because people like you will eat it up and claim the rest of the media is biased.
How about this: You're wrong until you can actually provide real support for your assertions. As far as the general media giving Bill Clinton a pass on his White House blow jobs, I think that's one of the most blind ignorant lies you've ever uttered here. The media.....ALL media.....was saturated with it.
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Thomas,
Did I say CNN and MSNBC don't do mass propaganda? :-)
Manufacturing Consent - The political economy of mass media .
Heck, even NPR spews propaganda. There's not a single mainstream news site that actually reports the truth.
If I were to say some big channel actually speaks closer to truth, that would be RT. (Russia Today).
As for Honest Abe spewing BS about Clinton scandal coverage, I am with iwog. Every single news channel had a field day covering it. That was all there was for nearly 2 years in the US at the time.
Doesn't matter if it is neo-con or a liberal mainstream media channel, most of what they say is propaganda.
My first rule: I don't believe anything that the Government tells me. And neither do I believe anything I'm told by the media, who, in the case of the Gulf War, functioned as little more than unpaid employees of the Defense Department, and who, most of the time, operate as unofficial public relations agency for the government and industry.
I don't believe in any of them. And I have to tell you, folks, I don't really believe very much in my country either. I don't get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded.
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Iwog, the news is not necessarily the truth. You need to read between the lies. Truth is treason in the empire of lies. What would our country be like if we had leaders with integrity?
Would the government have stolen the silver out of our coinage?
Would our government steal from its own citizens via inflation?Would our government spend more money than it takes in, passing the bill on to other generations?
Would our government wage endless war and participate in empire building?
Would our government murder its own citizens?
Would our government violate its own set of laws with impunity?
These are the things that most people are upset about, but you seem to support the decisions of government regardless how harmful, irresponsible or toxic they may be.
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uomo_senza_nome says
+1
I found it interesting that many US venues wouldn't accept RT advertising.
uomo_senza_nome says
Yep. Everyone from Matthews to van Sustren (back when she was at CNN) covered it 24-7. It was like OJ.
uomo_senza_nome says
One word: Iran.
(EDIT: Removed rant to keep thread on topic)
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thunderlips11 says
LOL I'm not surprised. Lauren Lyster's Capital Account show is quite educative IMHO. Recently she had Bill Black. She has also interviewed Reggie Middleton, Yves Smith, Janet Tavakoli, Edward Harrison - all very good analysts, but hardly ever appear in MSM.
Honest Abe says
I partly agree with Honest Abe. I think iwog gives the Government more credit than it deserves. I'm sure he sees the problems with big private corporations who hijack the political process.
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uomo_senza_nome says
Bullshit.
In this country, we use wealth as a primary measure of success. By that measure, you have to conclude Fox News has been VERY successful in accomplishing the goals Rupert Murdoch set out for it.
You MSNBC weenies can say you're better. I wonder if that's what Steve Burke was thinking when Comcast took over NBC Universal and the new org chart came from his office without Phil Griffin's name on it.
It seems to me the argument could be made that not only did Fox News help to shape public opinion on the healthcare bill, it has also carried its end of the log fairly well in getting Obama defeated in November. You just watch and see if that doesn't happen.
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rootvg says
Truth hurts. Live with it.
rootvg says
Explains why USA had the largest housing bubble in the history of mankind, because after all wealth = debt in the modern economy.
rootvg says
Of course, they have been extremely successful in brainwashing people . Did I say they weren't successful? They're agenda pushers and extremely successful at that.
rootvg says
LOL I'm not. As this comment should clearly show.
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rootvg says
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leo, ROTFL -- loved it.
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What caused the housing bubble was: (1) the Fed's manipulation of interest rates to an artificially low rate, and (2) Carter's Community Investment Act, aided, abetted and exacerbated by Clinton to completely gut lending requirements and standards.
As a direct consequence, millions of non-qualified first time buyers entered the market, causing prices to skyrocket (supply and demand caused by CRA, combined with artificially low interest rates caused by the Fed). That sent ripples upwards, causing move up buyers (in all price ranges) and vacation home buyers to pay higher and higher prices, again due to supply and demand and artificially low interest rates.
That was the start of the feeding frenzy. It continued growing until it finally crumbled under its own weight.
Kind of what's happening with our own government...it'll continue to grow until it collapses under its own weight. It is unsustainable...but heck, lets not make any drastic changes, lets keep the status quo, and kick the can down the road some more, and let someone else deal with it. That seems to be the current mentality of both parties.
Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty, its our only hope.
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Try to not watch the news. I know it is very hard to resist because it is addictive in a way. But it's all propaganda, lies, and junk, and I believe it's very toxic to our health. I think the 24 hour news mania is one of the main reasons so many people are depressed and take anti- depressants. Who cares what all those pundits think? Your opinion is more valid than any of theirs because you're not a rotten paid shill.
Cancel cable if you dare and buy a season of Kung Fu to watch. You'll be much happier I think.
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Zak - Great advice! Bravo. I think we get caught up in the drama of it all and it becomes obsessive.
What I want to guard against, for myself, is not to become complacent while the crazies are busy destroying our freedoms and our country. Good post.
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rootvg says
We do? The United States damn near became a communist country because Robber Barons of the industrial revolution were making living conditions nearly intolerable. Wealth was used as a primary measure of how sick our country was.
It was only the intervention of Republican Teddy Roosevelt that saved this country from an armed revolt. In fact there were actual wars between unions and corporations conducted with firearms.
Propaganda is never a measure of anything other than dishonesty and corruption. Newscorp is a national disgrace.
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Honest Abe says
You've been utterly destroyed on this point more times than I can remember. You always disappear, then reappear weeks later with the same corrupt ignorant argument.
You're wrong, you've been repeatedly proven wrong, and your inability to learn has been showcased yet again.
What caused the housing bubble was the free market and the disconnect between the source of cash and the ultimate destination of cash. This was ONLY possible in an unregulated free market..........the same free market you worship.
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iwog says
Newscorp is a national disgrace. Fine, have it your way.
Did you know MSNBC hasn't earned its cost of capital for years? Do you know what happens when an entity loses as much money for as long as MSNBC has? They had a format change about three years ago and I'm thinking there's either another one of those coming or maybe Comcast will simply sell it off. If they can't sell it off, they'll shut the doors.
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iwog says
And I think it's time for the same kind of thing: a Teddy Rossevelt. We don't even need to go as far as Franklin Roosevelt.
I fear we're headed to a point where we get more "actual wars" in this country.
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iwog says
Yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre
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rootvg says
That's the problem with "news" being a for-profit entity. The "truth" is reduced to "what gets the best ratings."
Ever see the South Park episode called "The Quest for Ratings"?
Then again, I don't really care for "state controlled" media either. Any news outlet can become propaganda.
I guess the only way to get anything close to "the truth" is to seek information from a variety of sources.
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And don't forget the Battle of Homestead, PA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike
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rootvg says
Really? Maybe they are going for accuracy instead of playing to hatred, prejudice, and greed. Before cable, a news department was considered a necessary evil to lend legitimacy to a network and was almost always a justifiable loss on the books.
It sounds like you're rooting for your team instead of making a rational argument for why profitability means anything. It certianly doesn't mean that Newscorp is anything more than a pathetic outlet for right-wing sewage.
Cigarette companies are very profitable. So is the mob.